my buddy's demon child

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

By your own words he was screaming that he wanted to help you. LET HIM HELP!!! Give him a simple task like pushing the button on the vacuum sealer

He's a toddler, he's not stupid. He has a limited vocabulary, but knows how to manipulate it. "Help" is a code word he learned from his parents. it doesn't mean "I want to push a button when you tell me to" It means "I want to put my grubby little mitts in all these funny things and throw them the f#ck all over the place"

Smash his train set.

 

[Shooter]

He's a toddler, he's not stupid. He has a limited vocabulary, but knows how to manipulate it. "Help" is a code word he learned from his parents. it doesn't mean "I want to push a button when you tell me to" It means "I want to put my grubby little mitts in all these funny things and throw them the f#ck all over the place"

Smash his train set.

You, Sir, sound like you have a way with children. I'm surprised you haven't penned a manuscript on the subtle art of child rearing, a primer for the inept louts who pass as parents these days.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

You, Sir, sound like you have a way with children. I'm surprised you haven't penned a manuscript on the subtle art of child rearing, a primer for the inept louts who pass as parents these days.

Search "Get off my Lawn, You Little Bastard" It's #23 on Amazon!

 

[Yooper]

One thing I have learned about these "horrible annoying kids" threads, is that A: the OP does not have kids, and B the OP will never be convinced to see anything other than their own selfish view point.

Good luck to all the "I haven't read the thread" posters.

You know what, though? I HAVE kids, and now a grandchild. Everyday I see holy terrors running and jumping and screaming in the grocery stores while the hand wringing mother says, "Oh, Bobby, please don't throw things. That's not nice." This whole "me" generation of talking sweetly to our children and caring about their feelings had gotten out of hand. We have a society of sub-teens who think they are entitled to everything because their parents never said "NO- that's wrong."

I actually heard a mom tell her three-year-old "Please don't pull mommy's hair.". Um, please? How about this instead? "Hair pulling hurts. Stop it right now." We don't have to say please to ask for appropriate behavior. "Please" is for "pass the salt" not "Please don't hurt me!"

Also, for the non-child homes, why should the OP redirect the child? If the child is bored, it's the PARENTS who need to say, "Jimmy, you seem like you want to do something to help. Why don't you _______?" If the parents are friggin oblivious, it's not the OP's fault- it's their fault.

 

[annasdadhockey]

Meanwhile , the kid allowed to play as long as he is not being intentionally destructive goes on to become president.

The obedient kid who is slapped and ordered around by a drill seargent goes on to murder cereal.

:Note to self: update ignore list.

 

[cheezydemon3]

You know what, though? I HAVE kids, and now a grandchild. Everyday I see holy terrors running and jumping and screaming in the grocery stores while the hand wringing mother says, "Oh, Bobby, please don't throw things. That's not nice." This whole "me" generation of talking sweetly to our children and caring about their feelings had gotten out of hand. We have a society of sub-teens who think they are entitled to everything because their parents never said "NO- that's wrong."

I actually heard a mom tell her three-year-old "Please don't pull mommy's hair.". Um, please? How about this instead? "Hair pulling hurts. Stop it right now." We don't have to say please to ask for appropriate behavior. "Please" is for "pass the salt" not "Please don't hurt me!"

Also, for the non-child homes, why should the OP redirect the child? If the child is bored, it's the PARENTS who need to say, "Jimmy, you seem like you want to do something to help. Why don't you _______?" If the parents are friggin oblivious, it's not the OP's fault- it's their fault.

I was saying that it was the parents fault. I agree too that the immediate reward me generation is an over correction, but the heavy handed spanking generation before it was no more right.

I hate it worse to see a mom beating and screaming at her kids at a gas station because they aren't "minding" her.

 

[cheezydemon3]

:Note to self: update ignore list.

Note to self, feel sorry for anna. Suit yourself buddy.

 

[Shooter]

I actually heard a mom tell her three-year-old "Please don't pull mommy's hair.". Um, please? How about this instead? "Hair pulling hurts. Stop it right now." We don't have to say please to ask for appropriate behavior. "Please" is for "pass the salt" not "Please don't hurt me!"

I love it!!! Sometimes I get the disapproving look because I'll mention to a friend or coworker, "Man, my kids were really making me PO'd last night." Oh tsk, tsk, says their look.

Tsk, tsk to them. Just because everyone doesn't live up to their idealized model of the saintly parent then, "OH MY!" It's kind of like this thread. All these people telling the OP how he should have gently nurtured the child. Fair enough, of course they tell him that in the most nasty way sometimes. "You should have guided that boy....you f'ing MORON!!!" Pot meet kettle!

I told a good friend of mine who was thinking about having kids, but wasn't sure, that he needed to be sure because they can be the biggest headache in the world. He seemed puzzled with my advice until I told him, they can also be your greatest source of joy. Trying to be the "perfect" parent is a road that leads to ruin. Sometimes you'll mess up, sometimes you'll overreact, sometimes you'll want to scream...and welcome to life!

 

[Pappers_]

 

[cimirie]

I tried to hold it in, but after reading the 12th post about how the OP should check himself or get over himself and its just a boy being a boy, I had to say something.

First, good on you for setting the kid straight. I'm so sick of psychological excuses for today's kids. Yes, redirection is an effective method to deal with some children if you have patience and are trying to establish long-term behavior. The OP wasn't - he was trying to bag and tag his hops and devil child was messing it up.

That's not boys being boys - that's disrespect. Any parent who passes it off as "boys" is adding to the problem. At age 2 or age 17, children should respond to parents. Mom or Dad tells you to sit in a corner and not move, guess what? Don't move.

I'm not saying it's easy to get to that point. It takes a lot of parenting, but it's very achievable.

Get over himself? A child runs rough shod over one of his projects, the parents do nothing and somehow he's supposed to grit his teeth and bare it so some kid doesn't have to learn at a young age that respecting elders is important. Kids (and adults) respond to conditioning. Positive has been shown to be more effective, but negative IS an effective way to deter behavior. Yell at a kid, he's less likely to do it again.

Would I have said something in his shoes... Maybe not. But to tell the OP he handled it wrong sounds like over-psyched parents making excuses.

 

[cimirie]

I agree too that the immediate reward me generation is an over correction, but the heavy handed spanking generation before it was no more right.

Maybe not any more "right," but that approach was much more effective at raising a generation that respects elders and others in general, is polite, and doesn't have an over-inflated sense of self importance.

There are obviously rude, obtrusive, ego-maniacs from all generations. But they are becoming far more frequent mainly due to hand holding and putting the child's emotional well being ahead of the child's long-term societal well-being.

 

[northernlad]

There are too many posts here to respond to so I'll keep it to yours.
The first thing you should have said the first time he climbed on you was "Get off me" The second time should have been the last time and an automatic uninvite for the child. Crrapy parent's children are not cute. They are a pest, much like a tick or a flea.
Redirection is for hippies and people who want their children to be their friends.
My nephews have not been taught how to control themselves around things that don't belong to them and they get an earful almost every time they are at my house. One of them pulled the pitchfork out of my compost pile and swung it around until he hit a neighbor kid. WTF? Kepp your grubby little dickskinners off things that aren't yours. This can be taught to a child before they can speak.
Your house, your rules.

 

[northernlad]

Sorry for the double post but I read this after...

Maybe not any more "right," but that approach was much more effective at raising a generation that respects elders and others in general, is polite, and doesn't have an over-inflated sense of self importance.

There are obviously rude, obtrusive, ego-maniacs from all generations. But they are becoming far more frequent mainly due to hand holding and putting the child's emotional well being ahead of the child's long-term societal well-being.

If the bleeding hearts are so worried about the emotional well being of a child I challenge them to look at how many gun toting sociopaths there are now versus 40 years ago when a kid got a good ass whupping as punishment.

 

[scrambledegg81]

Here's the gist I got:

1) Kid jumped all over OP's hops, demanded to help, potentially contaminating said hops, and obviously frustrating OP.

2) Kid's parents saw OP getting frustrated, and made a half-hearted attempt to stop kid from being frustrating to OP.

3) Kid did not stop, further pissing off OP to the point of having to ask parents to control kid before it came to punts or duct tape. One parent takes it as personal attack on her parenting skills. Fuming and mumbled curses ensue.

Boil it all down:
Parents are responsible for showing kids what is and is not proper behavior, and in this case, improper behavior was not negatively enforced. Hence, kid will continue to act out. It's not "being a kid", it's not a matter of OP "over-reacting", it's bad parenting. Straight & simple.

(No I don't have kids, and yes, I am a Green Party member. )

 

[EoinMag]

Get over himself? A child runs rough shod over one of his projects, the parents do nothing and somehow he's supposed to grit his teeth and bare it so some kid doesn't have to learn at a young age that respecting elders is important. Kids (and adults) respond to conditioning. Positive has been shown to be more effective, but negative IS an effective way to deter behavior. Yell at a kid, he's less likely to do it again.

Would I have said something in his shoes... Maybe not. But to tell the OP he handled it wrong sounds like over-psyched parents making excuses.

Hmmm he should man up if he has a problem with anyones behaviour in his house, if he values the relationship with the parents, he needs to be careful about how he does it. What did he do?

If he raised his voice in my house I'd have punched him in the mouth...he could have handled it better.

The parents could also have handled it better, but he's on here being a ***** about how a 3 year old got the better of him.

I don't have issues with my own three year old, that said he's learning self-awareness at the moment and is getting to be a bit of a handful, but he's being taught what is right and we'll get over it soon with no damage to anyone.

Short story, the OP was beaten by a 3 year old and comes on here complaining about the parents not parenting and the THREE year old being a demon child, tchah.

 

[superjunior]

too many replies to address each one. as some have suggested here, no, I do not have kids. wife and I chose not to. We have a 5 yr old nephew that we love dearly and he has his moments like any other kid, but he's a very well behaved boy. One of my best Friends has 2 boys that are now 15 and 17. I watched these kids grow up from child birth to present time and they are respectful young men because they were brought up properly. My Friend was never afraid to give em the belt if need be. As to my other Friends with the demon boy, they are just flat out bad parents, great people but not mentally mature enough (more so the wife) for parenting. thanks for all the replies, well all accept eoinmag

 

[EoinMag]

too many replies to address each one. as some have suggested here, no, I do not have kids. wife and I chose not to. We have a 5 yr old nephew that we love dearly and he has his moments like any other kid, but he's a very well behaved boy. One of my best Friends has 2 boys that are now 15 and 17. I watched these kids grow up from child birth to present time and they are respectful young men because they were brought up properly. My Friend was never afraid to give em the belt if need be. As to my other Friends with the demon boy, they are just flat out bad parents, great people but not mentally mature enough (more so the wife) for parenting. thanks for all the replies, well all accept eoinmag

You're welcome dude, maybe some day you'll grow up too

 

[Pappers_]

I thought the OP was fine. And the the first few pages of replies, back and forth, were ok, too.

But now, after all these pages of ill-informed, poorly-reasoned, fantasy-based, cantankerous, argumentative and just plain bad posts, I nominate this thread for the coveted "Worst Thread Outside of the Debate Forum Award." [/FONT]

This thread is even more deserving than the one where the guy imploded and started calling everyone (including moderators) very naughty names. But that thread was at least amusing, until he was sent into exile.

This one just makes my head hurt.

 

[MBasile]

Whenever I'm in a situation like that, I pull the kid out of the situation and look to the parents to avoid it from happening again. I used to work in a small retail store and kids would throw **** everywhere. I'd stop them and then tell the parents to watch them, otherwise it was more of a mess for me to clean up. Dealing with the kids can easily be done without yelling at or harming the child. A simple "No." from a stranger (someone they are not use to rebelling against) usually stuns them for long enough that they stop destroying whatever it is they've gotten their hands on.

DISCLAIMER: I have not read anything beyond the original post.

 

[Pappers_]

DISCLAIMER: I have not read anything beyond the original post.

You are so fortunate . . .

 

[superjunior]

I thought the OP was fine. And the the first few pages of replies, back and forth, were ok, too.

But now, after all these pages of ill-informed, poorly-reasoned, fantasy-based, cantankerous, argumentative and just plain bad posts, I nominate this thread for the coveted "Worst Thread Outside of the Debate Forum Award." [/FONT]

This thread is even more deserving than the one where the guy imploded and started calling everyone (including moderators) very naughty names. But that thread was at least amusing, until he was sent into exile.

This one just makes my head hurt.

sorry pappers, didn't meen to start a " how to raise a child " debate or any other type of heated argument for that matter. I was simply venting about a very un-comfortable situation I found myself in.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Herod was a decent guy. He was just misunderstood.

 

[cimirie]

If he raised his voice in my house I'd have punched him in the mouth...he could have handled it better.

The parents could also have handled it better, but he's on here being a ***** about how a 3 year old got the better of him.

Short story, the OP was beaten by a 3 year old and comes on here complaining about the parents not parenting and the THREE year old being a demon child, tchah.

If you allowed your child to behave that way in my house, it would be you who deserves the punch in the mouth. The point is, teach
Your child manners or physically control your child. Pick one.

A parent taking a child's side and making excuses for them at the expense of others is just plain lazy (or apathy or pompt).

The OP didn't get beat by a three year old. He was giving the parents the first crack at making a correction (which is appropriate). When they didn't, he was the only adult that took any action. Finally, mommy woke up and did her job.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

People seem to be getting all bent out of shape because the thread is about children.
Let's take the kid out of the equation.
If the visitor's car pissed oil over the owner's driveway, would the car owners feel a responsibility to clean up the mess their car left?
If they brought along their dog, and it crapped on the floor, who should feel obliged to clean that up?

The kid is the visitor's responsibility and no one else's. They brought the sprog into the world, and they are in charge of it. The OP has no responsibility toward raising other people's offspring.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Hey IP.

My 2 year old son has been the picture of discipline and good behavior. Now, 1 month before he turns 3, he is testing his boundaries. He is a "demon child". There should be boundaries, but what 3 year old didn't act out?

How do kids learn if they NEVER break the rules.

We humans have short memories. Any 3 year old that never acts out is stifled and probably beaten.

Show me a child that never acted out, and I will show you someone who will never have self esteem or the courage to act on their own.

I 100% agree that kids will and need to test boundaries. That's not the debate here. The debate is who's responsibility it is to set the ground rules in the first place, and then correct the child when he does test his boundaries too far. I admit I let my son do a lot more when Mommy isn't around, but nothing that will make him believe he doesn't have to listen or respect us or those around him.

You know what, though? I HAVE kids, and now a grandchild. Everyday I see holy terrors running and jumping and screaming in the grocery stores while the hand wringing mother says, "Oh, Bobby, please don't throw things. That's not nice." This whole "me" generation of talking sweetly to our children and caring about their feelings had gotten out of hand. We have a society of sub-teens who think they are entitled to everything because their parents never said "NO- that's wrong."

I actually heard a mom tell her three-year-old "Please don't pull mommy's hair.". Um, please? How about this instead? "Hair pulling hurts. Stop it right now." We don't have to say please to ask for appropriate behavior. "Please" is for "pass the salt" not "Please don't hurt me!"

Also, for the non-child homes, why should the OP redirect the child? If the child is bored, it's the PARENTS who need to say, "Jimmy, you seem like you want to do something to help. Why don't you _______?" If the parents are friggin oblivious, it's not the OP's fault- it's their fault.

+1

I was saying that it was the parents fault. I agree too that the immediate reward me generation is an over correction, but the heavy handed spanking generation before it was no more right.

I hate it worse to see a mom beating and screaming at her kids at a gas station because they aren't "minding" her.

The thing is, these two cases, although to the outsider are polar opposites, both represent the same problem. Parents that don't take the time to set and consistently enforce rules. The only difference is the calmness level of the parent. Both have no control over their child through a lack of parenting. One is just timid and cowers to the beast child, where the other is aggressive and believes intimidation will control the beast child. Both are wrong and, IMO, lazy in their parenting.

People seem to be getting all bent out of shape because the thread is about children.
Let's take the kid out of the equation.
If the visitor's car pissed oil over the owner's driveway, would the car owners feel a responsibility to clean up the mess their car left?
If they brought along their dog, and it crapped on the floor, who should feel obliged to clean that up?

The kid is the visitor's responsibility and no one else's. They brought the sprog into the world, and they are in charge of it. The OP has no responsibility toward raising other people's offspring.

This is a good point. People get very defensive when it comes to their parenting and children. If I take my dog to your house, it is my responsibility to have my eye on that dog the entire time. Not meaning I can't enjoy myself, but I will have tabs on that dog. The key point being, the dog being taught in advance what is acceptable and what is not.
That being said, my dogs are not well behaved, they live in the back yard. They chase birds and kill rabbits. They don't go places with us. They are not our children.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Excellent post IP, and let me apologize.

I am a little defensive due to the sheer # of threads that involve Airplanes and grocery stores and other no real option situations where selfish people bitch that some kid was crying half the plane ride.

This is clearly NOT that kind of situation.

In those situations, feel sorry for the kid and the parents. The kid is sick or just REALLY unhappy and the parent has to endure that nonstop, you just get a brief glimpse.

The question here is "what were the parents thinking? Did they understand the value of hops?" it is possible they did not know what the stuff was or what was going on.

Either way DEMONIZING a kid is what I had a problem with.

Fault lies with the parents until at least the age of 8 or so.

All the people saying that a 3 or 4 year old should be absolutely behaved, speak only when spoken to, etc, either beat the sh!t out of their kids, or flat out don't remember that age.

I am going through it.

My 3 year old throws a tantrum when a commercial comes on during spongebob, he thinks I changed the channel. Does that make him a demon? No, he just doesn't understand enough about this world yet to react in a rational way. It takes experience, not an exorcist to learn how to behave and react properly in different situations.

I am ABSOLUTELY OK with someone correcting my kids if I am distracted or not there, so long as it falls short of yelling or spanking or cursing, etc.

 

[EoinMag]

Excellent post IP, and let me apologize.

I am a little defensive due to the sheer # of threads that involve Airplanes and grocery stores and other no real option situations where selfish people bitch that some kid was crying half the plane ride.

This is clearly NOT that kind of situation.

In those situations, feel sorry for the kid and the parents. The kid is sick or just REALLY unhappy and the parent has to endure that nonstop, you just get a brief glimpse.

The question here is "what were the parents thinking? Did they understand the value of hops?" it is possible they did not know what the stuff was or what was going on.

Either way DEMONIZING a kid is what I had a problem with.

Fault lies with the parents until at least the age of 8 or so.

All the people saying that a 3 or 4 year old should be absolutely behaved, speak only when spoken to, etc, either beat the sh!t out of their kids, or flat out don't remember that age.

I am going through it.

My 3 year old throws a tantrum when a commercial comes on during spongebob, he thinks I changed the channel. Does that make him a demon? No, he just doesn't understand enough about this world yet to react in a rational way. It takes experience, not an exorcist to learn how to behave and react properly in different situations.

I am ABSOLUTELY OK with someone correcting my kids if I am distracted or not there, so long as it falls short of yelling or spanking or cursing, etc.

+1 I have a three year old at home.


Do I think the parents were wrong, absolutely?

Do I think the OP knows this and should have stepped up and done what he needed to, absolutely?

Do I think he handled it really badly by raising his voice to someone elses child (in their own home no less, where he was a guest), absolutely?

Do I think you can Blame a three year old for anything, not really?

The kid is three, the parents are at fault, no doubt, but the OP was wrong in how he handled it.

 

[cheezydemon3]

A small part of me also thinks....(sorry) JUST MAYBE... the parents were having a day from hell already, stopped in at a friends house to get some adult/adult time someplace that is usually kid friendly and were stretched a little thin and not paying attention like they should? Could happen to anyone.(unless this is just what ALWAYS happens with them)

*We had a neighbor child over (1st time) and he evidently threw rocks at my neighbor's car........The neighbor told my wife about it. BRAVO. He then proceeded to scream and CUSS at my kids, my wife, and this other kid for 15 minutes.

Had he not manned up and apologized to her before I got home, my FIRST stop, before telling my kids that they were wrong for not running and telling mommy that the kid was throwing rocks, and before telling my wife that the kid is NEVER to come over again, would have been to knock on that guy's door and inform him that if he EVER speaks to my wife and kids that way again, there will be a SERIOUS problems Physical, call the police kind of problems. Even if MY KIDS had thrown the rocks HE NEEDS TO TALK TO ME.If he is justified, he can yell and cuss at me with no complaint from me. Raise your voice to my kids and YOU are the one in the wrong.*

 

[IrregularPulse]

Excellent post IP, and let me apologize.

I am a little defensive due to the sheer # of threads that involve Airplanes and grocery stores and other no real option situations where selfish people bitch that some kid was crying half the plane ride.

This is clearly NOT that kind of situation.

In those situations, feel sorry for the kid and the parents. The kid is sick or just REALLY unhappy and the parent has to endure that nonstop, you just get a brief glimpse.

Agreed. This does not indicate a bad kid, despite how it may look to an outsider

Either way DEMONIZING a kid is what I had a problem with.
agreed. I feel bad for my 3 (4 this weekend) year old niece. It's sad because we dread being around her when it's not her fault. We have to keep reminding ourselves she can be a good kid with the right guidance...AKA without her parents around.

Fault lies with the parents until at least the age of 8 or so.

All the people saying that a 3 or 4 year old should be absolutely behaved, speak only when spoken to, etc, either beat the sh!t out of their kids, or flat out don't remember that age.

I am going through it.

My 3 year old throws a tantrum when a commercial comes on during spongebob, he thinks I changed the channel. Does that make him a demon? No, he just doesn't understand enough about this world yet to react in a rational way. It takes experience, not an exorcist to learn how to behave and react properly in different situations.

Agreed, the difference in good/bad parenting is how one reacts to the tantrums. Expecting them not to happen is being naive.

I am ABSOLUTELY OK with someone correcting my kids if I am distracted or not there, so long as it falls short of yelling or spanking or cursing, etc.

agreed

A small part of me also thinks....(sorry) JUST MAYBE... the parents were having a day from hell already, stopped in at a friends house to get some adult/adult time someplace that is usually kid friendly and were stretched a little thin and not paying attention like they should? Could happen to anyone.(unless this is just what ALWAYS happens with them)

I agree this can probably happen, although you don't get a day off from your kids despite how tried you are, but the OP mentioned that this kid is constantly this way and is known by others for being this way.

 

[Airborneguy]

Do I think he handled it really badly by raising his voice to someone elses child (in their own home no less, where he was a guest), absolutely?

A few nights ago I was over at a Friends weighing up and packaging fresh hops. our other buddy and his wife and kid showed up to help.

Just sayin'