New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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BrewinSoldier

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Braufessor,

Do you mind posting your current grain bill.. I am going to make this probably tomorrow and see that you mentioned now using 15% flaked grains.. In the original recipe I am only seeing 8%. Thank you for the recipe and I look forward to brewing it.. I am on the west coast so get Pliny quite a bit.. Then I got my hands on some heady tipper and was blown away. When I thought things couldn't get any better I was able to try a can of Julius and fell in love.. Sucks that its almost impossible to get so now I'd like to make one that I can have on tap year round.
 
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Braufessor,

Do you mind posting your current grain bill.. I am going to make this probably tomorrow and see that you mentioned now using 15% flaked grains.. In the original recipe I am only seeing 8%. Thank you for the recipe and I look forward to brewing it.. I am on the west coast so get Pliny quite a bit.. Then I got my hands on some heady tipper and was blown away. When I thought things couldn't get any better I was able to try a can of Julius and fell in love.. Sucks that its almost impossible to get so now I'd like to make one that I can have on tap year round.
My current Grain Bill:

I aim for about 1.060 OG

40% 2 Row
40% Golden Promise
8% Flaked Oats
4% Flaked Barley
4% Weyerman Wheat
2% Flaked Wheat
2% Honey malt
 

jpb2716

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My current Grain Bill:

I aim for about 1.060 OG

40% 2 Row
40% Golden Promise
8% Flaked Oats
4% Flaked Barley
4% Weyerman Wheat
2% Flaked Wheat
2% Honey malt

Hey Brau,

I see that you specifically called out German wheat? Have you tried this grain bill with American wheat? Just curious what the difference between them was.

Thanks!
 
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Hi Guys,

Kegged and gassed this a week ago today. As I noted above, I didn't do a dry hop keg for the second dry hop round - rather I put them in the serving keg.

I sampled it two days later, and it was offensively bitter, dank, sharp, etc. Clearly it needed time to soften. Monday, it was better, but more time is needed.

Question: Should I remove the dry hops out of the serving keg? I have never keg dry hopped before, so not sure if they are better taken out. I am not thrilled about exposing the keg to oxygen, but if I work slowly/carefully I should be able to mitigate disturbing the CO2 layer and will re-flush again after. Thanks!
 

Bowtiebrewery

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Yes remove the hops out of the serving keg... I only leave them in (When I do this) maximum 4 days. You could start getting some vegital flavors in there.


Oh and here is mine
 

jpb2716

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Hi Guys,

Kegged and gassed this a week ago today. As I noted above, I didn't do a dry hop keg for the second dry hop round - rather I put them in the serving keg.

I sampled it two days later, and it was offensively bitter, dank, sharp, etc. Clearly it needed time to soften. Monday, it was better, but more time is needed.

Question: Should I remove the dry hops out of the serving keg? I have never keg dry hopped before, so not sure if they are better taken out. I am not thrilled about exposing the keg to oxygen, but if I work slowly/carefully I should be able to mitigate disturbing the CO2 layer and will re-flush again after. Thanks!

Any time that I've keg dry hopped, I've waited 2 weeks of dry hop time before tasting. My thinking is since I'm dry hopping at serving temperature, the aromatic qualities of the hops will take longer to come out than if I had dry hopped at room temperature. Also, I always use a good quality dry hop sock from Wilserbrewer. These tremendously cut down on hop particles escaping the bag. Lastly, I never remove my keg dry hops till the keg is kicked. I've had hops in the keg for up to 6 weeks and never have experienced the bitter, dank and sharp qualities that you are experiencing. I'd give it some more time before tasting again.

Also, I've never experienced any vegetal flavors from having hops in the keg that long. From what I understand, the vegetal flavors emerge if the hops are exposed too long at room temperature but would take months at serving temperature.
 
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Braufessor

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Hey Brau,

I see that you specifically called out German wheat? Have you tried this grain bill with American wheat? Just curious what the difference between them was.

Thanks!

I just put it in there because I always got a lot of questions about "what kind of wheat" when I just listed "wheat." I don't think it makes a huge difference.

To be honest, I think the "key" is getting 15-20% flaked and wheat in some capacity. I use a blend because I picked up a lot of flaked grains from a couple brew stores that closed.... You could probably simplify it and just use flaked oats or flaked oats + some wheat.

Maybe the variety gives it some complexity and other aspects.... but, I would not go so far as to declare that for sure.:mug:
 
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Hi Guys,

Kegged and gassed this a week ago today. As I noted above, I didn't do a dry hop keg for the second dry hop round - rather I put them in the serving keg.

I sampled it two days later, and it was offensively bitter, dank, sharp, etc. Clearly it needed time to soften. Monday, it was better, but more time is needed.

Question: Should I remove the dry hops out of the serving keg? I have never keg dry hopped before, so not sure if they are better taken out. I am not thrilled about exposing the keg to oxygen, but if I work slowly/carefully I should be able to mitigate disturbing the CO2 layer and will re-flush again after. Thanks!
Yes - I would not leave the hops in the serving keg. Just pull it out and then purge head space.... it will be fine. What did you use for hops?
 

lilbova3

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Hi Guys,

Kegged and gassed this a week ago today. As I noted above, I didn't do a dry hop keg for the second dry hop round - rather I put them in the serving keg.

I sampled it two days later, and it was offensively bitter, dank, sharp, etc. Clearly it needed time to soften. Monday, it was better, but more time is needed.

Question: Should I remove the dry hops out of the serving keg? I have never keg dry hopped before, so not sure if they are better taken out. I am not thrilled about exposing the keg to oxygen, but if I work slowly/carefully I should be able to mitigate disturbing the CO2 layer and will re-flush again after. Thanks!
I have left hops in the keg on my last two batches and why they did seem ever so slightly harsh at the beginning, they certainly mellow. I'm scared to open the keg up to pull them as well. I only throw in a few ounces, bagged and tied to the keg handles with floss, and let them sit until it's emptied. I'll only have them hanging halfway down so they are only in the beer until the keg is a little less than half full. I figure the prolonged contact time is ok because of the temp that they are sitting at.

Would it be best to remove them? Probably. But I'll let them stay. I think the aroma stays longer as well.
 

BrewinSoldier

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Yes remove the hops out of the serving keg... I only leave them in (When I do this) maximum 4 days. You could start getting some vegital flavors in there.


Oh and here is mine
Pure beauty in a glass.. Did you use the original recipe that OP posted or something else?

I can't wait to start playing with these recipes but I am in the middle of buying my first house and don't want to deal with trying to move it.. Once I get in the house(that I can finally call mine)..im turning the whole damn garage into a brewery.. Lol
 

droder1

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My current Grain Bill:



I aim for about 1.060 OG



40% 2 Row

40% Golden Promise

8% Flaked Oats

4% Flaked Barley

4% Weyerman Wheat

2% Flaked Wheat

2% Honey malt

Brau - perhaps this has been discussed earlier in the thread, sorry if missed. How much do you notice (or swear by) the 2 row and GP split? Have you done one with just 2 row and just GP? Curious your views there as it relates to malt flavor and sweetness, (ESP given you have honey malt in the mix as well).

Have you done one with cara foam with the adjuncts at 20% (aka trillium)?

Your split looks a lot like swish...
 
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Brau - perhaps this has been discussed earlier in the thread, sorry if missed. How much do you notice (or swear by) the 2 row and GP split? Have you done one with just 2 row and just GP? Curious your views there as it relates to malt flavor and sweetness, (ESP given you have honey malt in the mix as well).

Have you done one with cara foam with the adjuncts at 20% (aka trillium)?

Your split looks a lot like swish...
I can't say I "swear by it" at all to be honest. It is just what I do. One more of those things that I just need to do a side-by-side on .... Same beer with 50/50 base and the other with 100% 2 Row base. My guess, honestly, is that it probably falls somewhere between no significant difference and "yeah - I can tell the difference.... but, both beers are still good."

I have not used carafoam or cara pils. I have pushed up around 20% flaked..... to be honest, I liked the beer a bit lower in the 15% range. Personally, I think there is a point where the beers (commercial and home-brew examples) can start going from "malty" to "grainy." Not sure exactly where that is.... but probably in that neighborhood possibly.
 
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Is there a real noticeable difference if I add all dry hops at one time for 5 days?
I think a fair number of people do this with good success.... especially if they don't have a keg for dry hopping, or they are bottling, etc. There might be a difference.... but, my guess is it would not be profound and either approach should make good beer.
 

Bowtiebrewery

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Pure beauty in a glass.. Did you use the original recipe that OP posted or something else?

I can't wait to start playing with these recipes but I am in the middle of buying my first house and don't want to deal with trying to move it.. Once I get in the house(that I can finally call mine)..im turning the whole damn garage into a brewery.. Lol

I used the Original OP. Ended up at 1.052 and ended at 1.011. Its good, but i would advise against using US-05. The yeast really lends almost nothing to the party. The Conan would have been better or even wlp-007.

Also when I make this again, I plan on going with the 1.060 gravity recipe that Braufessor suggests. I think a little extra malt and alcohol would definitely benefit this brew. i would keep all the other hops timing and water additions the same.
 
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I used the Original OP. Ended up at 1.052 and ended at 1.011. Its good, but i would advise against using US-05. The yeast really lends almost nothing to the party. The Conan would have been better or even wlp-007.
I agree on US-O5.... I know there are commercial breweries that use this, and I have had beers with it.... it can be a weird yeast in beers like this at times I think. I know some commercial brewers who have been frustrated with trying to use it.

Besides the standbys of Conan and 1318..... I have to put another plug in for 1272. I have brewed about 5 batches of this, and another 5 batches of other beers(Brown, porter, amber, etc.) with a single pack..... I am really happy with how it has worked in this beer. It is a good option as sometimes conan or 1318 can be harder to find. 1272 seems to be readily available usually.
 
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Okay…… This is just kind of an “update post”. The original recipe is great as is… but, here are some slightly different things I have started to do, minor changes, observations, etc. After a certain amount of time, you cannot edit a post – so I can’t really get in to make changes to the OP. I do think I can get this post linked into the OP though. Some of what follows is basically the same as the OP…. Some is different and updated. I will put the updated parts in bold italics

**I brew 6.5 gallons of finished beer (post boil)..... this allows me to leave some hop/trub behind in boil kettle and fermenter and get 5 gallons eventually into serving keg. If you finish with 5 gallons post boil, you might want to adjust hops down a bit.
6.5 gallons post boil
5.75 gallons into fermenter
5 gallons into keg

GRAIN BILL:
1.060 OG…. I think this makes a perfect compromise between getting into DIPA range (having beers that are just too high in abv. for my preference) and going too far toward 1.050 where the beer may become too much of a “session” IPA for some peoples preferences.

% and the actual amt. I use for 6.5 gallons @ 84% mash efficiency (your efficiency may vary – so use the percentages)

40% Rahr 2 Row (5.5 lbs)
40% Golden Promise (or similar…Maris Otter) (5.5 lbs)
8% Flaked Oats (1 lb)
4% Flaked Barley 1/2 lb)
4% Weyerman Wheat (1/2 lb)
2% Flaked Wheat (1/4 lb)
2% Honey Malt (1/4 lb)

60 minute mash @152-154)

*Note on grain…. Using all 2 Row for Base is probably fine. Using any combination of flaked Oats/Wheat/Barley to get into the 15-20% range is proably fine too. I do like the addition of Honey Malt and recommend keeping it.

HOPS:
**60 Min. = .75 oz Warrior
**Flame Out = 1oz. each of Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic
**Chill to 160 or below and add 1oz. each of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy. Stop chiller and allow hops to sit for 30 minute or so. Stir up/whirlpool wort every 5 minutes or so.
Chill to 62-64 and let hops settle out as much as possible. Transfer wort to fermenter. I tend to leave behind .75 gallons of trub and hops (this is why I brew 6.5 gallon batch).

**Dry Hop #1- At day 4-6 (basically when there are a few gravity points left and beer is still fermenting). Add the following to primary fermenter:
1.5 oz. Citra
1 oz. Mosaic
.5 oz. Galaxy

**Dry Hop #2 - Around day 12, transfer to CO2 purged dry hopping keg with
1.5 oz. Citra
1 oz. Mosaic
.5 oz. Galaxy
(I use this strategy: http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/09...no-oxygen.html )

Day 14 - Jump from Dry hop keg to serving keg. Force carbonate to moderate/moderate-low. For carbonation, I usually hook it up at 25 psi for 2 days and then back it off to 10-12 psi - generally seems to carb up best after a few days, but fine to drink after 2-3 days.


Many folks who don't keg, or don't have a dry hopping keg ask about adding all the hops to primary, or adding all the hops in a single dry hop..... that isn't what I do, but you have to make things fit your system and your process. Others do it with fine success. There is no reason it should not work to do that if it fits your system better

WATER PROFILE:
There are multiple directions to go here. Currently, I am partial to the following water addtions - 100% RO water. I add per gallon of mash and sparge water -
Gypsum = .9 grams/gallon
CaCl = .4 grams/gallon
Epsom = .1 gram/gallon
Canning Salt = .05 grams/gallon


Lactic Acid = I add about .5ml- 1ml (total) of lactic acid to the mash and the sparge. And may adjust a bit more…. Aiming for about 5.35-5.45 mash pH and Preboil kettle pH.

Using B'run Water

Ca = 100
Mg = 5
Na = 13
Sulfate = 147
Chloride = 80
Bicarbonate = 16


Mash pH = 5.37-5.42
Final runnings pH = 5.60
Pre-boil Kettle pH = 5.40-5.45
Post Boil pH = 5.3-5.35

**Water strategies to test out for yourself to see what you like best;
2:1 Sulfate:Chloride in the 150:75 range
1:1 Sulfate:Chloride in the 120-150 range
1:2 Sulfate:Chloride in the 75:150 range
All will produce a good beer… but you may find something you personally prefer.
I did go 200 sulfate:50 Cl…… it was fine…. But, it was not what I was looking for. It definitely “dried” the beer out a bit. I think it definitely moved this beer away from what most of us are shooting for in a “Ne IPA.”


Water Profile - the simple solution:
***Many people ask about a more general guide to water because they do not know what their own water profile is, or they have not made the jump to using a water profile software. I use B'run water, and the above profile. However, if you just want to get in the ballpark of something "similar" to start with..... The simplest solution is this:
100% RO water for both mash and sparge.
Per 5 gallons of mash water: 1 tsp of CaCl + 1/2 tsp Gypsum
Per 5 gallons of sparge water: 1 tsp of CaCl + 1/2 tsp Gypsum

This should bring you in around 140 Chloride and 80 Sulfate.

Or….. to try other versions….
*The opposite: 1tsp of gypsum and ½ tsp of CaCl per 5 gallon
*Equal ratios: ¾ - 1 tsp of each per 5 gallon.


This does not take into account trying to get Na or Mg numbers. It ignores bicarbonate and as it is 100% RO, it should bring your mash pH in around 5.41 without any acid addition.

ROUGH estimate of grams to tsp of minerals:
1/4 tsp Gypsum = .9 grams
1/4 tsp CaCl = 1.1 grams
1/4 tsp Epsom Salt = 1.3 grams
1/4 tsp Canning Salt = 1.8 grams


FERMENTATION
Yeast - Conan(vermont IPA), 1318 is also a yeast many choose to use in beers like this. *** I have also found that 1272 works great. I am starting to think that there are many yeasts that would likely do just fine in beers like this. 1056, 1450, 007…. I would not be afraid to try other yeasts.
I tend to start fermentation off around 62-64 at let it free rise to 66-68 degrees through the first 3 days or so of fermentation. At that point, I like to move it somewhere that it can finish off in the 68-70-72 range.

OTHER THOUGHTS/NOTES:

I keep almost everything the same in brewing IPA's to this style. However, I do mix up the hops. I always bitter with warrior (Columbus on occasion), and always use 4 sets of 3 ounce additions at Flameout, Whirlpool, Dry Hop #1, Dry Hop #2....... but, not always the same hops. I sometimes do 100% Citra. I sometimes do equal parts of Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy for all 4 additions (Grapefruit!!!!), I some times do equal parts (1.5 ounces) citra/mosaic at all 4 additions... But always the same basic amount, in the same basic schedule.
I think single hop versions of Mosaic or Galaxy would potentially be quite good. I have done 2:1 Citra:Columbus that was good. I like Simcoe/Amarillo/Centennial (but I keep centennial out of the dry hop as I find it “drying”). I have used Citra/Azacca – which was good (although Azacca can get lost as it is not as “strong” as some of the others). Personally, I think dank hops like Columbus, Eureka, etc. can get out of hand in beers like this and come off as harsh and grassy….. so, I tend to really limit them to smaller amounts. Lots of combos will work….. but, at the end of the day I still find it very hard to beat Citra:Mosaic:Galaxy combos.
 
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Would it be possible to split a batch before it goes into primary and make these additions at that point? Then everything, including the age of the batch, would be exactly the same, allowing a truly direct comparison. Not sure how one would hit correct mash pH, calculate additions, etc.

Maybe start with 75:75 for mash and boil, separate into 1-gallon fermenters, and add additional modifiers there?

OR, what about just adding them when bottling/kegging, or even in a growler?

Does the impact on taste from sulfate and chloride occur during mash, boil, fermentation, or just end product?

I'd really like to taste these three variations side by side, but don't have the capacity or time to do three full batches in quick succession.
I guess, in theory, you could do this..... The primary problem becomes mash pH. For example, if you use 100% RO water, and my basic recipe. Adding .45 grams/gallon of gypsum and .4 grams per gallon of CaCl to both mash and sparge, you get about 70ppm of both Sulfate and Chloride.

Now, the projected mash pH is 5.48..... which, to be honest, mine usually comes in a bit under the projected. So, while it is starting to push a bit high, I think it would be "ok". Although, you are closing in on flirting with getting outside what you want for a pH in beers like this.... so, that could give you some problems potentially.

If you brewed the beer, and then split it..... you could effectively add the same grams/gallon to your fermenters to get your other ratios....

Add just .45 grams per gallon of gypsum to get 2:1 sulfate
Add just .4 grams per gallon of CaCl to get 2:1 Chloride
Or, add an additional .45grams per gallon of gypsum AND .4 grams per gallon of CaCl to get a 1:1 in the 140:140 range.

Personally, I brew a lot and don't mind doing multiple full batches of the same thing at the same time. So, if/when I do it, I will likely just brew 2 x 5 gallon batches on the same day with different water profiles. But, Doing the above might be worth a shot as well. You could always put 1/2 ml of lactic acid in both mash and sparge if you are worried about pH..... but, that could throw things a bit the other way later in the process with pH heading toward being a touch low.

The problem with trying to do additions in bottles, glasses or growlers is that you get to the point where you are dealing with exceedingly tiny additions of these minerals and it can be tough to add the correct, proportional amount.... but, yes - with some math and a good scale - it can be done too.

Personally, I think the earlier in the process you can do it, the better. But, I have dosed beers in the keg before to correct what I perceived as problems with good success. (I had a scottish ale I screwed up and it finished out with a very low pH. I added baking soda to the keg in correct amount to adjust it up .3 tenths of a pH point and it made a world of difference.)
 

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This is great - thanks for the reply. I'll post results when I try this.
 

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@Braufessor - thanks for the update post. It prompts 2 questions....
1. Have you ever done a 100% Maris Otter or Golden Promise as your base malt and reverted back to 50/50 2-row/GP? If so, why?

2. Why do you decrease your use of Galaxy to .5 in dry hop? What is it about that hop, or what you're going for?
 
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@Braufessor - thanks for the update post. It prompts 2 questions....
1. Have you ever done a 100% Maris Otter or Golden Promise as your base malt and reverted back to 50/50 2-row/GP? If so, why?

2. Why do you decrease your use of Galaxy to .5 in dry hop? What is it about that hop, or what you're going for?
1.) No..... essentially for no other reason than GP costs a lot of money and 2 Row does not cost a lot of money.... so, I have always just kind of blended it with the idea that I am getting some additional flavor from the GP, without all of the cost. Not very scientific..... but that is honestly the entire thought process behind it. I need to put it on my "to do" list in regard to brewing comparisons and see, once and for all, if it makes any difference.

2.) I just (personally) think galaxy can be a pretty powerful hop. I have brewed beers where I did equal ratio for every addition. I just thought it "took over" a bit in the dry hop. Very grapefruit (not a bad thing necessarily.) I still do beers with a 1:1:1 ratio from time to time..... but, scaling it back and going more toward citra/mosaic is simply my favorite. I just think that Citra and Mosaic are a bit smoother, rounder, fuller..... Just a blend I did a few times and really ended up liking.

I have one on tap right now with 1:1:1 in kettle but only Citra and Mosaic in the dry hop - I love that one as well.
 

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Thanks for the reply. I sit here enjoying a NE Pale ale brewed with many of the practices highlighted in this excellent thread. In this one, my base malt is 100% Maris Otter.

Hops were Citra/Galaxy/Simcoe at 1:1:.5 at 10 minutes and 1:1:1 in whirlpool and dry hop. Similar to reasons you mention w.r.t. Galaxy, I like to reduce Simcoe (and Mosaic) in the boil in order to keep a handle on the pine and dank that those hops can impart (to my palate) when boiled.
 

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I am new to this forum and to home brewing in general. Over the past few weeks I have been doing a ton of research on the process of brewing and really thinking about making the investment but I have never had a home brewed beer so just wondering if anyone would be interested in trading their home brewed IPA for something I can access here in North Carolina.
 
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Thanks for the reply. I sit here enjoying a NE Pale ale brewed with many of the practices highlighted in this excellent thread. In this one, my base malt is 100% Maris Otter.

Hops were Citra/Galaxy/Simcoe at 1:1:.5 at 10 minutes and 1:1:1 in whirlpool and dry hop. Similar to reasons you mention w.r.t. Galaxy, I like to reduce Simcoe (and Mosaic) in the boil in order to keep a handle on the pine and dank that those hops can impart (to my palate) when boiled.
What do you think? 100% maris Otter make a difference over 2 Row?
 

ViciousFishes

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What do you think? 100% maris Otter make a difference over 2 Row?
Great question. That demands a side-by-side comparison.

On the left, a west coast pale ale built from a free wort giveaway from Raleigh brewing a couple of weeks ago. Primarily 2-row with a smattering of C20. Bittered with Columbus, probably a bit of Columbus in the boil. Willamette in whirlpool. 25 IBU total. I pitched WLP090 and dry hopped 1:1 with Centennial and Mosaic. I call it Tiburónes Pale Ale.

On the right, Piranha Pale Ale, a NE pale ale that is 72% Maris Otter, 15% flaked wheat, 8% white wheat, 4% honey malt. Bittered with Magnum to 10 IBUs, Citra/Galaxy/Simcoe at 1:1:.5 at 5 mins, whirlpool and dry hop. Vermont Ale yeast. 37 IBU in total.

The malt profile in Tiburónes is clean, light grain. Delicious. A good platform for the hops.
The malt profile of Piranha is rounder, slightly toasty. Complements the soft mouthfeel from flaked grains, Conan and Chloride focused water

To your question, does it make a difference? I honestly don't think it makes too much difference. With these luscious beers, I'm focused on what aromas and favors do I perceive from the hops. I had to really stop and focus to analyze the beers to identify the different malt attributes. I'll probably continue to purchase Maris Otter in my NE style brews (and Brown/porter/Bitter, etc), but I wouldn't sweat it a bit if my LHBS was out of it for this beer in the future.

image.jpg
 

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I'd like to talk about color. Has anyone else had trouble getting that vibrant orange burst of color that these beers are known for? Below I have posted a glass of Julius next to my own NE IPA which I call Texas Sunrise. Yeah, doesn't look nearly as appealing, does it?

Honestly, I've had this problem with most of my pale beers, not just this one. They tend to end up with a brownish tint to them. Which leads me to believe it's something in my process more than the grain bill. Or I even had the idea that there were actual small flakes of hop material that caused this and was going to do an extra thorough crash with my next attempt. Can anyone suggest specific process errors that could create this discoloration in my beers?

Brewer's Friend predicted an SRM of 6.23 with my grain bill, which is a little different than Brau's. I used less two row (31%) more wheat (15%) and also added a bit of Golden Naked Oats (4%) The MO, flaked oats and Honey malt were all about the same as the original.

Happy to answer any other specific questions, and looking forward to any possible suggestions. Thanks guys!

J and TS smaller.jpg
 

anteater8

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Amazed at how much this beer has cleared up after 3.5 weeks in the keg (the longest I've ever ha a keg of this last). You can see the de Garde logo on the opposite side of the glass.

 

val214

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My experience with this type of brew varies. A lot of people say that yeast plays a huge part on the amount of cloudyness the beer shows. I brewed a 12 gal batch and split them in to 6 gal batches. One got Conan and the other for WL001. The 001 was crisp and hop forward. The Conan was pungent and cloudy. I honestly think that it depends on the fad and amazement of the haze, murky and cloudy look and appeals of the style. Eventually this beer will clear out.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1473475610.432591.jpg
 

BrewinSoldier

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I'd like to talk about color. Has anyone else had trouble getting that vibrant orange burst of color that these beers are known for? Below I have posted a glass of Julius next to my own NE IPA which I call Texas Sunrise. Yeah, doesn't look nearly as appealing, does it?

Honestly, I've had this problem with most of my pale beers, not just this one. They tend to end up with a brownish tint to them. Which leads me to believe it's something in my process more than the grain bill. Or I even had the idea that there were actual small flakes of hop material that caused this and was going to do an extra thorough crash with my next attempt. Can anyone suggest specific process errors that could create this discoloration in my beers?

Brewer's Friend predicted an SRM of 6.23 with my grain bill, which is a little different than Brau's. I used less two row (31%) more wheat (15%) and also added a bit of Golden Naked Oats (4%) The MO, flaked oats and Honey malt were all about the same as the original.

Happy to answer any other specific questions, and looking forward to any possible suggestions. Thanks guys!
I just brewed a pliny the younger clone which had 4 dry hopping additions to it. The post boil wort tasted amazing and had a beautiful color to it. I have a really nice setup(fly ok chiller, SS chronicals, ability to purge conicals with co2), I was very careful with sanitizing. First dry hop was 4 days, dumped and added second for 4 days.. At this point it smelled and tasted wonderful, and still looked like the correct color.. Then dry hop#3 was added for 4 days.. Not only did the color change to a brownish color, it tasted really funny and had a very strong alcoholic taste. I purge my conical with co2 after every dry hop so that leads me to believe one of 2 things happened.. 1.oxidation which is usually what causes the beer to turn brown.. The only thing is that I have had a hard time with this because I purge with co2 each and every time I add hops. 2. There could have been something wrong with the hops in dry hop#3 that somehow caused contamination. Even if it did, it came out at 13%abv so I have a hard time believing that the alcohol wouldn't have killed it. The other thing is I used some of these same exact hops for dry hops 1,2,4 so that makes me question this theory.

I would check your process and make sure you aren't oxidizing your beers. That seems like the most likely culprit. I just got done kegging an apricot blonde that I made after the pliny and it is fine, color taste and all so idk.
 

stickyfinger

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Hi Guys,

Kegged and gassed this a week ago today. As I noted above, I didn't do a dry hop keg for the second dry hop round - rather I put them in the serving keg.

I sampled it two days later, and it was offensively bitter, dank, sharp, etc. Clearly it needed time to soften. Monday, it was better, but more time is needed.

Question: Should I remove the dry hops out of the serving keg? I have never keg dry hopped before, so not sure if they are better taken out. I am not thrilled about exposing the keg to oxygen, but if I work slowly/carefully I should be able to mitigate disturbing the CO2 layer and will re-flush again after. Thanks!

i've been doing a fair bit of keg hopping. i usually weight a fine mesh hop bag with SS parts and put in 0.5 oz per gallon. i suspend the bag with dental floss so I don't clog the dip tube. i've noticed:

-the keg hop character is much more "dank". reminds me of Apollo, Comet or Summit every time

-keg hopping is not as good of a flavor as primary hopping to me

-it tastes really intense at first and is super cloudy and then slowly clears and tastes more rounded

-can be used to save a beer that has lost its hoppiness or was underhopped

-adds some bitterness, especially early on
 

stickyfinger

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Just did a dry hop only NE IPA. Used 82% Pearl malt, 18% rolled oats, 150 ppm SO4, 150 ppm Cl, low bittering charge in kettle and no other kettle hops. pitched 1450, Denny's. Dry hop after 6 days with 2:2:2 citra, mosaic, galaxy. rest 10 days and dry hop with 2.5:2.5:1 C, M, G again. rest 10 days, chill 2 days and keg. it is really delicious. not sure i would be able to tell a difference b/w this and a beer with hopstand plus dryhop. nice body on beer, maybe a little too gypsumy-dry but very easy to drink.

would someone be willing to do a side by side of dry hop only VS hopstand plus dry hop? :)
 

lilbova3

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Just did a dry hop only NE IPA. Used 82% Pearl malt, 18% rolled oats, 150 ppm SO4, 150 ppm Cl, low bittering charge in kettle and no other kettle hops. pitched 1450, Denny's. Dry hop after 6 days with 2:2:2 citra, mosaic, galaxy. rest 10 days and dry hop with 2.5:2.5:1 C, M, G again. rest 10 days, chill 2 days and keg. it is really delicious. not sure i would be able to tell a difference b/w this and a beer with hopstand plus dryhop. nice body on beer, maybe a little too gypsumy-dry but very easy to drink.

would someone be willing to do a side by side of dry hop only VS hopstand plus dry hop? :)
I've been curious about larger dry hops amounts and lower whirlpool amounts. I was thinking the aroma and flavor would be pretty amazing.
 

pegasus17459

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My experience with this type of brew varies. A lot of people say that yeast plays a huge part on the amount of cloudyness the beer shows. I brewed a 12 gal batch and split them in to 6 gal batches. One got Conan and the other for WL001. The 001 was crisp and hop forward. The Conan was pungent and cloudy. I honestly think that it depends on the fad and amazement of the haze, murky and cloudy look and appeals of the style. Eventually this beer will clear out.
View attachment 369518
The yeast has close to zero percent with having to do with the cloudiness. It's the wheat primarily. Secondarily, it's the dry hops interacting with the wheat (or adjuncts such as flaked oats, etc.)

Here is a source to it for it.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-portlands-65th-craft-brewer-has-learned-to-compete-2016-07-08
 

pegasus17459

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I'd like to talk about color. Has anyone else had trouble getting that vibrant orange burst of color that these beers are known for? Below I have posted a glass of Julius next to my own NE IPA which I call Texas Sunrise. Yeah, doesn't look nearly as appealing, does it?

Honestly, I've had this problem with most of my pale beers, not just this one. They tend to end up with a brownish tint to them. Which leads me to believe it's something in my process more than the grain bill. Or I even had the idea that there were actual small flakes of hop material that caused this and was going to do an extra thorough crash with my next attempt. Can anyone suggest specific process errors that could create this discoloration in my beers?

Brewer's Friend predicted an SRM of 6.23 with my grain bill, which is a little different than Brau's. I used less two row (31%) more wheat (15%) and also added a bit of Golden Naked Oats (4%) The MO, flaked oats and Honey malt were all about the same as the original.

Happy to answer any other specific questions, and looking forward to any possible suggestions. Thanks guys!
Hi, I definitely agree with it being possible oxidation. The other day when I was transferring from my fermenter to hopping keg i filled a large glass with some of the left over beer from the fermenter. I tried some and then kept it in the fridge for a day or so. It absolutely went from a bright yellow to a dull yellowish brown!! It was obviously getting oxidized.

What is your transfer process like?

Also, how much is going into your boil and what are you using for a boil pot?

I suppose its possible that you may be caramelizing the wort if not enough volume, or if your pot doesn't distribute heat across the bottom good? I think there is a lesser chance of this though. I boiled my wort accidentally for close to three hours and my beer came out maybe a shade darker, but it still had a beautiful yellow orange glow to it. I posted a picture a page or two back.

It's not your grain profile. Even if you use a profile that is darker in color, the beer should still "glow". The beer you have there is dulled. And it's dulled the same way the beer that I left in the fridge was.
 

TxBigHops

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I just brewed a pliny the younger clone which had 4 dry hopping additions to it. The post boil wort tasted amazing and had a beautiful color to it. I have a really nice setup(fly ok chiller, SS chronicals, ability to purge conicals with co2), I was very careful with sanitizing. First dry hop was 4 days, dumped and added second for 4 days.. At this point it smelled and tasted wonderful, and still looked like the correct color.. Then dry hop#3 was added for 4 days.. Not only did the color change to a brownish color, it tasted really funny and had a very strong alcoholic taste. I purge my conical with co2 after every dry hop so that leads me to believe one of 2 things happened.. 1.oxidation which is usually what causes the beer to turn brown.. The only thing is that I have had a hard time with this because I purge with co2 each and every time I add hops. 2. There could have been something wrong with the hops in dry hop#3 that somehow caused contamination. Even if it did, it came out at 13%abv so I have a hard time believing that the alcohol wouldn't have killed it. The other thing is I used some of these same exact hops for dry hops 1,2,4 so that makes me question this theory.

I would check your process and make sure you aren't oxidizing your beers. That seems like the most likely culprit. I just got done kegging an apricot blonde that I made after the pliny and it is fine, color taste and all so idk.
Thanks for replying. I hadn't thought about oxidation. Prior to this batch all my beers were bottled. A small amount of this batch went into a small keg I just bought, and that beer was not as brown as the one in the pic above which was bottled. Doesn't oxidation effect taste? Because the beers taste fantastic. I thought it was almost as good as the Julius, and my brew partner thought ours was better.
 

TxBigHops

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Hi, I definitely agree with it being possible oxidation. The other day when I was transferring from my fermenter to hopping keg i filled a large glass with some of the left over beer from the fermenter. I tried some and then kept it in the fridge for a day or so. It absolutely went from a bright yellow to a dull yellowish brown!! It was obviously getting oxidized.

What is your transfer process like?

Also, how much is going into your boil and what are you using for a boil pot?

I suppose its possible that you may be caramelizing the wort if not enough volume, or if your pot doesn't distribute heat across the bottom good? I think there is a lesser chance of this though. I boiled my wort accidentally for close to three hours and my beer came out maybe a shade darker, but it still had a beautiful yellow orange glow to it. I posted a picture a page or two back.

It's not your grain profile. Even if you use a profile that is darker in color, the beer should still "glow". The beer you have there is dulled. And it's dulled the same way the beer that I left in the fridge was.
Thanks! We'll be brewing version II of this in about a week. We just acquired a new Stout system. The last one was brewed on my old 5 gallon system. I'm going to spend some time reading about oxidation and will make some changes to the process to eliminate that possibility. One thing I'm curious about is, I thought that oxidation would effect the taste, but the beer still tastes amazing. Very close to the Julius we drank with it.
 

pegasus17459

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Thanks! We'll be brewing version II of this in about a week. We just acquired a new Stout system. The last one was brewed on my old 5 gallon system. I'm going to spend some time reading about oxidation and will make some changes to the process to eliminate that possibility. One thing I'm curious about is, I thought that oxidation would effect the taste, but the beer still tastes amazing. Very close to the Julius we drank with it.
I think it depends on the level of oxidation. With my own little experiment of having that cup of beer in the fridge, it seems the color went dull first. Secondly, it didn't taste as sharp, ethereal, or nuanced.

I would suspect a little amount of oxidation in your case (which makes sense from originally coming into contact with the oxygen in the bottles. The yeast in the beer then scrubbed the oxygen, limiting the oxidative damage.), which caused the color to change. The change in taste may or may not have begun based on your ability to pick it up on your palate.
 
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