New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[cegan09]

Braufessor, question on your blonde. I'm following your method for growing up Conan. Where does the gravity usually settle out at for that beer? Mine is sitting right at 1.012 currently after a week, which is where i expect it on the larger IPAs. Didn't know if you see it lower on the blonde or not.

Thanks

 

[Braufessor]

Braufessor, question on your blonde. I'm following your method for growing up Conan. Where does the gravity usually settle out at for that beer? Mine is sitting right at 1.012 currently after a week, which is where i expect it on the larger IPAs. Didn't know if you see it lower on the blonde or not.

Thanks

I would say 1.011-1.012 is fairly normal.... especially if it is first generation. I can't say I have ever had it go under 1.010 on any beer I have ever brewed.
I think you are good.... might eek out another point or two, but you are right in the ballpark.

 

[55x11]

can someone explain what is responsible for cloudy appearance of East Coast (or NE) IPAs vs. Clear West Coast IPAs?

is it dry hopping? late hopping additions? interactions between yeast and hops?

 

[Braufessor]

can someone explain what is responsible for cloudy appearance of East Coast (or NE) IPAs vs. Clear West Coast IPAs?

is it dry hopping? late hopping additions? interactions between yeast and hops?

There is no singular answer.

Some of it is honestly yeast and gunk left in suspension. Personally, I am not a big fan of that. Most of the beers I brew are "hazy" - not murky or cloudy. Conan yeast tends to drop better than 1318, and (in general) my process results in most of the yeast, hops, trub, etc dropping out - so, not much ends up making it to serving keg.

Sooooo.... why are the beers still hazy? My personal opinion at this point is that it is several factors working together. I think the following all play a role in the haziness:

*Slightly higher pH in the brew kettle..... most of the beers I brew seem to hit the kettle around 5.35-5.45. In general, I notice better break material when beers are in the 5.25-5.35 range. I think this could be one aspect of it.

*Large amounts of flaked grains.... although, to be honest, I am not so sure how significant this is. I have brewed wheat beers with 60% wheat/flaked that dropped clear......

*In my opinion, the #1 candidate for haze is the large amount of hops that are added to partially chilled wort, and dry hop additions during primary and in the keg..... I think this is a huge part of it. There is some interaction between the large amount of hop oils being introduced at cooler temperatures that creates some of the haze aspect.

* I used to think that high chloride might play a role, but I just brewed a beer with lower chloride and higher sulfate and it was still as hazy as normal..... I don't think that is a factor.

I think lot of hops at cooler temps, and perhaps beer pH are the two leading candidates in my book as far as haze..... when you get to "murky" that is definitely yeast and other gunk in suspension.

 

[cegan09]

I would say 1.011-1.012 is fairly normal.... especially if it is first generation. I can't say I have ever had it go under 1.010 on any beer I have ever brewed.
I think you are good.... might eek out another point or two, but you are right in the ballpark.

Thank you. First time with Conan yeast and I wasn't sure what to expect. I believe the fridge is set to start dropping temp today so I'll have it in a keg after a few days letting things drop out. Tasted awesome last night when I pulled the gravity sample.

 

[Braufessor]

Thank you. First time with Conan yeast and I wasn't sure what to expect. I believe the fridge is set to start dropping temp today so I'll have it in a keg after a few days letting things drop out. Tasted awesome last night when I pulled the gravity sample.

Great.... hope it turns out well for you - It is always nice to have a decent blonde ale available, and it makes a nice clean beer for generating yeast for future brews.

The big thing now is to make sure you are very sanitary in your yeast collection practices...... lots of star san, clean gear, clean surfaces, alcohol swabs, use a flame if appropriate, anything the yeast slurry touches on the way from the fermenter to whatever you are storing the yeast in ..... in particular any spigots get lots of starsan, lip of carboy or buckets if pouring need to be clean and sanitary.

Leave a bit of beer behind in fermenter to swirl up the yeast and pour off. If you are storing it (as opposed to immediate repitch) leave the beer on top of the yeast (like photo below)..... this fermented beer has low pH and alcohol levels that protect the yeast as bacteria cannot get a foothold in that environment. (i.e., it is generally best NOT to "wash" yeast and store it in water).

 

[stickyfinger]

Any updates to the favorite hop combinations in this? I remember seeing
Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy
Citra/Columbus
Citra/Simcoe

Ever try an all-Galaxy one? Seems like some of the commercial ones use all Galaxy

 

[Braufessor]

My two favorites so far are:

1:1:1 Citra Mosaic Galaxy in both kettle additions
1.5:1.5 Citra mosaic in both dry hops

and

1:1:1 Citra Mosaic Galaxy in both kettle additions
1.5:1:.5 Citra Mosaic Galaxy in both dry hops

I have not tried all galaxy...... Personally, I think Galaxy is a hop that adds a lot as a background player but can be rather overwhelming all my itself or in large amounts.

I also have liked
1:1:1 Simcoe Amarillo Centennial in the kettle
1.5:1.5 simcoe amarillo in both dry hops

 

[WrQth]

In the next few weeks I will be brewing this again but with different hops but want to get this a bit drier since the hops have a lot of "sweet" flavor descriptors.

1:1:1 Summer, Mosaic, Cluster

 

[stickyfinger]

Saw this on the Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone thread:

This isn't entirely new news, but a new brewer in portland seems to be chatty about the NEIPA style

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-portlands-65th-craft-brewer-has-learned-to-compete-2016-07-08

What I realized is that it was a combination of things to make a New England style of IPA to get that hop flavor. Here in Portland, we saw the IBU wars over the last few years and, fortunately, they have gone away. Nobody’s bragging about a 100 IBU beer anymore. What we’re seeing now, from my perspective, are beers that are more balanced, lighter in color, less crystal and caramel malts, beers that have a higher protein content through wheat and oats. The protein in the style is one of the defining factors — they’re hazy, and you can’t get through that.

People look at our beers and say: “You have too much yeast in suspension.” What it comes down to is educating people that there is some yeast in every beer — we don’t filter, we don’t fine, we don’t centrifuge — but we cold crash all of our beer, drop the yeast out and then do a heavy dry hopping. We dry hop about two and a half to three gallons per barrel. When you dry hop that heavily, you get hop polyphenols that are basically tannins that saturate beer with oils.

Without protein content from wheat or oats, those oils eventually drop out. What we’re finding to be the defining characteristic of our beers is this marriage of protein and hop oil saturation. What’s happening is that those two are binding. You have this hop oil stuck in suspension and when you pour it into a glass, you’re tasting the hop oil.

We’re spending a lot of money on hops, and if these hops are going to drop out, it feels like you’re wasting money. That’s the beauty of the New England-style IPA, and that’s why that style is blowing up across the nation. I’m not a hop scientist, but this is just my observation from making it over and over again. It’s not something that we’re keeping a secret: People know you’re using flaked wheat or oats and leaving those hop oils in suspension. It’s like a hefeweizen: That’s not cloudy because of the yeast; it’s because of the wheat.

I don't know how much of this is true, but it is starting to make sense to me. I've made plenty of IPAs that had no added flaked grains, and they have all started clearing within a week or less and have started losing hop flavor as they cleared. This most recent IPA I made with a huge % of flaked grains is staying very cloudy and very hoppy for longer than I am used to. I can't help but think at least part of it is the flaked grains. I also think the Conan is very important. I used to use US-05 all of the time, and it has a much different character compared with Conan, much more dry and rougher to me.

Makes me wonder how far we can push the flaked grains in the style, especially if we want to push down the ABV and still have decent mouthfeel in the beer, with the possible benefit of tons of hop flavor hanging in solution.

 

[brewkinger]

10 days after bottling and 12 hours in the fridge.

I am thinking that this will be the Haus IPA

View attachment 1468071777019.jpg

 

[IMXELITE]

I'm going to pick up supplies to brew this recipe tomorrow. I'm super excited but nervous about the water profile. My tap water is hard and the PH is around 8.2. I have a water report from my county but I have no idea how to read it so I was thinking my best bet would be to use 100% RO water for my mash and sparge.

My bigger question is if I am using yeast 1318 how big of a starter should I make? I increased the grain bill slightly so the final abv should be around 7.5%. Would a 1 liter be enough or do I need a bigger starter?

 

[whovous]

Do you have a profile planned for the RO water, or do you plan to use it "plain"?

 

[IMXELITE]

I was thinking of using 1/2 tsp of gypsum and 1 tsp of CaCI for each 5 gallon of water. Which I saw suggested by the OP. Hopefully that gets me in the ballpark.

 

[whovous]

That's 1.8g of gypsum and 4.4g of Cacl. I've used a little more complicated profile, but I think I may use this as well when I brew on Tuesday.

 

[brewkinger]

My bigger question is if I am using yeast 1318 how big of a starter should I make? I increased the grain bill slightly so the final abv should be around 7.5%. Would a 1 liter be enough or do I need a bigger starter?

You will need a bigger starter.

Basically, a 5.5 gal batch at 1.070 or so will need 250 to 300 billion cells.
A freshly manufactured 1318 smack pack is only 100 billion.
That number drops as it gets older, for instance 75 billion cells are left after roughly a month.

Using Brewers Friend, I calculate a 1.5 liter starter to get 289 billion cells.

Hope this helps.

 

[IMXELITE]

Thanks I will use a 1.5 liter starter

 

[brewkinger]

Thanks I will use a 1.5 liter starter

What is the date of manufacture on your package of 1318 yeast?

 

[Braufessor]

I was thinking of using 1/2 tsp of gypsum and 1 tsp of CaCI for each 5 gallon of water. Which I saw suggested by the OP. Hopefully that gets me in the ballpark.

Definitely use the RO water.... Hard water is a disaster for beer like this. The basic additions you have above will get you in the ballpark for sure. It will provide a good base for you to start with and you can tweak it more from there if you want.

I have been bumping up the sulfate in a couple recent attempts and really like it. So, something you might want to try in the future to compare it to would be to do 1 tsp each of both gypsum and CaCl in both mash and sparge. Or, reverse the gypsum and CaCl additions with more gypsum and less CaCl.....That would give you a second and third variation to see if you have a preference between them.

 

[olotti]

My latest used two row and MO this time and ctz, centennial, Amarillo in the kettle with Amarillo/ citra dbl dry hop, Conan yeast. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1468098896.526821.jpg

 

[IMXELITE]

Definitely use the RO water.... Hard water is a disaster for beer like this. The basic additions you have above will get you in the ballpark for sure. It will provide a good base for you to start with and you can tweak it more from there if you want.

I have been bumping up the sulfate in a couple recent attempts and really like it. So, something you might want to try in the future to compare it to would be to do 1 tsp each of both gypsum and CaCl in both mash and sparge. Or, reverse the gypsum and CaCl additions with more gypsum and less CaCl.....That would give you a second and third variation to see if you have a preference between them.

Thanks for the information. I had a feeling something would go wrong with my brew day tomorrow. I just got home from picking up my ingredients. I was given green bullet hops as a substitute for Galaxy and calcium carbonate instead of calcium chloride.

 

[olotti]

Thanks for the information. I had a feeling something would go wrong with my brew day tomorrow. I just got home from picking up my ingredients. I was given green bullet hops as a substitute for Galaxy and calcium carbonate instead of calcium chloride.

Calcium carbonate is chalk if I'm not mistaken and not recommended as a substitute for cal chloride if that's what they sold it to you for its also highly insoluble in water, I'm no chemist so I don't know how you would balance any chloride if you didn't use cal chloride. Also jmho the closest thing to Galaxy to me would be citra or maybe mosaic but I find galaxy like a better more tropical version of citra I use Galaxy a lot so I'm not trying to burst your bubble but don't expect Galaxy type flavor with green bullet, it's not near as tropical reminds me more of Amarillo or something like that, it's not bad by any means but nowhere near s potent as I find Galaxy.

 

[whovous]

Northern Brewer says:

"New Zealand Green Bullet Hops can be used as an aroma hop to provide a spicy, grassy flavor with hints of lime."

Meanwhile, YCH says of Galaxy, which appears to be in short supply everywhere:

"Specific aroma descriptors include distinct passionfruit and clean citrus aromas."

That does not sound like a substitute for me. If you planned to follow Braufessor's lead and do Citra/Mosaic/Galaxy, I'd consider leaving Green Bullet out entirely and just using Citra/Mosaic. You may need to follow the same path with the chalk. Leave it out and just add the gypsum.

 

[IMXELITE]

I'm about to return the green bullet hops as it was their mistake. I'll make sure to exchange the calcium carbonate as well.

 

[Braufessor]

Thanks for the information. I had a feeling something would go wrong with my brew day tomorrow. I just got home from picking up my ingredients. I was given green bullet hops as a substitute for Galaxy and calcium carbonate instead of calcium chloride.

I agree with others on the green bullet.... I would be sketchy on that. Grassy is not something you want. I would maybe consider going 1.5 to 1.5 citra/mosaic. If you bought enough hops for the whole thing, you don't really need the dry hops for a while and could get some more citra and mosaic if needed.

As for the CaCL..... don't use that calcium carbonate - that is no good. It will increase pH. You don't want that. you don't happen to have any pickle crisp for canning do you??? It is simply CaCl......
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003IOEWL8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[IMXELITE]

Okay guys. I just got back and returned the green bullet and and got the CaCl. I'll take your suggestion @Braufessor and use 1.5 oz Citra/Mosaic at flame out.

 

[Braufessor]

Okay guys. I just got back and returned the green bullet and and got the CaCl. I'll take your suggestion @Braufessor and use 1.5 oz Citra/Mosaic at flame out.

Citra/Mosaic is an awesome combo. One of my favorites.

 

[Duden89]

I made my first batch of this a few weeks ago and it was great. Planning batch number 2, but wanted to run an idea past some beer experts. Anyone think of doing a "pale ale" version of this? I was thinking 4.5-5.0% ABV, 20-30 IBU (just decrease the 60 minute addition), and increase the sulfate:chloride to maybe 150:50 to get the crispness. Possibly even a little dextrose to dry it down to 1.009 or so OG (I would be using Conan 4th generation). I love the beer the way it is, but I'm looking for a hoppy pale ale to bring the BMC drinkers over to the dark side.

 

[Braufessor]

I made my first batch of this a few weeks ago and it was great. Planning batch number 2, but wanted to run an idea past some beer experts. Anyone think of doing a "pale ale" version of this? I was thinking 4.5-5.0% ABV, 20-30 IBU (just decrease the 60 minute addition), and increase the sulfate:chloride to maybe 150:50 to get the crispness. Possibly even a little dextrose to dry it down to 1.009 or so OG (I would be using Conan 4th generation). I love the beer the way it is, but I'm looking for a hoppy pale ale to bring the BMC drinkers over to the dark side.

For sure..... love trying to make smaller versions of beers.

I would cut all the hop additions a bit. Scale back bittering to get your 20-30, but then maybe go with 4 x 2ounce additions (or 1.5 ounce additions) for all the late hopping. I would avoid "harsher" hops like columbus, galaxy, etc.... or go very low amounts (.25 ounces with each addition for example). I would lean toward citra and mosaic I think.
Maybe something like this???
1 ounce Citra
.75 ounce mosaic
.25 ounce galaxy in all 4 additions

Not sure if I would go with dextrose ..... my experience with trying to make low abv. hoppy beers is their biggest flaw is they are easy to end up with a dry, thin, harsh kind of beer. I would actually lean more toward mashing 155-156 and trying to keep it from drying out. Perhaps even throwing in a pound of munich in place of a pound of 2 Row. Or going 100% golden promise for base malt portion.

 

[Braufessor]

@Duden89 .... I actually just brewed this recipe a couple days ago - looking for a low abv. type pale ale with lots of hop flavor. I used conan yeast instead of 1318, but everything else pretty much exactly. Might give you some ideas too.
http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2015/08/tired-hands-hophands-clone-revisted.html