Has Sabro ruined my beer?

[refect]

I recently made a NEIPA that has developed a horrible flavor that I am blaming mostly on Sabro hops. It smells amazing in the glass and starts to taste good, but then turns into this sun tan lotion/soapy weird flavor on the back. I see a lot of people describing this horrible flavor from sabro and am curious on others experiences if it has faded with extended conditioning?

I pulled a sample after about a week in the keg to see how it was coming along. It had pretty bad hop burn and vegetable taste. Now 11 days in, the vegetable taste and hop burn have faded significantly,. However, now I'm getting that horrible sun screen/soapy weird flavor in its place.

I used sabro a year ago in a similar neipa recipe and had nothing but pleasant experiences. This year I made the recipe pretty similar, except I used pilsner malt as the base instead of 50/50 golden promise/2 row. I also bumped up the dry hop charge increasing the amount of sabro from 11 - 12% of the dry hops to about 21% of the dry hops. For this recipe my dry hop was about 50% Azacca, 21% Sabro, and 29% Vic Secret. I'm starting to think I shouldn't go more than about 10% with sabro, or I'll just avoid using it if this is the flavor I might get from it.

I was hoping it would be ready to serve at a Christmas party tomorrow, but now I'll probably shut that tap down with how bad it is. Luckily my other 3 taps still have plenty of beer! Does anyone think this flavor will fade with extended conditioning, or has sabro ruined this batch?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

My wife doesn't like sabro because it throws coconut and she doesn't like coconut, so maybe that's the sun tan lotion flavor you mentioned and maybe you don't like coconut but maybe other ppl do? Just a thought.

 

[refect]

My wife doesn't like sabro because it throws coconut and she doesn't like coconut, so maybe that's the sun tan lotion flavor you mentioned and maybe you don't like coconut but maybe other ppl do? Just a thought.

I generally love all things coconut, but the weird flavor I get currently does not reassemble coconut to me at all. As I sip the beer I do get coconut on my palate from time to time. Even as it lingers i can taste some cocnut in my mouth. It has lots of tropical fruit aromas on the nose with pineapple being the one that stands out the most. The sun screen/weird soapy flavor comes in on the back and is more pronounced as it fades on the palate. It's so weird to me.

My water profile was a pretty standard NEIPA profile that started with filtered tap water and distilled water. I also treated the water with a half campden tablet just incase of any chloramine. Mashed at 154 for 60 mins with a 5.3 mash ph. Did a 60 min boil with 20 ibu Magnum addition at 60, and then 3oz azacca/2 oz sabro in the whirlpool. Chilled wort to 85 F and Aerated with pure o2 for about 1 min 45 seconds at 1 liter p/m. Pitched a whole packet of hornindal kviek yeast and let it ferment without temp control. My terminal gravity was lower then I planned. I was shooting for 1.014 and ended at 1.010. No big deal though.

I did a 6 oz dry hop of 50% azacca, 21% sabro, and 29% vic secrete at high krausen. On day 6, I soft crashed to 55 degrees and then dumped yeast/trub and hops. Then I added another 6 oz dry hop of the same amount as the first. After 2 and a half days of the 2nd dry hop addition, I cold crashed to 37 degrees and dumped hops/trub over the course of 2 days. Then racked (closed transfer) to a keg completey purged with co2.

The only thing that concerned me was adding the first round of dry hop while it fermented at 85 F. I didn't have any bad experiences after doing it the first time around of brewing with this hop combo, so i decided to do it again. The only difference was that I was around 10 - 11% sabro in the dry hop.

I really hope this flavor fades because I was looking forward to this one after how good it turned out the first time around. I felt it needed more hops after the first time brewing it, which is why I decided to increase the dry hop amount this time around. Naturally I increased the grain bill a bit, but switched to pilsner as the base to give it a nice straw color.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Following this discussion since I have a hazy pale or session ipa, (going to shoot for around 5.5%abv), in the planning stages, that I'm thinking of hopping with Citra, Citra Lupomax, and Sabro Lupomax. A subtle hint of tropical pineapple/coconut would be ok with me, but I certainly don't want that to be the dominant flavor.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

How old is the beer? A keg of beer is like a child. Sometimes it has to go through a very annoying phase.

I've only used Sabro once, in a very sweet, strong ale. I can't see using it in anything that isn't heavy and sweet.

 

[refect]

Following this discussion since I have a hazy pale or session ipa, (going to shoot for around 5.5%abv), in the planning stages, that I'm thinking of hopping with Citra, Citra Lupomax, and Sabro Lupomax. A subtle hint of tropical pineapple/coconut would be ok with me, but I certainly don't want that to be the dominant flavor.

Based on my experience, I'd go easy on the Sabro. It can get out of hand quick and really dominate. I used around 10% sabro the first time around and it was delicious. I pretty much doubled it this time around and the beer is not pleasant at all. It could be a bad batch of hops too, but they all smelled good in the package.

How old is the beer? A keg of beer is like a child. Sometimes it has to go through a very annoying phase.

I've only used Sabro once, in a very sweet, strong ale. I can't see using it in anything that isn't heavy and sweet.

The keg is currently 11 days old. I know it probabaly needs more time to condition, but this flavor just doesn't seem to be fading. I'm curious if others who have experienced this off flavor from sabro has had it fade out eventually.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sabro sucks, especially if it's used in high proportion. It leans towards artificial coconut flavors as well as stone fruit, which doesn't go together.

 

[wepeeler]

I hated Sabro when I tried it. Everyone in my beer club claimed it threw off coconut and vanilla, but my wort smelled terrible. The end product wasn't much better...

 

[OleBrewing]

never tried the hop strain. so can't comment on sabro itself but other hop varieties also have a limited use as far as percentage and flavor profile. and everyone will perceive it differently. lessoned learned. learned my lesson on the old standby nugget years ago and wasn't even extreme with it but the flavor was not great luckily it mellowed a little.

hops can be very powerful and forth putting. it is tough at times to create a balance; which comes with experience of the indredients.

 

[refect]

Yeah I think I might be joining the sabro sucks train. I'm sure it can make some great beers, but I don't think I want to use it anymore after this experience. I just hope it mellows and becomes somewhat drinkable to where I don't have to dump this batch. As of now I'm trying to like it, but after i get down half a glass I'm done drinking it.

 

[day_trippr]

When Sabro first came out I distinctly remember the "cedar, mint, cream and herbal" and immediately thought "Hard Pass"...

Cheers!

 

[PashMaddle]

Well this is just lovely.
I just got an ounce of Sabro to go in a brown ale and a porter that I’m going to start like tomorrow night. I got it to accompany HBC 472 (which Murphy’s law dictates that everyone will tell me is horrible too now) because I figured the cream/coconut flavors would be good for those two styles.

So I’m following this thread now and hoping that my hop selections don’t ruin my first all grain batch…there are so many other things I can do to banjax the operation without an ingredient doing it for me.

 

[Miraculix]

I like sabro and didn't experience anything weird when using it in a pale.

 

[wdavis2003]

Sabro is the worst and only takes a week IME to dominant the hop character of a NEIPA.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I've had a few ipa's with Sabro in them and really only disliked one of them. In that case the flavor was overwhelming. So far I've see it almost exclusively in ipa's, but I think it could work in a stout. Of course YMMV, but even the OP stated in his first post that he enjoyed the neipa he brewed a year ago which contained a far lesser percentage of Sabro than his current beer has. Sounds like moderation is the key here, at least I hope so since I have a half a pound of Sabro Lupomax in my freezer.

 

[mac_1103]

A keg of beer is like a child. Sometimes it has to go through a very annoying phase.

Much cheaper though. And dumping a child is generally frowned upon.

 

[DonT]

Well this is just lovely.
I just got an ounce of Sabro to go in a brown ale and a porter that I’m going to start like tomorrow night. I got it to accompany HBC 472 (which Murphy’s law dictates that everyone will tell me is horrible too now) because I figured the cream/coconut flavors would be good for those two styles.

So I’m following this thread now and hoping that my hop selections don’t ruin my first all grain batch…there are so many other things I can do to banjax the operation without an ingredient doing it for me.

If you follow thru and brew this I'd be very interested in the result as I was planning a similar brew, a stout using both of those.
I've used Sabro a few times in a NEIPA but never got the soap thing.

 

[YeastFeast]

Background: probably 8 of 10 beers I make are Hazy IPAs, so in other words, I make a lot of them and am obsessed with making a great one.
I like Sabro hops and add them regularly but never more than 10% of the total hops that go into the batch.

Here are a couple things I've learned and am now doing to make a really good Hazy IPA that are good to go on Day 1 (after carbonation of course).
* I've gone to "layering" the hops [it's a Scott Janish thing] (5 gal): .25 oz in the mash, 1.75 at flameout, all other hops go in the dry hop (8-10 oz). I like Idaho 7 a lot for this.
* Other than the mash & flameout hops mentioned above, all other hops (dry hops) get added at or below 55ºF degrees for the dry hop (and each dry hop dose left in for only 24 hours or so). I now believe low temp and short duration is the key to your beer tasting just as good day 1 as it does day 14 or after.
* I've done away with a traditional whirlpool & don't add hops during fermentation as I found I can't tell the difference with or without it. I'm convinced dry hopping is where all the flavor and aroma come from.

Just my opinion from lots of reading and repetitive tries at Hazy IPAs. I'm sure there's plenty of opinions & different ways to make a great one. This works for me.
Cheers.

 

[refect]

Background: probably 8 of 10 beers I make are Hazy IPAs, so in other words, I make a lot of them and am obsessed with making a great one.
I like Sabro hops and add them regularly but never more than 10% of the total hops that go into the batch.

Here are a couple things I've learned and am now doing to make a really good Hazy IPA that are good to go on Day 1 (after carbonation of course).
* I've gone to "layering" the hops [it's a Scott Janish thing] (5 gal): .25 oz in the mash, 1.75 at flameout, all other hops go in the dry hop (8-10 oz). I like Idaho 7 a lot for this.
* Other than the mash & flameout hops mentioned above, all other hops (dry hops) get added at or below 55ºF degrees for the dry hop (and each dry hop dose left in for only 24 hours or so).
* I've done away with a traditional whirlpool & don't add hops during fermentation as I found I can't tell the difference with or without it. I'm convinced dry hopping is where all the flavor and aroma come from.

Just my opinion from lots of reading and repetitive tries at Hazy IPAs. I'm sure there's plenty of opinions & different ways to make a great one. This works for me.
Cheers.

Some good information here! Thanks everyone for the input. IPA is one of my favorite styles, so I tend to brew more of those than anything. Like others, I am always striving to make each batch better.

It seems 10% is a good area to be when using sabro. At least in an IPA. You said you had great experiences with it at 10%. The first time I brewed with the hop combo I mentioned, I was around 10% sabro and it was delicious. Doubled the amount this time around and now it is not so good.

Who knows though. It could do better in darker beers when only using sabro as the hop, or as the majority of the hops? I'd love to hear the results!

 

[AlexKay]

I've enjoyed Sabro very much in black IPAs. There is no question that it has ... personality.

 

[YeastFeast]

Some good information here! Thanks everyone for the input. IPA is one of my favorite styles, so I tend to brew more of those than anything. Like others, I am always striving to make each batch better.

It seems 10% is a good area to be when using sabro. At least in an IPA. You said you had great experiences with it at 10%. The first time I brewed with the hop combo I mentioned, I was around 10% sabro and it was delicious. Doubled the amount this time around and now it is not so good.

Who knows though. It could do better in darker beers when only using sabro as the hop, or as the majority of the hops? I'd love to hear the results!

Sabro can definitely take over. To me, it's also the most distinctive hop out there. Anytime I taste a commercial beer with Sabro, I can immediately identify that they used some amount of it.

 

[Miraculix]

I

Some good information here! Thanks everyone for the input. IPA is one of my favorite styles, so I tend to brew more of those than anything. Like others, I am always striving to make each batch better.

It seems 10% is a good area to be when using sabro. At least in an IPA. You said you had great experiences with it at 10%. The first time I brewed with the hop combo I mentioned, I was around 10% sabro and it was delicious. Doubled the amount this time around and now it is not so good.

Who knows though. It could do better in darker beers when only using sabro as the hop, or as the majority of the hops? I'd love to hear the results!

I've used sabro only in the palest beer I've ever brewed which was 30% pilsner and the rest wheat flour. Made an American wheat ale type of beer with that grist and it was marvellous. Really really good. Don't remember the ibus but it wasn't something crazy. Probably something between 30 and 40 or something like that.

 

[Bobby_M]

Well this is just lovely.
I just got an ounce of Sabro to go in a brown ale and a porter that I’m going to start like tomorrow night. I got it to accompany HBC 472 (which Murphy’s law dictates that everyone will tell me is horrible too now) because I figured the cream/coconut flavors would be good for those two styles.

So I’m following this thread now and hoping that my hop selections don’t ruin my first all grain batch…there are so many other things I can do to banjax the operation without an ingredient doing it for me.

Such a small amount shouldn be an issue especially if used early in the boil.

 

[seatazzz]

I use Sabro coupled with Citra in my house NEIPA., in about a 60/40% Citra/Sabro combo, nothing but late hops in the boil and a hefty dry hop.. It turns out pretty good every time. I'm thinking you just went a bit heavy with it, a little goes a long way with this hop. You want the slight pineapple it can throw, but go too heavy and it hits hard on the coconut and can be a bit harsh. Just my two cents.

 

[refect]

Just thought I'd provide an update...It has been about a month now since I kegged this and the sun tan lotion/soapy taste has faded quite a bit, but it is still there. I've definitely made way better IPA's, but it has went from "I can't drink this at all" to "I can drink it, but it's not my favorite." However, I've noticed when I get enough of a buzz to where my taste diminishes I like it more beacuse I don't taste the sun tan lotion much at all

Moral of this. Definitely go easy on the sabro. I'm sure it can do well as a single hop/main hop, but in lighter portions. I used it in lighter portions and loved the outcome the first time around, but sometimes more is not better because this definitely took over quick and not in a good way. If you do overdue it, then aging it might help. After a month the unpleasant sun tan lotion flavor is still there on the back. It's just more tolerable now.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Thanks for following up on this.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I have made two beers with Sabro. Both were much more heavy in Cedar Wood (yuck!) and Cream (nice!) than Coconut. Most of the commercial Sabro beers I have tried had this same off putting cedar wood flavor, but I have had one or two that were more coconut.

I recall reading from a brewer or a hop distributor that a small amount of Sabro in the whirlpool will give more of the coconut character (and not to use it in the dry hop). I am been wanting to try this on a small batch...but I also have a freezer of hops that I know I like, so it is not a top priority.

 

[PashMaddle]

I have made two beers with Sabro. Both were much more heavy in Cedar Wood (yuck!) and Cream (nice!) than Coconut. Most of the commercial Sabro beers I have tried had this same off putting cedar wood flavor, but I have had one or two that were more coconut.

I recall reading from a brewer or a hop distributor that a small amount of Sabro in the whirlpool will give more of the coconut character (and not to use it in the dry hop). I am been wanting to try this on a small batch...but I also have a freezer of hops that I know I like, so it is not a top priority.

I just tasted a brown ale that I used Sabro for the bittering addition and hbc472 for flavor/aroma and it had more of a creamy/ coconut flavor than cedar. It is a little bit woody but not in a negative way, it kind of fits with the other flavors. I believe this may be attributed to the Hbc being used in conjunction as well… it’s a nice combo imho.

 

[Brooothru]

My wife doesn't like sabro because it throws coconut and she doesn't like coconut, so maybe that's the sun tan lotion flavor you mentioned and maybe you don't like coconut but maybe other ppl do? Just a thought.

My experience exactly. Sabro was a one-and-done for me. Six years ago it was known as HBC 438, nicknamed "Ron Mexico", and was supposed to be the Next Best Hop. I used it in a SMaSH IPA and never finished the keg. Didn't shake my tree at all!