Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[eigua]

That sounds like a great idea. Pounding on the yeast balls, not getting it everywhere, and layering it throughout the rice was annoying. I will definitely try it your way next time, thanks!

Actually, I don't think it works very well. My first 2 batches I did by blending, once in a blender and once with a stick blender. The result is a slurry that's extremely difficult to filter -- much moreso than when the grains are left whole.

Edit: Oops, re-read the original post and noticed he didn't blend the rice, just the balls.

 

[madwilliamflint]

Actually, I don't think it works very well. My first 2 batches I did by blending, once in a blender and once with a stick blender. The result is a slurry that's extremely difficult to filter -- much moreso than when the grains are left whole.

Edit: Oops, re-read the original post and noticed he didn't blend the rice, just the balls.

heh.

Though I've actually been wondering about that as well. Filtration aside, does it produce a greater yield?

 

[eigua]

heh.

Though I've actually been wondering about that as well. Filtration aside, does it produce a greater yield?

It's hard to tell. I did it twice, both times with normal long-grained rice. One batch had a bunch of red yeast rice too. The RYR batch definitely had better yield and more alcohol. The other batch was basically non-alcoholic. It's tough to gauge yield also because you're adding a lot of extra water.

 

[user 211287]

I use a small spice grinder. Add however many partially crushed yeast balls with a few tablespoons of RYR. Run the grinder but take care not to get it hot. Just pulse the grinder until its a coarse powder.

Spread the powder over the cooked/cooled rice. Mix and add more powder until its reasonably covered. Pack it all in a jar. If you keep a faucet running, wetting your hand occasionally helps with any sticking.

 

[Jbrew]

So i started a batch 4 days ago. I used 4 cups sushi rice and 4 golden lion yeast balls. Added yeast and mixed a bit when the rice was probably about 105 degrees.
Capped with a sanatized rag and then the jar lid on top. I have fuzzy white on top, but no liquid at all yet.
Also ive noticed that the fuzzy white mold has very very small black spots in places.
Is this spores?
Does this sound abnormal?
Sorry if this was asked before, i read thru the first 56 pages and didnt see anyone having a similar experience.
Thanks

 

[eigua]

So i started a batch 4 days ago. I used 4 cups sushi rice and 4 golden lion yeast balls. Added yeast and mixed a bit when the rice was probably about 105 degrees.
Capped with a sanatized rag and then the jar lid on top. I have fuzzy white on top, but no liquid at all yet.
Also ive noticed that the fuzzy white mold has very very small black spots in places.
Is this spores?
Does this sound abnormal?
Sorry if this was asked before, i read thru the first 56 pages and didnt see anyone having a similar experience.
Thanks

It's asked every month or so it seems. Too bad there's no thread search on this site.

Mold is normal. It's in the "yeast" ball and is responsible for converting the rice starch to sugar so the yeast can eat it. Some people never see the mold fuzz or spore. Theories have been suggested saying higher water content, warmer temperature, and even lack of oxygen will make it spore. I have no idea. All I know is every batch I've ever made has visible mold.

4 days isn't necessarily long enough to see liquefaction, but generally you should cool the rice to room temperature before adding the "yeast" ball.

 

[Jbrew]

Thank you for the reply. I knew that the mold was common but hadnt heard about the little black spots. As for adding yeast when hot, towards the beginning of the thread, I had read that adding the yeast when the rice was just cool enough to handle and then capping it to capture condensation. Regardless of how this batch comes out, i will try again, and will add the yeast to the rice once it has cooled a bit more.
Thank you again.

 

[eigua]

Thank you for the reply. I knew that the mold was common but hadnt heard about the little black spots. As for adding yeast when hot, towards the beginning of the thread, I had read that adding the yeast when the rice was just cool enough to handle and then capping it to capture condensation. Regardless of how this batch comes out, i will try again, and will add the yeast to the rice once it has cooled a bit more.
Thank you again.

Most of the time I see black dots on the ends of the white strands.

I think just about everyone has their own technique. Some think more water can cause souring and spoilage while others think it helps increase the alcohol level. There are so many variations of rice wine, it almost seems like there's no wrong way to do it. That's not to say every batch is successful.

 

[JoshMcMadMac]

Too bad there's no thread search on this site.

Top-right of the page, under the page number for the thread.

 

[eigua]

Top-right of the page, under the page number for the thread.

I swear I had seen it before right there but when I posted it was not there... Aha. It doesn't show up if you're logged out. I wasn't logged in at the time because Chrome lost my cookies after some updates and reboots.

 

[sarthak]

Can i make the wine in refrigerator? The highest temperature my refrigerator can produce is about 10C-12C. Last time i made this wine with ARL, it was winters and the temperature was about 16c-24c. Now in summers, the average temp is somewhere about 30C-32C. Also, last time the wine was too tart. I steamed the rice for 1.25 hours until they were chewy, let them cool, put them in a ceramic jar and added the ARL. Then i added bakers yeast after one week mark upon not seeing any alcohol and then the Alcohol smell increased. I plan on using Cote Des Blanc yeast or Montrachet this time as i have heard they preserve fruitiness.

When being made again with ARL, What steps should i use to achieve less/No tartness, more clarity(Transparent prefered), more fruity wine?

How does this wine age? What is the temp required for this?

Edit: @tbig, i think you have made some experiments with this; Can you please comment on this? And on adding yeast to the rice? after how much time to add yeast? i read cote des blanc works 50F-80F so its good in fridge, and it does not result to complete dryness near 50F. Use of ARL? i dont have access to yeast balls.

"

Yes, if you are at a temp the yeast will work in. But even in the 30's degree F temps of my garage, it doesn't slow it down much, and I think the enzymes not at all. I get a lot of conversion to liquid in the first 48 hours, and for the next few days after that, the rice is actually delicious. Very sweet like a rice pudding. After the first week though, the yeast has started going to town and eats up that sweetness in a hurry.

At whatever temps you make the rice wine, it takes a long time to finish completely. That's why many end up heating/sterilizing it. Even after a couple months you can have bottle bombs. After a couple weeks you can probably drink it after straining, but I just follow my Chinese friend's instruction. One month on the rice.. no more, no less. That's when I strain off the solids. But then I get it into a glass carboy and let it completely finish and clear on its own. I've tried to rush it and bottle it sooner, but ended up with some sediment in the bottom after a while. Reminds me of making mead... it just takes time and patience if you want it nice and clear without additives. If you're the type that doesn't mind your drink a bit cloudy, like a wheat beer, then it'll be ready for you way before that. A bit different flavors. Some have liked that better than the finished clear stuff. To each his/her own?

What I haven't tried since I make large batches of at least 10lbs rice, nearly filling a 7.5 gal brewing bucket, and I know I get changes in temps in the garage. Someone might try mixing a smaller batch, mix in the yeast balls, then store it in the fridge. See how if it works at a steady low temp? Some fridges only get into the low 40's and I think it would work perfect if the wife doesn't kick you out and you have some space for it.

"

 

[eigua]

Can i make the wine in refrigerator? The highest temperature my refrigerator can produce is about 10C-12C. Last time i made this wine with ARL, it was winters and the temperature was about 16c-24c. Now in summers, the average temp is somewhere about 30C-32C. Also, last time the wine was too tart. I steamed the rice for 1.25 hours until they were chewy, let them cool, put them in a ceramic jar and added the ARL. Then i added bakers yeast after one week mark upon not seeing any alcohol and then the Alcohol smell increased. I plan on using Cote Des Blanc yeast or Montrachet this time as i have heard they preserve fruitiness.

When being made again with ARL, What steps should i use to achieve less/No tartness, more clarity(Transparent prefered), more fruity wine?

How does this wine age? What is the temp required for this?

Edit: @tbig, i think you have made some experiments with this; Can you please comment on this? And on adding yeast to the rice? after how much time to add yeast? i read cote des blanc works 50F-80F so its good in fridge, and it does not result to complete dryness near 50F. Use of ARL? i dont have access to yeast balls.

""

I tried making it in the fridge and it didn't work. My fridge temp was lower though. I plan on trying again in case it was just a fluke.

My posts on the topic:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7877018&postcount=5718
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7902110&postcount=5722
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7924862&postcount=5733

 

[sarthak]

I tried making it in the fridge and it didn't work. My fridge temp was lower though. I plan on trying again in case it was just a fluke.

My posts on the topic:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7877018&postcount=5718
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7902110&postcount=5722
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7924862&postcount=5733

Maybe try to make the ARL/yeast balls work first by letting them sit in warm temp, so that it can grow good amount of mold; get the process going. The packet of ARL says to keep the rice and arl mix in 30C for 2-3 days to get fermented rice. Which is what we want. THEN, put in the yeast and keep it in the fridge. I have yet to try out, because i dont drink much, just have this strange itch to make this rice wine.

 

[eigua]

Maybe try to make the ARL/yeast balls work first by letting them sit in warm temp, so that it can grow good amount of mold; get the process going. The packet of ARL says to keep the rice and arl mix in 30C for 2-3 days to get fermented rice. Which is what we want. THEN, put in the yeast and keep it in the fridge. I have yet to try out, because i dont drink much, just have this strange itch to make this rice wine.

That's a good idea. I will probably be starting another batch soon as well. I'll do two -- one in the fridge from the start again and one leaving it out for about 4-5 days depending on liquid level, then move it to the fridge. I almost never drink anymore either, but I like homebrewing and in particular making rice wine a lot. I just pasteurize and keep it stored for the random occasion I decide to have some.

I need to get some ARL too. That would be fun to experiment with. I can't find it locally in San Francisco in Chinatown or the bigger east Asian stores. I could check a Korean store I suppose, but there's only one small one I know of in the city. Either that or ebay.

 

[sarthak]

That's a good idea. I will probably be starting another batch soon as well. I'll do two -- one in the fridge from the start again and one leaving it out for about 4-5 days depending on liquid level, then move it to the fridge. I almost never drink anymore either, but I like homebrewing and in particular making rice wine a lot. I just pasteurize and keep it stored for the random occasion I decide to have some.

I need to get some ARL too. That would be fun to experiment with. I can't find it locally in San Francisco in Chinatown or the bigger east Asian stores. I could check a Korean store I suppose, but there's only one small one I know of in the city. Either that or ebay.

eBay is good. If you want to wait sometime, get it from aliexpress, china. They manufacture ARL so it's very cheap.

Edit: I found this temperature range on a rice wine yeast description. So it would be good to ferment the wine at 20-25 for about 2 weeks and then add yeast for alcohol and store at low temp.

 

[eigua]

eBay is good. If you want to wait sometime, get it from aliexpress, china. They manufacture ARL so it's very cheap.

Edit: I found this temperature range on a rice wine yeast description. So it would be good to ferment the wine at 20-25 for about 2 weeks and then add yeast for alcohol and store at low temp.

Thanks for the tip! Interesting about these directions. I'll reference them if I get some ARL.

 

[ethics_gradient]

Interesting. My first attempt came out similar to what sarthak just described, but didn't see anyone else having the same problem in the thread over the 1-2 times I skimmed it in the last two months or so!

I suspect it was too cold, temperatures in my apartment wouldn't have been over 16C. I used some 2 year old sushi rice, steamed, about 6-7 cups worth, with some Chinese yeast balls. Gave it 4 weeks, definitely got a strong acetone smell around week 2, although it mellowed out over time.

Yield was low compared to what I was reading, maybe 500mLs, although I was finding it frustrating to squeeze the lees and probably could have gotten another 100-200mLs if I'd stuck with it. Came out very tart and with a relatively low ABV, maybe like ~8-10% based on how I felt after a glass. I actually didn't mind the tartness too much as I like sipping on things with a strong taste (black coffee, whiskey, etc), but I wouldn't offer it to anyone else, so I considered the batch a failure. It did play nicely with some raspberry cordial.

Despite this, I'm encouraged to try again, as it seems like most people are quite happy with the results when it's done correctly. I've been making beer for about a year and a half, and this is kind of a fun departure. I ordered some ARL from China, which arrived a week or two ago. RYR seems impossible to find in Australia; nobody seems to sell it online, and the two bigger Asian grocers in town said although they'd had it in the past, don't carry it now. I've got a Chinese friend who owes me a favour, so I might put them on it...

I picked up some 3.8L glass jars from KMart ($7/ea, have a cork stopper) and two 5kg sacks of rice from the big Asian grocery/restaurant supply store. In addition to doing side-by-side ARL vs yeast balls, I'm trying both Thai glutinous and Thai jasmine rice, before committing to one of the 25kg sacks, which are a lot more cost effective. I kinda stuffed up a bit when I was making it; steaming 12 cups of Jasmine was taking ages so I wound up dumping it in to the water after a while then stirring it up and letting it sit... which actually came out perfectly. I tried just straight water with the glutinous (1.5 cups per 1 cup dry glutinous rice) and it was waaay too much water, poured a fair bit of it off. Seemed to come out OK in the end, but so much for consistant methodology. I also forgot to StarSan the first jar, although from what I understand this stuff isn't as precious about infection as beer is.

I've placed them in my fermentation chamber for now, which is in the low 20s (have a pale ale in there right now). I'd like to remove them after a few days so I can put my JOAM back in (I suspect a stalled fermentation there due to low temps as well), but we'll see.

Does anyone have suggestions for steaming large batches? Assuming I can get something to turn out drinkable, I'd like to scale up to fermenting in the 30L PET buckets I have, and I think my eBIAB rig could work pretty well. It's a Bayou-type kettle with the perforated SS bucket, which sits above the waterline + heating element. I figured adding the rice (in a BIAB bag) and steaming would work. Does the rice need stirring when being steamed in large batches? It seemed cumbersome to get to the stuff on the bottom, but likely that it would overcook if I didn't. My usual method of cooking rice on the stove is the 1.5:1 in water, which turns out fine, but wouldn't work given the element is inside the kettle in this case.

 

[sarthak]

I have made a new batch with just 150grams of rice and 2grams of ARL. Put it in fridge at 8C-10C just to experiment. Will post updates. From what i have read, ARL has rhizopus Orzyae which is different from aspergillus oryzae(yeast balls/koji). R Orzyae produces more Lactic acid along with alcohol which makes wine more sour. Lactic acid production is reduced at or below 10C, so I am expecting a sweeter result this time.

Interesting. My first attempt came out similar to what sarthak just described, but didn't see anyone else having the same problem in the thread over the 1-2 times I skimmed it in the last two months or so!

I suspect it was too cold, temperatures in my apartment wouldn't have been over 16C. I used some 2 year old sushi rice, steamed, about 6-7 cups worth, with some Chinese yeast balls. Gave it 4 weeks, definitely got a strong acetone smell around week 2, although it mellowed out over time.

Yield was low compared to what I was reading, maybe 500mLs, although I was finding it frustrating to squeeze the lees and probably could have gotten another 100-200mLs if I'd stuck with it. Came out very tart and with a relatively low ABV, maybe like ~8-10% based on how I felt after a glass. I actually didn't mind the tartness too much as I like sipping on things with a strong taste (black coffee, whiskey, etc), but I wouldn't offer it to anyone else, so I considered the batch a failure. It did play nicely with some raspberry cordial.

Despite this, I'm encouraged to try again, as it seems like most people are quite happy with the results when it's done correctly. I've been making beer for about a year and a half, and this is kind of a fun departure. I ordered some ARL from China, which arrived a week or two ago. RYR seems impossible to find in Australia; nobody seems to sell it online, and the two bigger Asian grocers in town said although they'd had it in the past, don't carry it now. I've got a Chinese friend who owes me a favour, so I might put them on it...

I picked up some 3.8L glass jars from KMart ($7/ea, have a cork stopper) and two 5kg sacks of rice from the big Asian grocery/restaurant supply store. In addition to doing side-by-side ARL vs yeast balls, I'm trying both Thai glutinous and Thai jasmine rice, before committing to one of the 25kg sacks, which are a lot more cost effective. I kinda stuffed up a bit when I was making it; steaming 12 cups of Jasmine was taking ages so I wound up dumping it in to the water after a while then stirring it up and letting it sit... which actually came out perfectly. I tried just straight water with the glutinous (1.5 cups per 1 cup dry glutinous rice) and it was waaay too much water, poured a fair bit of it off. Seemed to come out OK in the end, but so much for consistant methodology. I also forgot to StarSan the first jar, although from what I understand this stuff isn't as precious about infection as beer is.

I've placed them in my fermentation chamber for now, which is in the low 20s (have a pale ale in there right now). I'd like to remove them after a few days so I can put my JOAM back in (I suspect a stalled fermentation there due to low temps as well), but we'll see.

Does anyone have suggestions for steaming large batches? Assuming I can get something to turn out drinkable, I'd like to scale up to fermenting in the 30L PET buckets I have, and I think my eBIAB rig could work pretty well. It's a Bayou-type kettle with the perforated SS bucket, which sits above the waterline + heating element. I figured adding the rice (in a BIAB bag) and steaming would work. Does the rice need stirring when being steamed in large batches? It seemed cumbersome to get to the stuff on the bottom, but likely that it would overcook if I didn't. My usual method of cooking rice on the stove is the 1.5:1 in water, which turns out fine, but wouldn't work given the element is inside the kettle in this case.

See this Official sake making video . They steam big quantities.

 

[chonas]

@ethics

Easiest way to cook large quantities of rice: find your biggest oven safe/oven fitting pot. Determine it's volume and divide by 2.3. This is your rice amount. Multiply rice amount by 1.3 and this is your water amount.

Step 1: Preheat oven to 350.
Step 2: Bring water determined in prestep to boil (covered).
Step 2a: Remove from heat.
Step 3: Stir in predetermined rice quantity ASAP.
Step 4: Place covered cooking vessel into oven for 20-45 minutes depending on volume.
Step 5: Spread cooked rice onto surface to cool to 80-100F.
Step 6: Add 1/4 tsp ARL per liter of cooked rice, and the juice of 1 lemon per 5 gallons.
Step 7: Place in breathable container (preferably at 96F) for 24-48 hours.
Step 8: If there is some liquid in the container, add fermenting yeast (1116 and WLP099 are my favorites so far), and seal w/ bubbler/blowoff.

This method of cooking will turn the rice in the very center a bit mushy, but overall has satisfactory results. Without a commercial rice cooker, it's the best method I've found so far.

 

[wongjau]

[deleted double post]

 

[wongjau]

It's a Bayou-type kettle with the perforated SS bucket, which sits above the waterline + heating element. I figured adding the rice (in a BIAB bag) and steaming would work. Does the rice need stirring when being steamed in large batches? It seemed cumbersome to get to the stuff on the bottom, but likely that it would overcook if I didn't. My usual method of cooking rice on the stove is the 1.5:1 in water, which turns out fine, but wouldn't work given the element is inside the kettle in this case.

That setup should work. Make sure the bucket is well above the water line.

No need to stir. Line the bucket with parchment paper. Layer the rice about 2-3 inches thick.

Steam is nice because you don't need to play around with water/rice ratios. Just soak overnight and steam. Comes out perfect every time.

Better for fermenting too because the consistent and discrete grains break down in a controlled way to gradually feed the rhizopus, lactobacillus, and yeast.

 

[wongjau]

Does anyone have suggestions for steaming large batches?

Just posted a long reply that somehow didn't show up. Trying again.

This is how I did 4lbs of rice this weekend.

Wash rice and soak for 24 hrs.

Set up a 13 gal kettle on the stove.



Put a 2 gallon kettle inside the 13 and add water to both. Bring to a boil and turn down to low.



Get a steamer basket ready. I made this one by drilling a bunch of holes in the cheap aluminum fry kettle that came with my propane burner.



Get a square of parchment paper and fold into sixteenths.



Cut slits into the paper.



Unfold the paper and line the basket. You can wet the paper to help keep it in place.



Layer the drained rice into the basket. Press it all the way to the sides. Poke some holes into the rice layer.



Set the basket into the big kettle.



Cover and bring back to a very slow boil and steam for one hour.



Get a strainer ready.



After the rice is done, remove from the big kettle. Remove the 2 gallon pot and pour the water from it all over the strainer. Silicone oven mitts are handy here.

Rinse and drain the rice 2 times with cold water. Stir to separate and cool the grains. This gets you down to about 85 degrees F which is perfect for adding the yeast. Use a thermometer to check.





Ready for layering with yeast.



2.5 gallon fermentor.



This is actually 7 lbs original dry weight of rice.



I originally made a red yeast rice wine that had too much water and was heading too dry. I did 2nd and 3rd additions of rice to turn it into a Shaoxing jia fan type of wine.

The 7 lbs is the 3rd addition. It sat in the temperature bath for 48 hours at 85 degrees F.



Here it is all combined with the main ferment. Total of 15 lbs glutinous rice, 1/2 lb of red yeast rice, and 3 qts of water.



I originally was making red wine lees to make red fermented bean curd. Can't find any non made in China red bean curd so am making my own.

The recipe for the lees was ok, but the wine fermented too dry. I scaled up before I realized, so doing a save by turning the big batch into bigger batch of jia fan jiu.

 

[wongjau]

This is how I did 4lbs of rice this weekend.

Wash rice and soak for 24 hrs.

Set up a 13 gal kettle on the stove.

That setup could easily do 8-10 lbs dry weight of rice at one time.

Just use 2 baskets, and a shorter standoff in the steamer kettle.

 

[wongjau]

Here are my current batches.

Progress pics - 2.5 gal fermentor of Shaoxing type.











This is the scaled up red rice wine to which I later added more rice.





Both batches start out initially at 85 degrees, with stirring to aerate and release CO2 to step up the yeast. Also to keep the rhizopus mycelia hydrated to prevent spore formation.

Then back down to room temp for 2-3 months.

After that, will transfer to a pot and heat to 140 F to precipitate proteins. Then up to just below boiling to pasteurize.

Eckhardt's book, Sake USA, has some good info on Shaoxing process.

Grandiose Survey of Chinese Alcoholic Drinks and Beverages has good process information.

As does Handbook of Food Science, Technology, and Engineering - Volume 4, Chapter 173 Chinese Wines - Jiu.

 

[wongjau]

Can i make the wine in refrigerator? The highest temperature my refrigerator can produce is about 10C-12C.

I tried making it in the fridge and it didn't work. My fridge temp was lower though. I plan on trying again in case it was just a fluke.

Maybe try to make the ARL/yeast balls work first by letting them sit in warm temp, so that it can grow good amount of mold; get the process going. The packet of ARL says to keep the rice and arl mix in 30C for 2-3 days to get fermented rice.

Don't try to ferment in the refrigerator.

Yeast balls are a type of xiao qu, or small yeast starter. It contains Rhizopus oryzae which likes a warmer temp, as does the actual yeast in the yeast ball.

Da qu, or large yeast starter, contains Aspergillus oryzae like koji, and can handle lower temps. But you still don't start that off at refrigerator temps.

Traditionally you start your ferment at around 30 C / 86 F, and try to control temps by stirring and controlling fermentation room temp.

After about a week or so, you let the fermentation come down to ambient temperature and finish fermenting. You can press the wine at 30 days, but it will benefit from going 70-90 days to fully ferment and age.

During aging, acids react with alcohols to create esters which improve aroma, take the edge off the tartness, and the heat off the alcohol.

Also, oxidized compounds help create aldehydes which sweeten the flavor and help produce the sherry notes characteristic of huang jiu.

 

[wongjau]

When being made again with ARL, What steps should i use to achieve less/No tartness, more clarity(Transparent prefered), more fruity wine?

How does this wine age? What is the temp required for this?

Too tart can be from low residual sugar.

That can be from low sugar conversion if starting temp is too low for the Rhizopus/Aspergillus.

It can be from too much water.

It can be be due to too much attenuation from the yeast.

Tartness also can be from excess lactobacillus activity if the yeast and Rhizopus get a late start due to low temp.

The traditional way is to start the ferment quickly at around 30 C. Temp can naturally rise depending on batch size.

Let, or make, the initial fermentation temp spike to 35 C to knock out the yeast early and leave more residual sugar.

Or maintain 30 C to maximize yeast attenuation.

Clarity - the traditional way was to heat to 60 C to coagulate and remove proteins, then to just below boiling to pasteurize, then age. Aging at 15-20 C should be fine.

Fruitiness comes from esters. Those are formed during fermention, and also during aging when acids and alcohols react.

 

[wongjau]

Maybe try to make the ARL/yeast balls work first by letting them sit in warm temp, so that it can grow good amount of mold; get the process going. The packet of ARL says to keep the rice and arl mix in 30C for 2-3 days to get fermented rice. Which is what we want. THEN, put in the yeast and keep it in the fridge. I have yet to try out, because i dont drink much, just have this strange itch to make this rice wine.

30C for 2-3 days will get lots of fungus activity and sugar/liquid production. The yeast are just starting to ramp up so you start getting a little alcohol.

You put it in the refrigerator if you want to keep it as the fermented rice dessert.

Keep it at higher temps if you want to make alcohol.

At this stage, it is a good seed mash, and you can add it to more rice, yeast, and water to do the main mash fermentation. That's how I've done it.

 

[sarthak]

30C for 2-3 days will get lots of fungus activity and sugar/liquid production. The yeast are just starting to ramp up so you start getting a little alcohol.

You put it in the refrigerator if you want to keep it as the fermented rice dessert.

Keep it at higher temps if you want to make alcohol.

At this stage, it is a good seed mash, and you can add it to more rice, yeast, and water to do the main mash fermentation. That's how I've done it.

Don't try to ferment in the refrigerator.

Yeast balls are a type of xiao qu, or small yeast starter. It contains Rhizopus oryzae which likes a warmer temp, as does the actual yeast in the yeast ball.

Da qu, or large yeast starter, contains Aspergillus oryzae like koji, and can handle lower temps. But you still don't start that off at refrigerator temps.

Traditionally you start your ferment at around 30 C / 86 F, and try to control temps by stirring and controlling fermentation room temp.

After about a week or so, you let the fermentation come down to ambient temperature and finish fermenting. You can press the wine at 30 days, but it will benefit from going 70-90 days to fully ferment and age.

During aging, acids react with alcohols to create esters which improve aroma, take the edge off the tartness, and the heat off the alcohol.

Also, oxidized compounds help create aldehydes which sweeten the flavor and help produce the sherry notes characteristic of huang jiu.

From what i read, R. Orzaye requires higher temperature and produces more lactic acid as compared to A. Orzaye. In sake making, they let the batch go and get it to lower temperatures to stop acid production. This can be done to this wine too right? Let the colony form, get a good amount of starch to sugar conversion for about 2/3 of total fermentation time and then add yeast.

Also, 'Yeast' balls or ARL do not contain the yeast themselves? they are just the mold. So who is making the alcohol, wild yeast? A proper wine yeast like "Montrachet/ Cote des Blanc" be added for alcohol production?

30C for 2-3 days will get lots of fungus activity and sugar/liquid production. The yeast are just starting to ramp up so you start getting a little alcohol.

.

If there is a lot of fungal activity and sugars, the yeast will function properly for alcohol production; Why will i get little alcohol?

Too tart can be from low residual sugar.

That can be from low sugar conversion if starting temp is too low for the Rhizopus/Aspergillus.

It can be from too much water.

It can be be due to too much attenuation from the yeast.

Tartness also can be from excess lactobacillus activity if the yeast and Rhizopus get a late start due to low temp.

The traditional way is to start the ferment quickly at around 30 C. Temp can naturally rise depending on batch size.

Let, or make, the initial fermentation temp spike to 35 C to knock out the yeast early and leave more residual sugar.

Or maintain 30 C to maximize yeast attenuation.

Clarity - the traditional way was to heat to 60 C to coagulate and remove proteins, then to just below boiling to pasteurize, then age. Aging at 15-20 C should be fine.

Fruitiness comes from esters. Those are formed during fermention, and also during aging when acids and alcohols react.

If i am letting the sugars be formed with high temp, and put in a yeast that ferments at low temp, then will it not ferment in the fridge for proper fermentation?

 

[chonas]

He said "a little alcohol" because that's the beginning of fermentation vs what had been up to that point merely saccharification.

Fridge is less likely to work since the mold needs higher temps to produce sugar unless you get 100% conversion at high temp as a 1st step (I drew a diagram of how you could do this earlier in the thread, but haven't done the setup yet).

His process is similar to mine, but I go higher in temps the first 24-48 hours. Koji A. oryzae wants 96 ideally for max sugar production. The lower you are below that, the higher your protein:sugar ratio will be.

 

[wongjau]

Also, 'Yeast' balls or ARL do not contain the yeast themselves? they are just the mold. So who is making the alcohol, wild yeast? A proper wine yeast like "Montrachet/ Cote des Blanc" be added for alcohol production?

Yeast balls contain yeast along with other microorganisms.

Per Fred Ekhardt in Sake(USA) page 48-49

"When the jiu niang is ready (several weeks of turning and cutting), the damp mixture is cut into small pieces, and rolled into little balls, weighing about 10gm each. These yeast balls are called jiu men, and were stored until actual jiu production starts. Jiu niang has yeast (saccharomyces Shaoxing) plus molds (Aspergillus, Rhizopus, Monilia, and others), plus lactobacillus."

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiuqu

"Jiuqu consists of a complex mixture of various molds, yeasts, and bacteria with their associated metabolites, cultured on a starch-rich substrate in a solid state fermentation process. They are typically stored and sold in the form of dried bricks (Daqu), balls (Xiaoqu e.g. Shanghai Yeast Balls), powders or as dried grains (Red Yeast Rice). The most common organisms found in Jiuqu are the filamentous molds Aspergillus oryzae and Rhizopus oryzae and the amylolytic yeast Saccharomycopsis fibuligera. Amylolytic and proteolytic enzymes are the most abundant metabolites isolated.[4][6]"

From Grandiose Survey of Chinese Alcoholic Drinks and Beverages

"The microorganisms grown in the Xiao Qu are mainly Rhizopus spp. (Rhizopus oryzae, R.chinensis), Aspergillus spp. and yeasts. During the period from 1940's to 1950's, scientists isolated as many as 828 strains from Xiao Qu around the country, in which 643 strains belong to the Rhizopus genera. Rhizopus spp. have the ability to excrete not only amylase and glucoamylase, but also zymase. This illustrates why the rice wine makers use only Xiao Qu as both a sacharafying and fermenting agent."

From Handbook of Food Science, Technology, and Engineering - Volume 4, Chapter 173 Chinese Wines - Jiu, page 28-29

"Addition of “qu” and rinsing of “gang.” Because of the availability of sugars and the presence of Rhizopus and other molds, sugars are converted to lactic and other organic acids. This appropriately adjusts the pH of the sugary liquid, inhibits growth of undesirable microorganisms, and allows the reproduction of yeast followed by the production of alcohol. When the sugary liquid rises to the height of four-fifths of the rice, the broken “wheat qu” and water can be added and mixed thoroughly. Rinse the interior of the “gang,” dilute the fermenting mash, increase the nutrients and oxygen, and facilitate the extensive reproduction of yeast.

Fermentation and harrowing. Because the yeast is reproducing extensively, the alcoholic fermentation is vigorous, and increases the product temperature. When the temperature raises to 28–30°C, use a wooden harrow to mix the mash. This is commonly called “first harrowing.” The purpose of this harrowing not only lowers the temperature and has an even temperature for the rice and the sugary liquid, but also removes the carbon dioxide, provides fresh air, facilitate the yeast reproduction, and avoids the overflow of the mash, and contamination of undesirable microorganisms. Therefore, harrowing is one of the important steps in the fermentation of “huang jiu.” After the first harrowing, harrowing is conducted every 3–5 hours to maintain the product temperature maintained at 26–30°C . Generally the number of harrowing is based on the room temperature and changes in the product.

Post-fermentation. About seven days after the loading of “gang,” the “gangs” are filled up and sealed. This procedure is to reduce the contact with air, continue the post-fermentation to produce more alcohol and increase the quality of “jiu mo.” The complete fermentation process takes 20–30 days and the alcohol content is 15 v% or above. The mash is then used as “jiu mo.”
“Sprinkled rice jiu mo” can also be used as a commercial product for direct consumption. This is commonly called “Kuai (rapid) jiu.” However, the product flavor is fairly simple."

Angelyeast makes many different products.

From their website, http://en.angelyeast.com//products/FoodIngredients/Chinesealcohol/20358.html

---
Angel Leaven

I. Product introduction:
Angel leaven is a specially selected strain and complex nutrients for alcohol beverage fermentation under cooking and non-cooking process.

II. Product characteristics:
1. Bio-compound technology, simplified brewing operation, convenient use.
2. Wide application scope, well complete various distilled spirit process brewing
3. Improve the alcohol productivity of grain.
4. Strictly execute process formula, the product quality is stable.

III. Index

Item index
Moisture % ≤ 6.5
Total yeast cell quantity ≥ 60
Total arsenic（calculated as As，mg/kg ≤ 2.0
Lead（Ｐb),mg/kg ≤ 2.0
Salmonella Negative
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Though a picture of one of their products indicates ingredients as Rhizo and flour.