Need a substitute for London Ale III aka Boddinton's yeast

[Comfort_Zone]

I just use Conan, never been a fan of LA III

 

[EnglishAndy]

I've been watching WLP037 for a while now - sadly you need a US credit card to preorder from the Vault, which I suspect dramatically underestimates the potential demand for some of the British strains, at least. It's only 150 preorders needed, sadly WLP038 Manchester is on 147....

Your wish has been granted. WLP037 has reached the target and is shipping from the vault soon!

 

[kmarkstevens]

I haven't heard confirmation from White Labs yet. There is usually a lag between target hit and they actually send a confirmation email and ding your credit card. I'll ping the guy that does orders on Monday if I haven't heard anything.

Looking forward to this yeast big time and ready to start making some Boddy style brews.

 

[couchsending]

Imperial A30 corporate

 

[EnglishAndy]

I haven't heard confirmation from White Labs yet. There is usually a lag between target hit and they actually send a confirmation email and ding your credit card. I'll ping the guy that does orders on Monday if I haven't heard anything.

Looking forward to this yeast big time and ready to start making some Boddy style brews.

I'll be watching our suppliers here in the UK as well in the hope that it does show up. Any idea how long a vault strain remains in production?

 

[jfolks]

Imperial A30 corporate

Really? I thought that was more of a 1056-like strain?

 

[couchsending]

I’ve used it 3 times, it’s nothing like 1056. I was under the same impression as you and it couldn’t be any different. It’s a crazy top cropper and produces some cool red fruit like notes at higher temps.

 

[Tribe Fan]

Oh, nice! I usually overbuild starters and use a yeast for several to many beers; one thing I almost always have on tap is a best or ordinary bitter with 100% Golden Promise and a single hop, so I’ll probably start there.

My last batch (with all Bramling Cross and the WY1469 Yorkshire) finally dropped clear after about 2-3 weeks in the keg and is quite nice now... the black currant has shifted more to a slightly astringent black tea flavor. I think I’d prefer using this hop with some EKG, but I’m enjoying this SMaSH.

I have a 1469 with Golden Promise and 60L crystal, target bittering and first gold aroma in the fermenter now. It's been at 66F for 90 hours and I'm bumping it to 72F now to hopefully get rid of any diacetyl. It's been an open ferment with the lid loosely attached. Big thick cheesy krausen covering it.

How did you ferment your batch?

 

[ong]

I have a 1469 with Golden Promise and 60L crystal, target bittering and first gold aroma in the fermenter now. It's been at 66F for 90 hours and I'm bumping it to 72F now to hopefully get rid of any diacetyl. It's been an open ferment with the lid loosely attached. Big thick cheesy krausen covering it.

How did you ferment your batch?

I used similar temps, but I didn’t do an open fermentation (I’m not really set up for that, and I didn’t want to risk it).

FWIW my bitter eventually dropped clear and is very pleasant now. This yeast definitely takes its time clearing, but I would use it again (although I had to dump my banked sample because it got some lacto).

 

[kmarkstevens]

Received an email today that White Labs has released the yeast for the Yorkshire Squares. It will be mailed out in a few weeks. This is going to be fun to play with methinks.

 

[jfolks]

I’ve used it 3 times, it’s nothing like 1056. I was under the same impression as you and it couldn’t be any different. It’s a crazy top cropper and produces some cool red fruit like notes at higher temps.

Interesting. I know it’s marketed for Bruts. I did a fresh hop brut that turned out incredible. Haven’t done a NEIPA with it, but Corporate is my new go to for west coast style ipa

 

[kmarkstevens]

I'll be watching our suppliers here in the UK as well in the hope that it does show up. Any idea how long a vault strain remains in production?

My understanding is the White Labs does one single production run when the vault strain is released. Just my guesstimate that translates into something more than 250 orders (Maybe 300). The reason I say this is because about a year ago I went by the White Labs tasting room but only had about 15 minutes. So went thru a flight very quickly and asked the bar keep if they sold yeast in the tasting room. The Tasting room had a small shop with t shirts, glasses, etc but no yeast. He said yes and that they usually had pretty much everything. I asked for the WL85 English Ale blend, which I've checked at about 5 HBS and no one had even heard of it much less had it in stock. Two minutes later the bartender came back with a vial. I was far too rushed and wasn't sure if I would have problems with airport security (no officer, that's not anthrax it's beer yeast), so I only got the one strain. BTW, no issue taking it thru airport security.

I also listened to 's Jamil's Can You Brew It Black Sheep Riggwelter, and after failing on the first attempt, they called up White Labs who dug around and found a vial of the Yorkshire Squares.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Opps, I stand corrected. I re-listened to the Black Sheep Riggwelter podcast, and they use the Wyeast West Yorkshire yeast (also a seasonal that Wyeast keeps extra in stock), which I believe is the Samuel Smith strain.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Ha, got my Yorkshire Squares yeast in the mail today. just in time to brew this weekend and give me time to think about how best to do a second batch over Thanksgiving.

 

[ba-brewer]

Ha, got my Yorkshire Squares yeast in the mail today. just in time to brew this weekend and give me time to think about how best to do a second batch over Thanksgiving.

Is that the whitelabs wlp037 yeast from the vault. I have a beer fermenting with that one now and would like to hear how other have been doing with that yeast.

 

[ong]

Ha, got my Yorkshire Squares yeast in the mail today. just in time to brew this weekend and give me time to think about how best to do a second batch over Thanksgiving.

Same here. Thinking about just a simple 100% Golden Promise bitter with Goldings and Bramling Cross.

 

[ba-brewer]

Ha, got my Yorkshire Squares yeast in the mail today. just in time to brew this weekend and give me time to think about how best to do a second batch over Thanksgiving.

Same here. Thinking about just a simple 100% Golden Promise bitter with Goldings and Bramling Cross.

Did either of you brew with this yeast yet, if so how is it coming along?

 

[ong]

Did either of you brew with this yeast yet, if so how is it coming along?

Not yet, but I just freed up a fermenter! Probably will do a bitter this weekend.

 

[kmarkstevens]

ba-da-boom, ba-ba-brewer: Yes, WL37. Pitched my yeast yesterday. What are you brewing and how is it coming along?

Did my usual. Made a starter with ~1/2 of the WL37, and re-sealed the tube for a future starter. Also making extra starter right now so will have 3-4 first gen in canning jars to play with.

Did my second usual, which is a 6 gallon batch and split between 3 yeasties to see what I like. This time I made the Shut Up Barclay 1939 Boddington's Nut Brown Ale split between WL37, Wyeast West Yorkshire, and Nottingham (this forum yeast guru's recommended for the recipe and previously turned out really nicely). All three have a krausen in the garage at 60 F and I swirled them all today.

 

[ong]

I just got set up to autoclave a glycerin/water solution, so I’ve been freezing 3 tubes from each new package of yeast to raise up later. I’ll do several tubes with this guy, so I can come back to it if I like the bitter.

I’ve also been meaning to do a historical London brown (BCJP 27D). I know this probably isn’t the most historically accurate yeast for the style, but I’m tempted to try it out anyway. Although maybe it’s too attenuative? I’ll see how dry the bitter finishes.

 

[ba-brewer]

I have a simple Golden Promise and Target smash, mashed lower should come out in the best bitters ABV. Been going 10days and finally starting to slow a bit but there is still yeast in suspension even without rousing. My starter was quite chunk and dropped fast when I took it off the stirplate so I am surprise it is still going good at 10days.

My starter had a phenolic aroma which I figure came from the temp being ~70F but I also got some phenols from the fermentor at 62F. It was quite strong for the first two days but then it turned to more of a fruit punch aroma. Did you get any clove like aroma from your starter or fermentor?

 

[kmarkstevens]

ba-brewer. No clove aroma. Just very yeasty from the stir plate with maybe a little tropical overtone, and less so from the fermenter. The fermenter is in the garage at ~60F and stir plate ~70F.

The stir plate looks like a snow globe on steroids. But that's pretty typical for the highly flocculant English yeasts like 02 or Nottingham. And the clumps settle out about 10 seconds after turning off the stir plate, which also seems typical.

ong - I tried the autoclave glycerin thing, but with my freezer defrost cycle it was a miserable failure. I found that just a canning jar in the fridge keeps yeast viable (especially if you make a new starter) for a year easily. So I have gone that route.

 

[ba-brewer]

Thanks @kmarkstevens

 

[Northern_Brewer]

WLP037 and WLP038 are interesting as they're the only homebrew yeast known for certain to be POF+ British saison types - WPL026 Premium Bitter (124 to go) is a POF- member of the same family. But they're all Vault strains which haven't been released since their DNA data was properly unblinded. However, I believe Brewlab have a derivative of WLP037.

1469 is couldawouldashouldamaybe another POF+ member of the family, which would make sense, and would be a lot more convenient to use as it's a core strain for Wyeast. If 1469 is what I think it is, then it would be more closely related to 038 than 037.

For those that haven't seen, 1469 is another surprise in the latest genome sequencing results - it's in the main group of POF- UK brewery yeasts, in fact it looks like a Wyeast version of WLP022 Essex. So that's unexpected - it looks like something about the internet's version of what came from where is broken. Still - a nice yeast, but it means that the only homebrew sources of these kinds of yeasts are either obscure Vault strains or Brewlab (or if you can find one of Wiper & True's beers that use it, they do a blanche and a saison with it). If you're look at Brewlab's standard list of strains, actually quite a lot of them have some kind of phenolic character.

But yes, that clove thing is exactly what you'd expect from a POF+ yeast, which is what WLP037 is meant to be.

 

[ong]

Just kegged my WLP037 best bitter. I’m not convinced I love this yeast — a little more saison-y funk than I was hoping for. It will need some time to drop clear and carb up, so maybe that phenol taste will retreat a little. The hop schedule is nice, though, very fruity and interesting (equal parts Bramling Cross and EKG).

 

[ba-brewer]

Just kegged my WLP037 best bitter. I’m not convinced I love this yeast — a little more saison-y funk than I was hoping for. It will need some time to drop clear and carb up, so maybe that phenol taste will retreat a little. The hop schedule is nice, though, very fruity and interesting (equal parts Bramling Cross and EKG).

Sorry to hear you also got phenolic flavors but also glad it is just not me.

Mine has been chilling for almost two weeks which is about the normal time curiosity gets the better of me and I take a taste but I have zero interest. Maybe in another week I will give it a try, who knows maybe I will pleasantly surprised.

Someone did post recently that they got it to ferment at close to lager temps with no phenols, so I still have some hope.

 

[ong]

Someone did post recently that they got it to ferment at close to lager temps with no phenols, so I still have some hope.

I fermented at 63°, and brought it up to 70° for a couple days after it was close to projected FG. I just took another pour, and it’s drinkable, but still not my favorite. We’ll see how it does.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I'm still on a business trip to China but will bring up to 70 when I get home Friday and then bottle. Looking forward to seeing how the split batch comparison between Yorkshire Squares, West Yorkshire and Nottingham plays out.

Hoping for finding a diamond, but seems like some of these vault strains are not available full time for a reason.

 

[ong]

Tried it again — this is basically a saison. I’m bringing it to my club meeting tomorrow — will be interesting to hear what others think.

 

[ba-brewer]

Tried it again — this is basically a saison. I’m bringing it to my club meeting tomorrow — will be interesting to hear what others think.

There is some similarity to 3711 for sure, but cleaner I don't think I get any funky flavors or aroma. Almost 3 weeks in the keg without fining and it is very clear.