Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

[atsen]

I'd guess that there wouldn't be enough of the enzymes to convert a lot of starch to sugar.
I'm assuming they only use enough for that particular batch of fermented rice.

The yeast would multiply, but it can't ferment the starch unless it's converted to sugar.

I have never seen an Asian market that didn't sell yeast balls. They sometimes get hidden in the strangest places.

I have seen them in the candy section and behind the counter in some places.

Ask the people who stock the shelves.

Oh, I don't know. The balls themselves do not contain "enzymes" as such but rather enzyme-producing fungi beyond the yeast, from what I've heard. They, apparently, are made from the lees of other wine somehow. I'd assume it is -possible- that they get way more sciencey with this jarred stuff and don't culture the yeast along with the mold...but I'd be a little surprised.

I'd also be surprised if there weren't stores that just don't have it. For instance I'd expect any good Asian market to carry pixian douban. Well, they don't, and not all shop owners have even heard of it. If they aren't from China and/or don't know a thing about Sichuan cooking, they may not.

The wine cakes seem a little more universal, but I maintain a Japanese centered/run store may be least likely to carry them.

The store I bought that jar at must have either been out or not carried them, because I looked everywhere, I'm already familiar with the layout, and I both know what they look like and can read enough of the packaging to not have a problem with it. There were a few empty spots there, though, and we just had Mid Autumn Festival, so who knows. At any rate, while I'd find it surprising-ish if they couldn't be found somewhere in a town with more than one Asian Market if there were any Chinese or Vietnamese population there, I'd not be surprised if there weren't groceries that simply didn't carry them.

At any rate, while they're more expensive than the wine cakes, they're still cheap, and may be worth the experiment. I still think that it would work, because I have to assume they're using the same fermentation method that everybody else uses. of course "mold" isn't listed in the ingredients, but ingredients aren't always necessarily listed.

 

[user 211287]

A Japanese market will likely have this

Miyako brand koji. Its for making amasake as well other several other things but it should also work for rice wine. Miyako is the parent company of Cold Mountain but this one is made in Japan.

Mine should be here in a couple more days.

 

[atsen]

A Japanese market will likely have this

Miyako brand koji. Its for making amasake as well other several other things but it should also work for rice wine. Miyako is the parent company of Cold Mountain but this one is made in Japan.

Mine should be here in a couple more days.

Right on! I don't know much about how sake is produced, just that it's a lot different than the choujiu, and way less "set-it-and-forget-it."

I don't mean to imply that it is impossible to produce a wine very similar to this using primarily or exclusively Japanese (or Japanese style) products but following Chinese style methodology. Just that I'd envision it being the most likely type of "Asian market" in the US to specifically lack the 2-in-1 wine cakes featuring both yeast and mold.

At any rate, these jars are somewhere in the neighborhood of two bucks, and I'm kind of curious now if they can be used as a starter. They're obviously live fermentations, but in fairness the rice does not look like it has much if any mold on it...so who knows? Maybe they DO just add an enzyme to it. Then again, searching Chinese search engines for relevant terms when looking at the rice dish, none of them look moldy, either, but some of them at least must be homemade, as easy as it is to make.

Maybe someday I'll try it. What's there to lose except a couple dollars? It's the price of a snack item. I could just skip my next cookie or whatever

 

[user 211287]

I just like experimenting. Simple yeast balls and RYR work fine but sometimes i question Chinese quality control. There is a company in Canada that makes and sells Chinese style yeast balls. Onto is the name IIRC. http://www.ontoyeast.ca/

One of the best ive made sofar was using RYR and Lalvin yeast. Ive also used Korean nuruk and Lalvin yeast.

Im going to use the Miyako koji with probably EC-1118 and see what happens. The koji is ridiculously expensive on Amazon though. Ive got some coming from Okinawa when a friend gets back from a vacation too.

BTW they sell bigger bags of germinated rice called Genmai. It should have the enzymes just like barely malt. Ive only found brown though. Most Asian markets stock it.

 

[atsen]

Well I don't really drink though I used to. But I was curious so I gave that jar a few days to ferment some more, then tested it out last night. Since it's been so long since I've had something strong, I didn't have a frame of reference - it smelled winy, but I wanted a measure by which to estimate its strength.

So, while it's sake and not choujiu, I got a bottle of unfiltered sake for comparison. But importantly, it's unfiltered and undiluted sake. 300ml of Kikusui Perfect Snow, which weighs in at 21%abv.

I had about 12oz of the wine from the fermented rice.

I drank a small tea tasting glass of the "homemade" wine - mm! Sticky sweet, fragrant, a little bit yeasty, but warming with a tiny little alcohol bite to it. Definitely more power than the "up to 3.3%" the jar said, but then it was also consumed after "improper" storage.

Then, for comparison and the sake of fairness, I drank a cup of the sake.

I think the expression I'm looking for is "boy, howdy!" I used to love Scotch whisky, gin, and rum...I've had my share of straight liquor. I don't think I realized something only half the strength of liquor could have that kind of heat to it, though. It was also sweet, but that sweetness was overpowered by the sheer strength of the wine. I'm amazed any natural, unfortified and undistilled/unconcentrated product could be so powerful, but apparently it can be. It was good.

In comparison, if I had to ballpark it I'd say "my" wine was around typical grape wine strength, or perhaps very slightly more. But not more than 15% abv.

I'm lucky that sake was just a 300ml bottle, because I have no tolerance to alcohol and I ended up finishing both wines before bed time.

 

[ohiochris]

I wonder.....if you tried making rice wine in a pumpkin , would the yeast and mold consume the pumpkin ? Or just a little of it and add some pumpkin flavor to the end product. That could be an interesting experiment. My rice wine came out just about perfect , sweet and quite potent. The neutral flavor though had me thinking of seasonal flavorings , and that took me down the pumpkin train of thought

 

[Tsuyako]

Here's a picture of my first batch, been sitting a week now and I'm getting antsy to try it. Used 5 cups broken Jasmine rice and 4 yeast balls. Took me forever to find the suckers.

The others are banana wine (L) and rhubarb wine, don't worry I fixed the airlock.

View attachment 1443933437721.jpg

 

[MasterCrook]

I just like experimenting. Simple yeast balls and RYR work fine but sometimes i question Chinese quality control. There is a company in Canada that makes and sells Chinese style yeast balls. Onto is the name IIRC. http://www.ontoyeast.ca/

One of the best ive made sofar was using RYR and Lalvin yeast. Ive also used Korean nuruk and Lalvin yeast.

Im going to use the Miyako koji with probably EC-1118 and see what happens. The koji is ridiculously expensive on Amazon though. Ive got some coming from Okinawa when a friend gets back from a vacation too.

BTW they sell bigger bags of germinated rice called Genmai. It should have the enzymes just like barely malt. Ive only found brown though. Most Asian markets stock it.

I'll be trying the Onto balls very soon, maybe next weekend

 

[atsen]

Let us know how it works, mastercrook!

I just started up a new batch today, a week after starting my first batch. Is this how it starts?

This time I used the "right" rice. Long grain glutinous rice - Thai sticky rice. I used the largest amount my little cooker will make - three measures, at around 6 fl oz (I think) each, along with two wine cakes.

Should be ready for Halloween. Some spirits for the spirits.

The batch in progress was started one week ago tonight. It's gotten pretty soupy and mushy, it has no firmness to it at all and liquid is pooling up around the lower points in the top of the rice mass, though there isn't enough liquid yet that it floats. There are big bubbles showing along the sides, where gas is slowly building up but hasn't managed yet to escape through the mud-like material surrounding it. Kind of neat. It's smelling really winey, now, and less bready. That one was made with two measures of jasmine rice.

Both are being done super low-tech without much in the way of sanitation procedures, so I'm open to the possibility that one may turn sour or something at some point, but what can you do? I don't want to invest much in this at all.

The first is in a gladware bowl. Today's is in a plastic iced tea pitcher, because I think the lid on that is breathable the way it normally is and won't ned to be cracked open to allow the gas to get out, which means it would (ideally) have a lower risk of contamination - not that I'm super concerned with that anyway.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

Just shy of three weeks on my batch of Thai Jasmine rice.

For this to not be traditional sake, the smell coming out of the mason jars when I go to take a big wiff smells VERY strongly like a high alcohol sake. (I know that its not actual sake, just, it smells very very similar to it)

Gonna pick up some short grain sushi rice, has anyone made a batch with Kokuho Rose (I think thats the brand)?

 

[user 211287]

Just shy of three weeks on my batch of Thai Jasmine rice.

For this to not be traditional sake, the smell coming out of the mason jars when I go to take a big wiff smells VERY strongly like a high alcohol sake. (I know that its not actual sake, just, it smells very very similar to it)

Gonna pick up some short grain sushi rice, has anyone made a batch with Kokuho Rose (I think thats the brand)?

While Kukuho Rose is a very tasty rice, it is NOT a short grain. Its a medium grain rice. Its very very similar to Botan. Both are calrose varieties.

True Japanese short grains include Koshihikari, Hitomebore and akitakomachi varieties. There are a few Korean short grain varieties too and they are normally cheaper.

Look for these if you want a cheaper short grain rice. They are usually cheaper than Kukuho or Botan at a Korean market or very close in price.

This is what i get but its around $24/15lbs. They are well worth it if you enjoy eating good rice.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

While Kukuho Rose is a very tasty rice, it is NOT a short grain. Its a medium grain rice. Its very very similar to Botan. Both are calrose varieties.

True Japanese short grains include Koshihikari, Hitomebore and akitakomachi varieties. There are a few Korean short grain varieties too and they are normally cheaper.

Look for these if you want a cheaper short grain rice. They are usually cheaper than Kukuho or Botan at a Korean market or very close in price.

This is what i get but its around $24/15lbs. They are well worth it if you enjoy eating good rice.

Awesome, I'll check those out. Thankfully this town has a lot of Asian grocery stores so I have a high chance of finding all of these (if not at one itll be at one of the others).

Are there any qualitative differences in the end products when fermenting medium grain varieties vs. (true) short grain varieties? (honestly though kokuho was short grain since they are fat little guys)

 

[atsen]

I wanted to ensure that my batch I started yesterday yields enough for a couple good sized servings of wine, but I don't need or want enough to need to bother with bottling. I intend this for drinking fresh. I already had three measures of long grain glutinous rice started, and there was already a tiny bit of liquid in the hole in the center, which was odd to me. I think maybe it's condensation though. The mold seems to have already started spreading a little, and that was encouraging. So this morning, I cooked a fourth measure of rice, which brings it to 24 fl. oz. of dry rice to start with. I let the rice cool a bit of course, but then I mixed it in well. Since the mold had already started spreading, this helps break it up and distribute it better still, which hopefully will translate to going faster still. Furthermore, I let the rice cool, but not to room temperature, so it will have had the benefit of slightly warming the environment in the container for a little while, to let my little friends work along happily.

At least, that's the theory. We'll see how it goes. But in the end, 4 measures of rice, which should work out to about 3 us cups.

 

[user 211287]

Awesome, I'll check those out. Thankfully this town has a lot of Asian grocery stores so I have a high chance of finding all of these (if not at one itll be at one of the others).

Are there any qualitative differences in the end products when fermenting medium grain varieties vs. (true) short grain varieties? (honestly though kokuho was short grain since they are fat little guys)

Notice the label?

While it may be smaller than your generic calrose its still larger than a true short grain rice such as Koshihikari. IMO its the best of the calrose growers in Cali. I ate it for years and still do when Costco has it because its cheap good rice. You probably wont see much difference for making Chinese style rice wines unless you use a sweet rice. It has more of the starch that is converted to sugar. The Kokuho and the Korean ones i posted are likely so close it wont matter much.

BTW Korean sweet rice is also often cheaper than others IF you get it at a Korean market. Look for markets that cater to Koreans. Certain brands will be much cheaper than at a typical Asian market.

 

[ohiochris]

The batch I made with jasmine rice turned out so good that I see no need to experiment with other types of rice. The guy at the chinese grocery told me jasmine rice wont work ,....boy was he wrong.

But I see that its crucial to drink or bottle/pasteurize/cold crash at just the right time if you want it sweet. I tried it twice while it was sweet and had great flavor , but a week later its now not sweet and has a harsh alcohol/slightly sour flavor , still drinkable just not as enjoyable. Its been an enjoyable experiment with a quality of wine as the end result much better than I expected.

 

[MasterCrook]

The batch I made with jasmine rice turned out so good that I see no need to experiment with other types of rice. The guy at the chinese grocery told me jasmine rice wont work ,....boy was he wrong.

But I see that its crucial to drink or bottle/pasteurize/cold crash at just the right time if you want it sweet. I tried it twice while it was sweet and had great flavor , but a week later its now not sweet and has a harsh alcohol/slightly sour flavor , still drinkable just not as enjoyable. Its been an enjoyable experiment with a quality of wine as the end result much better than I expected.

I've done lots of jasmine batches and I find if you want sweeter wine, go with glutinous rice. Congtrats on your batch!

 

[z-bob]

I just added a half a cup of distilled water and stirred the rice I started 3 or 4 weeks ago. I'll let it go another week and then strain it. Hopefully it'll taste about the same as the previous batches, just thinner and less sweet.

Next experiment will be with broken jasmine rice from the Asian market. (that would probably make good brewer's rice too)

 

[MasterCrook]

I just started a new batch on Sunday using Onto yeast, and there are some differences to be noted. Compared to the asian store yeast balls which are imported from China, the Onto yeast balls had a floral sugary smell, similar to soaked glutinous rice. I used glutinous rice in this batch and the smell was almost identical. The next difference is the mold. The chinese yeast i usually buy causes a fine white furry mold to grow on the surface of the rice in about 3-4 days. The onto yeast has developed some black specks/spores throughout the rice in the jars. Another difference is the liquid production, although this may not be because of the yeast, as i varied my steaming procedure. Anyways, there was a lot of white opaque liquid already formed on day 2. Lastly the smell is very sugary, not as melony as the chinese yeast. The bubbles are going very nicley too. According to the onto yeast, these yeast balls should be really pure and of high quality, as it is made and tested for quality in Toronto. I'll keep posting any new findings, so far so good

 

[Melana]

This may have been answered already... Can I add the leftover mash to a new batch (I only have a few yeast balls left...)?

 

[MasterCrook]

This may have been answered already... Can I add the leftover mash to a new batch (I only have a few yeast balls left...)?

Based on many previous posts, this doesn't work well

 

[Melana]

Based on many previous posts, this doesn't work well

Thanks for taking the time to answer me.... and thanks to all for forgiving me for being lazy today.

 

[ChefRex]

This may have been answered already... Can I add the leftover mash to a new batch (I only have a few yeast balls left...)?

No it dose not work well, tried it several times.
I'm only using two balls per one gallon batch.
If you want more let me know.

 

[Melana]

No it dose not work well, tried it several times.
I'm only using two balls per one gallon batch.
If you want more let me know.

Oh the places my mind wanders...

I have to go check my current inventory - i think i'm down to my last two balls.

 

[z-bob]

Phrasing!

 

[Amay42]

I've had great success, it appears to have brewed correctly and tastes great. The only issue is that it's very thick and VERY sweet. I don't want to ruin what I have but was hoping for something a little more "drinkable" and less of a sipping drink.

My question is this: Should I ferment it again with a packet of Sake Yeast, treating what I have essentially as mash. It's very high in sugar content which leads me to believe that there's enough "food" in there for the yeast to eat, the issue would be if the alcohol content is too high to begin with.

Short of drinking my whole bottle, I have no idea how strong what I've made is.

 

[z-bob]

I've had great success, it appears to have brewed correctly and tastes great. The only issue is that it's very thick and VERY sweet. I don't want to ruin what I have but was hoping for something a little more "drinkable" and less of a sipping drink.

My question is this: Should I ferment it again with a packet of Sake Yeast, treating what I have essentially as mash. It's very high in sugar content which leads me to believe that there's enough "food" in there for the yeast to eat, the issue would be if the alcohol content is too high to begin with.

Short of drinking my whole bottle, I have no idea how strong what I've made is.

Mine have been like that too. I tried adding water to dilute it for the fermentation to start up again, but I must have waited too long and the yeast was already dead. I'll try again soon, adding the extra water at 1 week instead of 3,

It's not so thick and sweet if you refrigerate it and let the rice solids drop out.

Or you can mix it with something like unsweetened cranberry juice.

 

[MasterCrook]

It shouldn't be thick at all unless the filtering/straining wasn't done or not enough.
Right after filtering/straining it should be runny like water, colour is opaque white

 

[pdxal]

Mine have all cleared with time, so that the rice solids settle out and the clear liquid can be decanted off of them. Clear color has been slightly yellowish white/clear.
Adding water after fermentation thins it out to make it more like traditional sake. I suspect, but have no proof, that the rice wines have turned out around 20% after 6 weeks fermentation and commercial sake is around 15%. When filtered water is added mine tastes much more like commercial sake.
It may taste sweet but not have much sugar to additionally ferment. I doubt that another yeast could ferment the rice wine any further due to the high alcohol content, but why not give it a try and see?

 

[wassail_boy]

I just started a batch of this today. I picked up the yeast balls from Cleveland's Chinatown ($6 for 14 oz.). I have about 50 lbs of medium-grain rice lying around that I'm going to experiment with my first batch. I usually have so much regular rice that if this works well, I don't want to bother buying another variety of rice just for wine-making. If it doesn't work out, then, I guess I'll have to invest in some glutinuous/sweet/jasmine/sushi rice
I cooked 6 "cups" (as measured by the scoop that came with the rice cooker) as I normally would in my rice cooker, cooled it, and sprinkled on three balls of the yeast powder on top. It filled a gallon Cambro about three quarters full. I made a "well" in the middle all the way down to the bottom, then set it next to my kombucha and sourdough starter in the warmest room in my house (the basement, actually).
This being November in northeast Ohio, ambient temps are pretty cool. So we'll see what it looks like three weeks!

 

[wassail_boy]

Also, holy cow, 525 pages??? I read the first 60 or so today, then decided I had gleaned all the info I could without dedicating a week of my life just to reading this thread. But many thanks to sonofgrok et al. for their EXTREMELY informative discussions/pictures at the beginning of this thread!