Light beers (SRM < 10ish) with strange off-flavor

[scruff311]

Hey,

I moved at the end of last summer and I have brewed 2 lightish beers on the new setup. They both have had a subtle off-flavor that I can only describe as cleaner/Starsan. The most recent one is an El Dorado single hop beer so I wasn't sure if this hop just has a weird taste. The off-flavor is similar to the last light beer I made so I'm thinking there is a common problem. The 3 or 4 dark beers I have brewed since moving all taste fine.

I have read all over that Starsan will not affect the taste of a beer. So if we rule that out, could my water chemistry be to blame? I always make adjustments using Bru'n Water and aim for a room-temp mash pH of 5.4. Could too much Chloride or Sulfate create this sort of off-flavor?

The flavor is not PBW as I always rinse with blazing hot water and sanitize with Starsan afterwards.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[garcia]

Light beers are difficult to make.

 

[Zoidberg]

Yea off flavors show up a lot more prominent in light beers. I don't see it being starsan but maybe acetaldehyde, its flavor I described as cleaner like before. Its more like a tart green apple though. What yeast and what temp did it ferment at?. Does the flavor remain after being aged?

 

[LandoLincoln]

Yeah, I have problems with light beers too. My water profile is very hard, so I have to add lactic acid to compensate. Typically the lighter the beer, the more lactic acid I have to add. After a certain point (10ml or more in a 10 gallon batch), I think it's the lactic acid that's giving me an off-flavor. I don't know what kind of water you're using for your beers or if you're using lactic acid to balance the pH of your beer.

Anyway...yeah...light colored beers are hard to make. Any minor off-flavors have nowhere to hide. I doubt it's your Star-San, though. That stuff is pretty harmless to flavor in appropriate amounts.

 

[TheBrewingBear]

Light beers are difficult to make.

+1

Clean, light colored beers are the hardest because there's nothing to mask any off flavors. For what it's worth, my 2nd and 3rd blonde batches started with off flavors, but they improved with time -- even in a chilled keezer. I dumped my 1st accidentally fruity blonde which was a mistake. It would have improved with time if I'd only headed the wisdom found elsewhere in these forums.

In your case, I would review cleaning, sanitizing, and yeast management. You probably have the first two down. Improper aeration, pitching, and temperature can make a clean yeast do funny things that might be hidden in more flavorful recipes.

Good luck getting the variables pinned down. Please let us know what works, so we can learn with you. Cheers!

 

[scruff311]

Hmmm, I do have soft water here in the northeast but because my water report ways the pH is very high (10.1? seems crazy to me but its on the official report). Due to the high pH but low alkalinity I usually add lactic acid. Maybe I am adding to much?

@zoidberg, what produces acetaldehyde? The most recent (El Dorado single hop pale ale) was WLP001 @ 68F.

I'm working on my temperature control. I finally built a STC-1000 controller connected to a heater which is useful in my cold basement. I always make a 1L starter for any WLP yeast I use. I'm making a Kolsch using WLP029 this weekend. Made the starter tonight. I'm going to cut the lactic acid from my chem additions and see what happens.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

You said it happened right after moving. Any chance you're tasting chlorophenols? If your previous place used chlorine but the new place uses chloramine, which is harder to get rid of, it could cause an issue.

Either way, with the move, my first thought is water...

 

[scruff311]

Right water would make the most sense, however both places are actually supplied by the same water source.

This is the water chem report http://www.provwater.com/depts/wq/water_char.pdf

 

[Zoidberg]

Acetaldehyde can be caused by oxidizing the beer any point after initial fermentation or from a warm fermentation was 68 the dermening worts temp or the rooms temp?

All good though, if it was acetaldehyde it will fade with time. I've had issues with it and I just kept bottles in warm temps for about a week and the off flavors faded

 

[scruff311]

The fermentation (temp as measured on carboy surface) was 70 for the pale ale (using WLP001) and more recently my Kolsch (using WLP029) just finished primary at a constant 66.

First taste of the Kolsch and I get the same flavor, though not quite as strong. I don't know if it will get stronger with time though. For the Kolsch, I did not add any gypsum/calcium carbonate/calcium chloride/etc. Just straight from the tap. My next test is going to be using filtered water and see if that eliminated the off-flavor.

 

[scruff311]

Could use of brass parts cause off-flavors over time? My HLT and MLT both have brass valves and barbs. I have noticed that a barb on the inside of my HLT has turned a sort of orange-ish color. I noticed this after i mixed a batch of starsan in it. Probably just an acid reaction, but could this create flavor problems? Should brass parts be replaced regularly?

 

[fearwig]

Do you use a pH meter? A principal difference between light and dark beers is pH. This is very probably your culprit.

 

[Weezy]

Try store bought RO/drinking water next time, with no adjustments. I'm betting you'll love the results.

 

[scruff311]

Try store bought RO/drinking water next time, with no adjustments. I'm betting you'll love the results.

Yea this is my next experiment. It's just strange because the water here is from the same source as my previous residence where I never had a problem. I wonder if the plumbing both in the house and in the street here is contributing more alkalinity? My water report is very soft except for the high pH.

http://www.provwater.com/depts/wq/water_char.pdf

 

[alex32]

First taste of the Kolsch and I get the same flavor=awesome

 

[alex32]

well done. carry on guys!

 

[scruff311]

So something occurred to me in my reading about water filtration that may make a ton of sense why my beers taste a little off. The problem began when I started supplying the water to my kettle by way of a garden hose. Water ran through it at room temperature, but I'm starting to read that you shouldn't use a garden hose to fill a kettle for strike/sparge water. Is this true?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Home Brew mobile app

 

[fearwig]

Garden hoses are pretty gross. They sell food safe hoses, but they are $40-50ish. You should avoid normal hoses for safety reasons as well as flavor. I won't pronounce you dead just yet, but y'know, they don't avoid lead, phthalates, and even weirder things because they don't have to market them as food safe. I would not be astounded if that were the culprit (not fully convinced, but would not be astounded).

But I'm still kind of outraged about how full of poison hoses are, because who didn't drink out of a hose as a kid? I drank hot, stagnant water out of a sun-baked hose damn near every day. Might explain something, actually.

 

[Weezy]

Ever drink warm water from a garden hose on a warm sunny, summer day?

 

[fearwig]

Tastes like fhthfhh... I mean fhfhfhhhh... I mean *keels over dead*

 

[scruff311]

Yea it just seems weird because the water is running through the hose at maybe 55F and making contact with the walls for all of 3 seconds tops (it's a 15ft hose). Is that really enough to give the water a rubbery, plastic, chemical flavor?

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Home Brew mobile app

 

[TheBrewingBear]

Yes. Take a glass of water straight from the hose. If it tastes like rubber, I bet that's your problem.

You should invest in a potable water hose.

 

[fearwig]

Saw a 25' one for $17 at ACE the other day. I want at least a 50' so I can use it for garden stuff, but they're not that expensive. They are sometimes just called "Marine/RV" hoses, and you can see they're lead free, etc. if you read the packaging.