New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[HopsAreGood]

Calcium is what's most beneficial to the mash, so you should add most of your gypsum and calcium chloride there. Everything else can go in the boil. I don't use much Epsom salt but I hold my NaCl for boil and put most of my CaCl and gypsum in the mash. The only downside is having to remember to do all your boil additions which I have forgotten once or twice. I also usually add some more acid to the boil for hazy IPAs to try to get the KO ph lower. I have some KCl that I bought awhile back meaning to experiment with and have been too lazy to even get it out yet.

I’ve been putting all four of these in my mash, and calculating exactly to the numbers I want, for probably the last 30 or so brews. I’ll try splitting them up how you suggest and see if I can notice any kind of difference. I usually start with about 7.25 gallons (full volume) and have about 5.75 in the kettle. So I’ll have to do Two separate calculations of the different water volumes.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I’ve been putting all four of these in my mash, and calculating exactly to the numbers I want, for probably the last 30 or so brews. I’ll try splitting them up how do you suggest and see if I can notice any kind of difference. I usually start with about 7.25 gallons (full volume) and have about 5.75 in the kettle. So I’ll have to do Two separate calculations of the different water volumes.

Yeah, I honestly don't know how much of a difference it makes. I've just gotten into the habit of doing it. Once in awhile I try to test different variables like that, problem is I have brewing ADD and hardly ever can bring myself to do the same recipe repeatedly to isolate and test different variables like that.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Yeah, I honestly don't know how much of a difference it makes. I've just gotten into the habit of doing it. Once in awhile I try to test different variables like that, problem is I have brewing ADD and hardly ever can bring myself to do the same recipe repeatedly to isolate and test different variables like that.

Brewing ADD is real. I’ve Had strong intentions numerous times of brewing the same beer over and over and over, while switching out only one variable, and have probably never done it once. Oh well

 

[HopsAreGood]

New hop product introduced by Barth Haas: LUPOMAX™ | Haas

Seems to be something in between T90 and Cryo pellets as the advice is to use 70% of what you would use when using T90 pellets, while with cryo pellets it's more to use 50% of the normal amount.

Just ordered a pound each of the Citra, mosaic, and Sabro.

 

[Hannabrew]

Seems like the lupo is the same cost as cryo so what is the advantage of you have to use more than cryo?

 

[HopsAreGood]

I don’t know. I’m just a sucker for new products. I’ll try it out and see how it goes.

 

[Dgallo]

Seems like the lupo is the same cost as cryo so what is the advantage of you have to use more than cryo?

Where does it say you have to use more of this than cryo?

Im reading it as you CAN use more of this in your total hopbill, getting more flavor without the the astringency you would if using a similar amount of cryo

 

[HopsAreGood]

It’s pretty confusing to me to be honest...it does come across as very similar to cryo in where they recommend using 50% by weight and with these they recommend using 70% by weight.

They use the descriptors of consistency and reliability over and over. I watched the video twice and I’m still a little confused but whatever, it was literally released today so I’m sure there will feedback once people get their hands on it.

 

[BeerFst]

It's not the same cost. Those are 2oz packs on YVH for the same cost as 1oz of Cryo (assuming $5). Using the suggested usage rates, that 1oz cryo = 2 oz pellets, 2oz lupo = 2.8oz pellets

I am also reading it as @Dgallo where i would use the same dry hop rate as my recipe using normal pellets and get an "extra" 1.4X benefit for the same loss rate. If I was a big brewery without a centrifuge and wanted to reduce my overhead, maybe i would reduce the hops by the 30%.

Lupo seems to fill the dry hop gap, where incognito is intended for whirlpool.

also yet to be determined if, like cryo, you need to pair lupo with some normal T90, but I'm guessing that's where the 20% green material comes from (70-50=20, based on equivalency rate)

 

[stickyfinger]

If I normally use 12 oz of t90 pellets for dry hop, would a 6 oz dry hop of cryo taste the same? What is the reason for using these concentrated hop products? Can you add some of them at least in place of t90 to get more flavor without the vegetable matter? why avoid the vegetable matter other than wort savings? on a homebrew scale, i can just brew a little more wort to compensate for hop losses. I guess my question is are there reasons to use cryo (or maybe lupo) that go beyond the savings in wort. i haven't used cryo much obviously. i can get amazing prices on t90 and i seem to be able to use a ton of it and still love the beer. maybe i'm missing something.

holy crap, i can't believe the intense flavor on this Idaho 7 ipa i brewed. damn, it's a strong hop!

 

[couchsending]

Cryo is a much more resinous, oily taste/aroma as compared to the same hop in T-90 format.

if you care about haze cryo hopped beers will have less “haze” than those hopped with regular T-90. The polyphenol content is much lower in Cryo as it’s found in the bracht of the hops which Cryo has less of.

I think Cryo is interesting and can add a bit of complexity when used in smaller portions of a hop bill. I personally don’t like it in large amounts.

 

[emr25]

I’m interested in trying a single-hopped Citra NE IPA with a combination of T90, Lupo, and Cryo. Dry hop with 2oz of each, which is ~equivalent to 8.85oz T90 (using 70% factor for Lupo and 50% for Cryo).

Aroma and flavor complexity using all 3 varieties would be interesting, especially in direct comparison to a batch using 100% T90.

 

[Beerdrinker85]

Any thoughts on this one? It’s obviously a little cheaper.

https://www.homebrewing.org/Cannula...MIn-m2m73L6gIVzdSzCh1jvwNwEAsYBCABEgLz8fD_BwE

Cryo is a much more resinous, oily taste/aroma as compared to the same hop in T-90 format.

if you care about haze cryo hopped beers will have less “haze” than those hopped with regular T-90. The polyphenol content is much lower in Cryo as it’s found in the bracht of the hops which Cryo has less of.

I think Cryo is interesting and can add a bit of complexity when used in smaller portions of a hop bill. I personally don’t like it in large amounts.

I am about to dry hop my idaho7/citra/mosaic and never used cryo before. I got 5 oz of cryo citra/mosaic/amarillo. How do you suggest me to DH my 6gal because I was about to go for a first DH 2oz citra/mosaic t90.. second DH 3 days later with 1oz of cryo citra and 1oz of cryo mosaic.

 

[Frieds]

I’m interested in trying a single-hopped Citra NE IPA with a combination of T90, Lupo, and Cryo. Dry hop with 2oz of each, which is ~equivalent to 8.85oz T90 (using 70% factor for Lupo and 50% for Cryo).

Aroma and flavor complexity using all 3 varieties would be interesting, especially in direct comparison to a batch using 100% T90.

I’ve got a single hop citra hazy fermenting right now with T90 & Cryo. The samples so far are tasting pretty good.

 

[couchsending]

I’m interested in trying a single-hopped Citra NE IPA with a combination of T90, Lupo, and Cryo. Dry hop with 2oz of each, which is ~equivalent to 8.85oz T90 (using 70% factor for Lupo and 50% for Cryo).

Aroma and flavor complexity using all 3 varieties would be interesting, especially in direct comparison to a batch using 100% T90.

Isn’t Lupo just the HAAS version of cryo? Doubt you’d notice much difference over just Cryo and regular.

Using leaf, Cryo, T-90, and American Noble versions of the same hop at different stages of the process might give you a lot more complexity...

 

[Dgallo]

It’s pretty confusing to me to be honest...it does come across as very similar to cryo in where they recommend using 50% by weight and with these they recommend using 70% by weight.

They use the descriptors of consistency and reliability over and over. I watched the video twice and I’m still a little confused but whatever, it was literally released today so I’m sure there will feedback once people get their hands on it.

Here is a bulleted response from YVH on how LUPOMAX differs from cryo, Seems to suggest they are more or less the same, however, HAAS bred or uses specific hop lots to ensure higher and more consistent quality with a truer to variety profile.

 

[emr25]

Isn’t Lupo just the HAAS version of cryo? Doubt you’d notice much difference over just Cryo and regular.

Using leaf, Cryo, T-90, and American Noble versions of the same hop at different stages of the process might give you a lot more complexity...

I think there are enough differences to add complexity (even if it just comes down to being processed from different farms / lots). It’d be even better if they brought Incognito to the US homebrew market.

 

[Rainy]

The cryo vs lupomax branding is a bit confusing, as cryo (property of YCH) mainly refers to the technique that is used to make this product. Morevover, brewers that can select can have a specific lot cryo pelletized. I also think that the cryo process of YCH is patented.
So with cryo pellet of a certain hop variety you could still get quite different characteristics depending on the lot you chose. We as homebrewers get maybe more a cryo pellet that is a result of a blend of different lots.

Lupomax on the other hand seems to be a combination of the technique of removing plant material (not really clear how) and the fact that they guarantee year to year consistency, so they need to be blending different lots to achieve this. I wonder if lupomax is then the same for every brewer in the world, or if big brewers still have the possibility to select a lot which are then "lupomax pelletized"

So I think for us homebrewers it might not make such a big difference apart from the different dosing needed (50% vs 70%), but for professional brewers these are quite different products if they can't select for Lupomax, as it takes away a big part of how they can distinguish themselves from other brewers in terms of hoppy beers, namely by hop selection.

One of the Hop and Brew School podcasts explains quite well the whole cryo process and the fact that brewers can select their lots for cryo.
The Lupomax information is for now mainly branding and they do not give a lot of details about their processes.

Edit: It's also quite a different philosphy behind it if you thin of it. Cryo still seems to embrace the fact that hops are an agricultural product and that it can vary from year to year and lot to lot. Lupomax is more the industrial mindset of always wanting to deliver consistent results. So to me it seems they are aiming for quite different markets.

 

[emr25]

The cryo vs lupomax branding is a bit confusing, as cryo (property of YCH) mainly refers to the technique that is used to make this product. Morevover, brewers that can select can have a specific lot cryo pelletized. I also think that the cryo process of YCH is patented.
So with cryo pellet of a certain hop variety you could still get quite different characteristics depending on the lot you chose. We as homebrewers get maybe more a cryo pellet that is a result of a blend of different lots.

Lupomax on the other hand seems to be a combination of the technique of removing plant material (not really clear how) and the fact that they guarantee year to year consistency, so they need to be blending different lots to achieve this. I wonder if lupomax is then the same for every brewer in the world, or if big brewers still have the possibility to select a lot which are then "lupomax pelletized"

So I think for us homebrewers it might not make such a big difference apart from the different dosing needed (50% vs 70%), but for professional brewers these are quite different products if they can't select for Lupomax, as it takes away a big part of how they can distinguish themselves from other brewers in terms of hoppy beers, namely by hop selection.

One of the Hop and Brew School podcasts explains quite well the whole cryo process and the fact that brewers can select their lots for cryo.
The Lupomax information is for now mainly branding and they do not give a lot of details about their processes.

Edit: It's also quite a different philosphy behind it if you thin of it. Cryo still seems to embrace the fact that hops are an agricultural product and that it can vary from year to year and lot to lot. Lupomax is more the industrial mindset of always wanting to deliver consistent results. So to me it seems they are aiming for quite different markets.

I think a combination of both may be very appealing to brewers of all sizes. Year-to-year consistency in AA, total oils, and flavor compounds (Lupo) for hot side additions and even whirlpool, with brewers getting to add their “personal touch” with hand selected T90 / Cryo in the dry hop (where a majority of flavor is derived in these uber hopped hazy styles).

 

[BeerFst]

One of the Hop and Brew School podcasts explains quite well the whole cryo process and the fact that brewers can select their lots for cryo.
The Lupomax information is for now mainly branding and they do not give a lot of details about their processes.

Edit: It's also quite a different philosphy behind it if you thin of it. Cryo still seems to embrace the fact that hops are an agricultural product and that it can vary from year to year and lot to lot. Lupomax is more the industrial mindset of always wanting to deliver consistent results. So to me it seems they are aiming for quite different markets.

I wonder if they let you choose your lots to be made into incognito, or is that a blended "all for one" product as well?

 

[Rainy]

I am quite sure that Barth Haas will provide more detailed information about the processes behind Lupomax when asked, based on how open they were about their processes and products during the dry hop boot camp webinars.

 

[Dgallo]

Edit: It's also quite a different philosphy behind it if you thin of it. Cryo still seems to embrace the fact that hops are an agricultural product and that it can vary from year to year and lot to lot. Lupomax is more the industrial mindset of always wanting to deliver consistent results. So to me it seems they are aiming for quite different markets.

I think you’re you missing something here. T45 pellets were available long before ych releases cryo hops. Their cryogenic process improved the T45 pellet from being a less wasteful (cut losses) way to bitter to an aroma and flavor product. HAAS has taken this concept and improved on the consistency of high quality. This is a huge thing for all, it’s not two different markets. All brewers, professional and HBer do so many things to produce high quality and consistent beer. This product is going to be a game changer if the consistency proves true, especially for the upper echelon. No longer with TH Haze be Amazing or just ok.

 

[Dgallo]

I wonder if they let you choose your lots to be made into incognito, or is that a blended "all for one" product as well?

I’m going to say no, or at least not for a little while. But I have a strong feeling incognito will be available to us this fall. IDK If you’re aware but HAAS has become a huge investor in Yakima Valley Hop this past September and that’s why YVH has sole rights to LUPOMAX. That tells me when Incognito is release at a HB size, YVH will be the only ones selling it

 

[emr25]

I’m going to say no, or at least not for a little while. But I have a strong feeling incognito will be available to us this fall. IDK If you’re aware but HAAS has become a huge investor in Yakima Valley Hop this past September and that’s why YVH has sole rights to LUPOMAX. That tells me when Incognito is release at a HB size, YVH will be the only ones selling it

From the horse’s mouth (via a comment on IG), “we are currently working on a homebrew size unit of INCOGNITO, but more R&D is required so there currently isn’t an ETA.”

 

[BeerFst]

I’m going to say no, or at least not for a little while. But I have a strong feeling incognito will be available to us this fall. IDK If you’re aware but HAAS has become a huge investor in Yakima Valley Hop this past September and that’s why YVH has sole rights to LUPOMAX. That tells me when Incognito is release at a HB size, YVH will be the only ones selling it

That's what I thought as well, no lot selection for incognito. YVH noted a "we've got some exciting things coming your way this month" on IG, so I was hoping that incognito was next. That said, it would make a lot of sense to release with the new crop year.

And yeah, as soon as that partnership was announced I was asking on IG when they would get incognito.

I am still sort of debating ordering lupo, but I think I'll wait until next crop year, which really isn't that far away anyway.

 

[Rainy]

I’m going to say no, or at least not for a little while. But I have a strong feeling incognito will be available to us this fall. IDK If you’re aware but HAAS has become a huge investor in Yakima Valley Hop this past September and that’s why YVH has sole rights to LUPOMAX. That tells me when Incognito is release at a HB size, YVH will be the only ones selling it

I did not know about the connection between YVH and Haas. Great to see though that both YVH/Bart Haas and YCH have been investing so much in new hop products and processing techniques in order to provide better and more consistent hop flavour and aroma.
In general, I am also impressed with how both YVH/Bart Haas and YCH really take the effort to educate their customers and how they don't forget about the home brewer in all of this.
With all the webinars available online and the hop and brew school podcast, the hop companies provide a huge amount of detailed information about hops and how to use them, which would otherwise only be known by professional brewers.
And then there's still other resources like master brewers podcast and CB&B podcast.

The problem with all these different products becoming available to us home brewers though , is that it becomes even harder to decide where to use each product. Although it's always nice to have "more colors to paint with".

 

[Dgallo]

That's what I thought as well, no lot selection for incognito. YVH noted a "we've got some exciting things coming your way this month" on IG, so I was hoping that incognito was next. That said, it would make a lot of sense to release with the new crop year.

And yeah, as soon as that partnership was announced I was asking on IG when they would get incognito.

I am still sort of debating ordering lupo, but I think I'll wait until next crop year, which really isn't that far away anyway.

IF they still have it Available when they release the 2020 AUS & NZ hops, I’ll grab a few 2oz packs for a test run

 

[braindead]

Verdant released a recipe yesterday and a lot of useful info.
Do you guys soft crash to 15 before dry hopping??

"Do not hunt for biotransformation, wait for the ferment to finish, make sure it passes a forced diacetyl test, soft crash to 15 and then dry hop. You will avoid hop creep this way"

 

[Dgallo]

Verdant released a recipe yesterday and a lot of useful info.
Do you guys soft crash to 15 before dry hopping??

"Do not hunt for biotransformation, wait for the ferment to finish, make sure it passes a forced diacetyl test, soft crash to 15 and then dry hop. You will avoid hop creep this way"

Colder than that for me. I’m at the equivalent of 10*c

 

[braindead]

So you don't do an early biotransformation dry hop then?
At what temp do you get suck back into the fermenter?