Will be doing my first BIAB in a few weekends. I've got 20+ extract batches under my belt and 3 1-gallon Brooklyn Brewing all-grain kits. Just wondered what tips you guys suggest. I'll be doing NB's Dead Ringer BIAB kit. Recipe has just shy of 8 pounds of grain. I'm assuming the weight of the bag when we lift will be between 15-20 pounds, does that sound right? I plan on making a starter with harvested US-05 - probably 1.5L would be plenty for the 3-gallon batch. What suggestions can you offer to ensure my BIAB debut is a success?
Looking for BIAB Tips
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The grain will be milled in the regular way by NB. For BIAB I find, as do many others, that a finer milling of the grain is useful to up the efficiency. I think the NB kits are set at 75% efficiency (brewhouse).
I got a couple of AG kits at the start of my foray into BIAB and the crush was not as fine as I now use with lower efficiency and OG being the result.
A few solutions
With a fine crush 75% efficiency is readily achievable with a SG of 1.06ish as the Deadringer Kit is. (1.064 I think)
I got a couple of AG kits at the start of my foray into BIAB and the crush was not as fine as I now use with lower efficiency and OG being the result.
A few solutions
- Mill the grain yourself fine
- Add a pound of base malt to the recipe from NB (shoot them an email if you have already ordered it or just add 1 lb of 2-row when you order)
- Make your own dead ringer kit using your LHBS and NB recipe available on their website, crush the grain fine at the store.
With a fine crush 75% efficiency is readily achievable with a SG of 1.06ish as the Deadringer Kit is. (1.064 I think)
I've done over 100 5 gallon batches all BIAB and here's my tips:
Be sure ot stir the wort every 15 min or so. Unless your fermenter is very insulated, youll get temperature stratification. From experience, I know the exact place to set my stove to keep the temp constant but i still need to stir it.
use 2 bags. I use 5 gal paint strainer bags from lowes. Works amazingly well since they have elastic at the top and come in 2 pack already. One 2 batches so far, I;ve had holes made during hte brewing process happen. I'm glad I used 2 bags or else I'd have burnt grains at the bottom
Be sure ot stir the wort every 15 min or so. Unless your fermenter is very insulated, youll get temperature stratification. From experience, I know the exact place to set my stove to keep the temp constant but i still need to stir it.
use 2 bags. I use 5 gal paint strainer bags from lowes. Works amazingly well since they have elastic at the top and come in 2 pack already. One 2 batches so far, I;ve had holes made during hte brewing process happen. I'm glad I used 2 bags or else I'd have burnt grains at the bottom
My tip is measure water volumes and gravities at all stages of the process for your first 3 or 4 brews so that you can work out your efficiencies. Then put your numbers into the brewing software of your choice. You will probably find your water volumes and gravities are different than whoever designed the recipe.
adiochiro3
Well-Known Member
I used to squeeze the bag, but now I just set it in a colander on top of the pot after the mash and let it drain while I bring the wort to a boil. Pretty much done when the boil starts.
Don't leave the grains in the bag for long. They will begin to ferment and rot by the next morning if you don't spread them out and let them cool and dry. Once the bag is emptied, rinse it out good and lay it out to dry inside out. Once dry, shake the last of the grains off and it's ready for the next batch.
Don't leave the grains in the bag for long. They will begin to ferment and rot by the next morning if you don't spread them out and let them cool and dry. Once the bag is emptied, rinse it out good and lay it out to dry inside out. Once dry, shake the last of the grains off and it's ready for the next batch.
Do a 90 min mash if doing a recipe designed for batch sparging. Expect an efficiency into kettle in the mid 60s until you get your process dialed in.
Get yourself 2, 5 gal plastic Home Depot Homer buckets or equivalent. Drill a bunch of holes in bottom of one. Put bucket with holes inside other bucket and now you have a place to put your grain bag to drain and optionally gently squeeze to get as much sugar out short of a sparge. If you choose to squeeze the bag (I do) be sure to wear rubber gloves as the bag will be very hot.
You want to hit your end of mash gravity, volume into kettle and end of boil volumes per the recipe to hit recipe's OG and to be close on the FG. If you don't hit the recipe FG it's not the end of the world and you will still have beer
. On my first few batches I didn't realize how important hitting end of boil volume was on achieving target OG. If EOB volume is high (low boil of rate) your OG will be low. Visa a versa if boil off rate is to high.
The best investment I made to take quick gravity measurements during the mash was a refractometer. It saves a lot of time as you don't have to wait for sample in hydrometer jar to cool to take a gravity reading. The couple of drops on refractometer are cool by the time you can take your measurement. When sampling mash liquor for any measurements stir well before sampling.
Get yourself 2, 5 gal plastic Home Depot Homer buckets or equivalent. Drill a bunch of holes in bottom of one. Put bucket with holes inside other bucket and now you have a place to put your grain bag to drain and optionally gently squeeze to get as much sugar out short of a sparge. If you choose to squeeze the bag (I do) be sure to wear rubber gloves as the bag will be very hot.
You want to hit your end of mash gravity, volume into kettle and end of boil volumes per the recipe to hit recipe's OG and to be close on the FG. If you don't hit the recipe FG it's not the end of the world and you will still have beer
. On my first few batches I didn't realize how important hitting end of boil volume was on achieving target OG. If EOB volume is high (low boil of rate) your OG will be low. Visa a versa if boil off rate is to high.The best investment I made to take quick gravity measurements during the mash was a refractometer. It saves a lot of time as you don't have to wait for sample in hydrometer jar to cool to take a gravity reading. The couple of drops on refractometer are cool by the time you can take your measurement. When sampling mash liquor for any measurements stir well before sampling.
1. BIAB doesn't suffer from stuck sparges. This means you can crush you grain very tightly into little bits. That will results in easier gelatinization and sugar extraction for you (i.e. higher efficiency - higher starting gravity). If you crush tightly, expect high efficiency.
2. I use a dunk sparge. I don't just raise the bag. I use a winch to hold it yup, let it drain, squeeze a bit, then lower it into a second pot and add more water. Thus I mash thicker than the traditional thin BIAB mash, but still 1.25Q/pound.
I just did a 10 gallon 20 pound BIAB and got 83% efficiency (final gravity of the wort in my bucket). Without the dunk sparge I've never gotten that high an efficiency with BIAB for 20+ pounds of grain.
Note - you don't need to do a mash out. What I do is start heating the wort while I'm doing the dunk sparge in the second pot.
3. stirring the pot some time in does help because there are large temperature differences. I keep several blankets on the pot to layer the insulation. In cold weather dont forget to have a blanket along the bottom of the pot, under the burner.
4. Get a pair of heat resistant chemical gloves from Home Depot or Lowes for $15. They let you hold the grain bag, and squeeze hops bags.
5. Buy a Wilserbrewer bag. They are custom made for you pot and last many uses and are very strong. Good quality stiching and material.
2. I use a dunk sparge. I don't just raise the bag. I use a winch to hold it yup, let it drain, squeeze a bit, then lower it into a second pot and add more water. Thus I mash thicker than the traditional thin BIAB mash, but still 1.25Q/pound.
I just did a 10 gallon 20 pound BIAB and got 83% efficiency (final gravity of the wort in my bucket). Without the dunk sparge I've never gotten that high an efficiency with BIAB for 20+ pounds of grain.
Note - you don't need to do a mash out. What I do is start heating the wort while I'm doing the dunk sparge in the second pot.
3. stirring the pot some time in does help because there are large temperature differences. I keep several blankets on the pot to layer the insulation. In cold weather dont forget to have a blanket along the bottom of the pot, under the burner.
4. Get a pair of heat resistant chemical gloves from Home Depot or Lowes for $15. They let you hold the grain bag, and squeeze hops bags.
5. Buy a Wilserbrewer bag. They are custom made for you pot and last many uses and are very strong. Good quality stiching and material.
I also dunk sparge. I drain and squeeze the bag using a colander and a dinner plate. The colander in the bottom of a pot, push on it with the plate. No hot sticky hands, no gloves needed. I don't think you need a starter for a three gallon batch.
OkanaganMike
Well-Known Member
I found the 05 to be pretty aggressive. I just add it to a cup of preboiled water cooled to 70F in a sterilized Pyrex measure about 30 mins before pitching. Lightly sprinkle it in and cover for 15mins. After 15, give it a light stir and recover for another 15.
Frostbrewer
Well-Known Member
I've got to second this. Get rid of those spent grains quickly. I dumped mine in a bucket and put them in the garage for 2 days. The smell was awful and lingered for about a week.
OkanaganMike
Well-Known Member
Great for compost if you or someone you know is a gardener. I've got bears in the back that like to visit my composter but a good dusting of Cayenne on the lid tends to keep them out of it. Maybe if I had Mexican bears it would be a different story but so far so good (fingers crossed).
Mark your brewing spoon to correlate to the volume in your kettle. As you progress through the session you will be aware of any volume inconsistencies, and will have a chance to make corrections on the fly.
Many times people report back that they were either short or long on total volume brewed, yet with your kettle calibrated, you will not be flying blind.
Many times people report back that they were either short or long on total volume brewed, yet with your kettle calibrated, you will not be flying blind.
pricelessbrewing
Brewer's Friend Software Manager
Even better, get a ruler!
OkanaganMike
Well-Known Member
Rulers don't have gal marks though so you'll still need to figure how many gals to the inch/foot. I marked up my spoon right from the beginning and use it all the time. Great suggestion W.B
pricelessbrewing
Brewer's Friend Software Manager
except it's less precise for fractions of a gallon and will be less accurate at different Temps. 5.5 gallons chilled is 5.75 gallons at boil... So you could be by . 25gallons or more if you don't take that into account.
My calculator does the height per gallon and gives height for every step of brewday.
Also rulers can come in ss or aluminum which I prefer over wood.
Per NB's directions, I'll start with 5.5 gallons of water and see where it is after the grains have been mashed. Doesn't sound like the bag will be that heavy and we've got a bunch of guys for this brew day, so if it is tiring, we can have 2 people hold it if it does get heavy. I did a partial mash on a pumpkin ale last summer so I'm familiar with the grain bag draining - just never done it with this amount of grain. It will be interesting to compare this batch to the extract kit I will also be doing this spring...
you may want to hold off on doign the whole 5.5gal intially. I've had a number of close calls with grain bills 15lbs and over. Once I had to scoop out a bunch of oatmealy water, strain the grains and put those back in cause there wasnt room in my pot for all the grains.
Now I usually just add the last gallon or so of water by sparge/rinsing the grain bag.
Now I usually just add the last gallon or so of water by sparge/rinsing the grain bag.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
If by harvested yeast you mean the slurry from a previous batch,I just swirl the mason jar around on brew day and dump around 200 ML.I find no need for washing or starters.Super simple and I always get airlock action within 6 hours, and hit FG
I like a hoist to let the bag drip out and for squeezing.Makes things so much easier and more enjoyable.A simple A frame step ladder and rope is all you really need,or anything else you can throw a rope over and brew under.I Highly recommend wilserbrewer bags.Nice guy,great bags and fast shipping.
I like a hoist to let the bag drip out and for squeezing.Makes things so much easier and more enjoyable.A simple A frame step ladder and rope is all you really need,or anything else you can throw a rope over and brew under.I Highly recommend wilserbrewer bags.Nice guy,great bags and fast shipping.
1) A bunch of guys for 1 bag for one 5 gallon batch? You must be girlie men
Wet grain is heavy, and once you hit 20 pounds it gets more challenging, thus for a 10 gallon batch it's a lot easier using a winch.
For just 10-12 pounds of grain , one non-girlie man can handle it.
2) There is a trick to raising the grain bag. While a hulking manly man can yank it right up, its easier if you partially pull the bag out, and let the caught wort run out of the bag, then lift some more, and let more wort run out.
Maybe a few "rests" of 10+ seconds. Then you can lift it up and at least a gallon less wort will be in the grain.
(Now mind you, us HE-MEN can lift the bag out without the rests.
)Also - lift with your legs, not lower back.
ArkotRamathorn
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1) A bunch of guys for 1 bag for one 5 gallon batch? You must be girlie men
Wet grain is heavy, and once you hit 20 pounds it gets more challenging, thus for a 10 gallon batch it's a lot easier using a winch.
For just 10-12 pounds of grain , one non-girlie man can handle it.
2) There is a trick to raising the grain bag. While a hulking manly man can yank it right up, its easier if you partially pull the bag out, and let the caught wort run out of the bag, then lift some more, and let more wort run out.
Maybe a few "rests" of 10+ seconds. Then you can lift it up and at least a gallon less wort will be in the grain.
(Now mind you, us HE-MEN can lift the bag out without the rests.
Also - lift with your legs, not lower back.
I used to lift with my left hand and pour sparge water right the right. Used to. Then I realized that chimpanzees were using sticks to get termites out of holes instead of smashing the whole mound to bits. And I said, I am better than a chimpanzee (usually). (yes, I have to sparge, I'm way too cheap to buy a bigger kettle just to do no sparge and it's easier for me to just do a measuring cup sparge). I bought a steel, uh pulley thing (what the hell are they called) and an S-hook, took the safety harness rope I got from my tree stand (beer is more important than safety in a tree stand) and a climbing caribeener (it was cheap and SWMBO bought it, she wouldnt miss it...). I can just hoist the metal basket/bag out of the wort and begin sparging where ever I can put the s-hook/pulley. I got to learn some sailing knots in the process to tie it off safely.
I think I am in the minority on this as well, I do a mash out, I saw an average jump of 5% increased efficiency because of it. It sucks, and its time consuming because it takes awhile to bring the grain AND wort up to almost 170, but I get more consistent *and* higher efficiency. But test your system, if you hit 75% right off the bat with no-mash out, don't mess with it.
Cheesy_Goodness
Well-Known Member
I BIAB in the kitchen and it took several batches before I figured out how to not spill a drop of wort
Pick up the grain bag after the mash, hold it over the kettle as long as you can stand it. Hold the bag with one hand and grab another kettle/big bowl and slip it under the stream coming from the bag and move it away. If you need to up your volume, add some hot water and stir before lifting the bag again and sliding a colander underneath to let it drain. Give it about 10 minutes and you'll have 90% of what you're going to get without squeezing.
Probably won't work for everyone but it works on my setup just the way it needs to.
Or you could just use a winch in the garage and be done with it
Pick up the grain bag after the mash, hold it over the kettle as long as you can stand it. Hold the bag with one hand and grab another kettle/big bowl and slip it under the stream coming from the bag and move it away. If you need to up your volume, add some hot water and stir before lifting the bag again and sliding a colander underneath to let it drain. Give it about 10 minutes and you'll have 90% of what you're going to get without squeezing.
Probably won't work for everyone but it works on my setup just the way it needs to.
Or you could just use a winch in the garage and be done with it
OkanaganMike
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I checked out your calculator and think I'll try it next go around, looks cool. I just like to brew though and don't have the interest in taking it to the level of building watches.
How can you know if your better than a Chimp? :fro:
Have you ever seen those guys brew?
They can use their feet and their hands at the same time, and let me tell you, they are fast! I saw a chimp brew 3 straight BIAB batches in 2 hours.
Hands and feet darting this way and that, they were a blur.
He made:
Banana Blonde Ale
Banana Stout
Banana Double IPA
(PS - I too googled knot tying - Millers Knot)
ArkotRamathorn
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How can you know if your better than a Chimp? :fro:
Have you ever seen those guys brew?
They can use their feet and their hands at the same time, and let me tell you, they are fast! I saw a chimp brew 3 straight BIAB batches in 2 hours.
Hands and feet darting this way and that, they were a blur.
He made:
Banana Blonde Ale
Banana Stout
Banana Double IPA
(PS - I too googled knot tying - Millers Knot)
I really truly wish we could train a chimpanzee to BIAB. Put some buzzers on the thermometers when they hit the right temps, reward with food. I bet you could do it.
I mean, I am able to brew, and I brew shirtless so it's pretty much like watching a chimpanzee brewing.
1. It's only an 8-pound grain bill as NB BIAB kits are only 3-gallon batches.
2. So, given that weight, it sure sounds like it will not be a problem for me to lift it easily myself as I would not call myself a "girly man."
3. Quite a discussion on chimps - I guess we are discussing my "evolution" as a brewer...
4. We'll be outside, so spills can be hosed away easily.
5. There will be plenty of other guys there as we're doing a big brew day with my bro-in-law and nephew, so we'll have plenty of (most likely unnecessary) help.
Thanks guys!
2. So, given that weight, it sure sounds like it will not be a problem for me to lift it easily myself as I would not call myself a "girly man."
3. Quite a discussion on chimps - I guess we are discussing my "evolution" as a brewer...
4. We'll be outside, so spills can be hosed away easily.
5. There will be plenty of other guys there as we're doing a big brew day with my bro-in-law and nephew, so we'll have plenty of (most likely unnecessary) help.
Thanks guys!
brew_darrymore
Well-Known Member
And if you want to take it one step further, you can permanently mark your kettle. Here's a great thread that explains how to do that at home.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=463099
I did mine:
Looks awesome, I really need to do this with my pots.
While I agree, having gallons neatly marked on your kettle 1 thru 7 looks great, it wouldn't do much for me vs one single reference mark on my mash paddle as my batch size is consistent.
I know the target OG for the recipe is 1.064. However, the wort will be around 170 after the mash, assuming I do a mash out. I know hydrometers are calibrated for 60 degrees. If I want to take a gravity reading before starting the boil to see where I'm at, is there a calculator out there to "convert" my gravity given the wort will be 170, and not 60. Or, should I just take a sample and throw it in the freezer for a little bit to cool it and then take a reading?
Nevermind - should have done a quick Google search - problem solved: http://www.brewersfriend.com/hydrometer-temp/
OkanaganMike
Well-Known Member
Gotta love Google. Is there anything not on there?
chickypad
lupulin shift victim
Many folks find in practice that the conversions don't work too well much over 80-90* (one reason a refractometer is nice on brew day). If you put the sample cup in a bowl of cold water it will cool off faster than putting it in the freezer, especially if you stir it.
Smart idea. I also do not like the idea of dropping a hydrometer into hot wort. They are probably pretty resistant to breaking due to sudden temp changes, but do not want to roll the dice.
Refractometers are handy for this purpose. Sample size is just a few drops that also cools to a reasonable temperature very quickly.
Thanks for the tips on cooling my sample to 90 or below. A refractometer might be nice, but I'd rather spend that $ on more ingredients. It's not like a 4-6 oz sample of wort is going to be missed over 5 gallons, at least not to me.
A refractometer has been one of the biggest time savers for me on brew day. Cooling my hydrometer jar of mash liquor in a pitcher of cold water from 170 to near 60 was taking 5-10 min for each sample. With a refractometer, by the time I can read the scale the couple of drops of the sample have cooled. I've also found it accurate for SG measurements post ferment (alcohol present) when using the refractometer conversion tools when compared against my precision hydrometer. SG measurements are very quick.
I must be missing something because I don't see using a hydrometer as taking much time. 5-10 minutes, to me, is not a big deal on a brew day. Glad it works well for you, but I don't know how much BIAB brewing I'll be doing. I just did this on a whim for a fun Brew Fest, but all of my other kits are extract based, so I just use the hydrometer to measure OG prior to the yeast pitch. Glad you like your refractometer.
ArkotRamathorn
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After you get used to your system I don't see a need to take pre-boil samples. At least for me, I know I can get a general idea of what my efficiency will be just based purely on my grain bill.
7-8# of grain = 90%+ I almost always hit above 85% when I have a small grain bill under 8lbs.
8-10# of grain = 80%ish
10-13# of grain = 73% most of my beers for 5 gallons are between 10-11.5lbs so I have the most amount of data on this weight, 13lbs being the max I can safely do on my system.
Yes, these are all post boil measurements, I guess I could never understand the difference between brewhouse efficiency and, uh, whatever the other one is. If I changed systems to a true all-grain system or got a bigger kettle and upgraded to 10 gallon batches and such, I would take some pre-boil readings for the first couple batches on the new system then after I know about what the system does and work out the initial tweeks, all post boil samples for me.
Disclaimer: Yes, I had a lot of batches originally that I was getting bad efficiency on, some was due to being a bad brewer, but I never had LME/DME on hand to adjust my gravity so whatever I got, I got post-boil. Now that I have my own mill and have narrowed down the variables (confession, I use the same strike volume every single time no matter what the grain bill is and the same amount of sparge water). Whenever I write up a new recipe I work under the assumption I am only going to get 75%, if I get more, yay, if I get less, I havent gotten below 73% efficiency in over 15 batches.
7-8# of grain = 90%+ I almost always hit above 85% when I have a small grain bill under 8lbs.
8-10# of grain = 80%ish
10-13# of grain = 73% most of my beers for 5 gallons are between 10-11.5lbs so I have the most amount of data on this weight, 13lbs being the max I can safely do on my system.
Yes, these are all post boil measurements, I guess I could never understand the difference between brewhouse efficiency and, uh, whatever the other one is. If I changed systems to a true all-grain system or got a bigger kettle and upgraded to 10 gallon batches and such, I would take some pre-boil readings for the first couple batches on the new system then after I know about what the system does and work out the initial tweeks, all post boil samples for me.
Disclaimer: Yes, I had a lot of batches originally that I was getting bad efficiency on, some was due to being a bad brewer, but I never had LME/DME on hand to adjust my gravity so whatever I got, I got post-boil. Now that I have my own mill and have narrowed down the variables (confession, I use the same strike volume every single time no matter what the grain bill is and the same amount of sparge water). Whenever I write up a new recipe I work under the assumption I am only going to get 75%, if I get more, yay, if I get less, I havent gotten below 73% efficiency in over 15 batches.
btbnl
Well-Known Member
To me, the really useful thing about pre-boil gravity readings is that they provide a cross-check of your post-boil OG reading, provided you have the pre- and post-boil volumes too. By conservation of sugar,
pre-boil [volume x (gravity-1)] = post-boil [volume x (gravity -1)]
pre-boil [volume x (gravity-1)] = post-boil [volume x (gravity -1)]
Well, the process itself was easy, but next time I do this I will start with a lot less than the recommended 5.5 gallons to yield 3 gallons of wort. I ended with 4+ gallons of wort and because there was so much liquid (less sugar/gallon) my OG was only 1.042, a far cry from the kit's suggested OG of 1.064. I guess next time I'll just start with only 4 gallons and if I need to top off, so be it. My buddy did the extract kit the same day and it was neat to see the sharp contrast in the darknesses of our respective worts. Mine was much, much lighter. I'm sure some of that was because it was "diluted" but I also know all-grain beers are lighter than their extract counterparts. As long as it makes good tasting beer, that's fine. It won't be the IPA ABV I was hoping for, but as long as it makes good tasting, carbonated beer, I'll be happy. Now, I bought a 3-gallon fermenter to rack this beer (and other BIAB kits as well). Yes, yes, I know many dry hop in the primary, but since I bought this 3-gallon carboy for this reason, I'd like to use it. So, I'll have another gallon of Dead Ringer left over to siphon off into a 1-gallon jug. I have some left over Simcoe and Cluster. Would you dry hop either of those as a 1-gallon experiment?
I probably would have just lengthened the boil to end up with three gallons. 4.25 gallons of 1.042 wort boiled down to 3 gallons yields 1.060 wort...much closer to your goal OG. All grain is not necessarily lighter than any extract counterpart except that attenuation is sometimes better with all grain. You can add sugar/DME to your primary to raise the gravity if you like. I like your dry hop experiment idea. Do it!
