Lallemand Verdant IPA Ale

[beervoid]

yup – 1.2 grams

How do you test for diacetyl?
And did you dry hop already?

 

[woof]

How do you test for diacetyl?
And did you dry hop already?

just a normal forced diacetyl test. pulled sample gets a 150ºF water bath for 15 minutes. fwiw, i've done two tests so far, one at day 6 and one at 8. there was definitely a significant reduction, so i'm confident it will clean up shortly.

no, i'm waiting for it to pass the diacetyl test. will then soft crash before dry hopping.

 

[aaronm13]

Used it last week for the first time in my attempt at Even Sharks Need Water. I just sprinkled one pack into the wort (1.068 and 24L/6 gallons) so could get a nice under pitch. 24 hours after pitching there was still no activity so kinda panicked and re-hydrated a second pack and added that. Took off like a rocket and was pretty much at terminal after 3 days. Sort crashing now (day 8) for adding the first dry hop. Probably well over pitched it with having to add the second pack but at least it finished out. London Fog is my house strain for NEIPAs so will be interested to see how it compares.

 

[schmurf]

The Craft Beer Channel have made a couple of videos using it for their version of a Neipa. Somewhat biased perhaps but nevertheless they are happy with it.

 

[crusader1612]

They just released the recipe Even Sharks Need Water

Ingredients Included
Crisp Extra Pale (Lager) Malt (3300 grams)
Simpsons Finest Pale Ale Golden Promise®™ (800 grams)
Flaked Oats Including Husk (900 grams)
Weyermann® Carapils® (450 grams)
Crisp Pale Wheat Malt (220 grams)
Flaked Wheat (220 grams)
Magnum Pellets (3 grams)
Galaxy™ Pellets (150 grams)
Citra Pellets (240 grams)
LALBREW® VERDANT IPA Dried Yeast 11g (Not included)

Method
Beer Style (main): American Ales
Beer Style (sub): Juicy or Hazy India Pale Ale
Batch Size: 19L
Original Gravity: 1.065
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV %: 6.5%
IBU: 7.3

THE MASH
Temperature °C: 67c
Length (mins): 45mins
Out temp °C:
Out time (mins):

THE BOIL
Boil time (mins): 60

Additions and timing:

3g Magnum (12% AA) @ First Wort Hops

Yeast-Vit @ 15minutes (not included)

80degree 30 min whirlpool/hopstand = 30g Galaxy & 60g Citra

Secondary additions and timing:

Post ferment dry hop = 120g Galaxy T90’s & 180g Citra T90’s (16gpl dry hop)

Dry hop rouse and crash to zero. Keep hop contact time to less than 72 hours if possible.

Yeast: Lallemand Verdant IPA (not included)
Fermentation temperature/steps: pitch at 18 and let rise to 19 and hold. Free rise to 22 for D rest once gravity is at about 1.030. The dry yeast version rages! Expect a massive krausen and potentially higher than anticipated attenuation on generation 1.

anyone done this one??
I've been reading that verdant have Simcoe in their hopping as well?! My thoughts are to do this:
----------
3g Simcoe (12% AA) @ First Wort Hops

Yeast-Vit @ 15minutes (not included)

80degree 30 min whirlpool/hopstand = 30g Galaxy & 30g citra & 60g simcoe

Secondary additions and timing:

Post ferment dry hop = 120g Galaxy & 170g Citra
----------

 

[tbaldwin000]

anyone done this one??
I've been reading that verdant have Simcoe in their hopping as well?! My thoughts are to do this:
----------
3g Simcoe (12% AA) @ First Wort Hops

Yeast-Vit @ 15minutes (not included)

80degree 30 min whirlpool/hopstand = 30g Galaxy & 30g citra & 60g simcoe

Secondary additions and timing:

Post ferment dry hop = 120g Galaxy & 170g Citra
----------

They don't have any Simcoe in Sharks, it was just a label typo that has proliferated around the net.

 

[thehaze]

The combination of Pilsner with Imperial malt and the yeast gives of an intense stone fruit aroma - dried/ripe apricots - combined with a dark fruity note from the malt. At only 30% , Imperial malt is definitely intense.

Next on my list ( in a month or so ) are a couple of hoppy beers, which will be fermented with Verdant yeast: a DH Pale Ale with Motueka, Mistral and El Dorado hops and an IPA with Motueka, Nectaron, Southern Cross and Taiheke.

 

[SanPancho]

The combination of Pilsner with Imperial malt and the yeast gives of an intense stone fruit aroma - dried/ripe apricots - combined with a dark fruity note from the malt. At only 30% , Imperial malt is definitely intense.

Next on my list ( in a month or so ) are a couple of hoppy beers, which will be fermented with Verdant yeast: a DH Pale Ale with Motueka, Mistral and El Dorado hops and an IPA with Motueka, Nectaron, Southern Cross and Taiheke.

Whats the imperial like? Description is weird, 15-19L but maintain enzymatic activity? Having trouble imagining that one.

 

[thehaze]

Whats the imperial like? Description is weird, 15-19L but maintain enzymatic activity? Having trouble imagining that one.

This are some descriptors directly from Simpsons:

"Beer Styles: Light Ales, Brown Ales, Porter and Stout
Malt Flavour: Biscuit Dry Sweetness (Honey/Plums), Bread Crust
Usage: Up to 20% in Light Ales to enhance flavour, Up to 50% in Brown Ales & Porters, Up to 80% in Dark Beers & Stouts "

I haven't experienced a huge drop in extraction when using it ( there will be some ). It will certainly not provide the same enzymatic activity as a light kilned base malt. I've only used it in a Pastry Milk Stout and the amber Bitter mentioned above. For me, it adds some of that sweet ( overripe, but somewhat fresh smelling, exciting flavour ) cherry, maybe plums, sweetness, yes, but not a lot of dates/raisins, etc. It does complement english yeast and certainly a dark grist with roasted malts. And I wasn't shy using it: 30% in my latest bitter and 35% in the Stout. I will keep using it. I feel that, for my taste, porters, stouts and any pale/red english beers will benefit from it. If you would like to use it, maybe go less than 30% for your first try. 80% Maris Otter and 20% Imperial might result in a delicious table/small english pale.

 

[beervoid]

Used it last week for the first time in my attempt at Even Sharks Need Water. I just sprinkled one pack into the wort (1.068 and 24L/6 gallons) so could get a nice under pitch. 24 hours after pitching there was still no activity so kinda panicked and re-hydrated a second pack and added that. Took off like a rocket and was pretty much at terminal after 3 days. Sort crashing now (day 8) for adding the first dry hop. Probably well over pitched it with having to add the second pack but at least it finished out. London Fog is my house strain for NEIPAs so will be interested to see how it compares.

What was your attenuation?

 

[couchsending]

Used one pack in a 1.049 pale ale last week. Fermentation started quickly and finished rather quickly. Didn’t get the attenuation I was thinking I might based on that quote from Verdant. I did mash a little warmer and used a decent amount of Carahell which might be why? Pret sure it stopped at 1.014 which was a bit higher than I hoped. Tomorrow will be day 3 on Dhops (50/50 Nectaron/Mosaic). Sample on day 1 was really odd which can happen with colder dry hopping. Sample on day 2 was really promising. Will most likely start cooling shortly.

Harvested a decent amount of slurry and that went straight into a 1.062 IPA. Pitched at 64, fermenting at 66. Took off quickly but end of day 2 seemed to slow slightly which was odd? Checked gravity and only 1.036. Ramped temp up to 68. Maybe ramp to 70 tomorrow. I generally don’t like warm fermented 1318 so tried to keep it a bit colder. We’ll se if it has any adverse effects.

I’ve been pretty much using Vermont Ale from The Yeast Bay exclusively as of late and I will say that just based on tasting gravity samples Verdant doesn’t let hops completely shine like VT does. There seems to be a bit of trampling. Not as bad as some English strains but not as good as VT. We’ll see in a few weeks when the beer is ready to go.

 

[beervoid]

Used one pack in a 1.049 pale ale last week. Fermentation started quickly and finished rather quickly. Didn’t get the attenuation I was thinking I might based on that quote from Verdant. I did mash a little warmer and used a decent amount of Carahell which might be why? Pret sure it stopped at 1.014 which was a bit higher than I hoped. Tomorrow will be day 3 on Dhops (50/50 Nectaron/Mosaic). Sample on day 1 was really odd which can happen with colder dry hopping. Sample on day 2 was really promising. Will most likely start cooling shortly.

Harvested a decent amount of slurry and that went straight into a 1.062 IPA. Pitched at 64, fermenting at 66. Took off quickly but end of day 2 seemed to slow slightly which was odd? Checked gravity and only 1.036. Ramped temp up to 68. Maybe ramp to 70 tomorrow. I generally don’t like warm fermented 1318 so tried to keep it a bit colder. We’ll se if it has any adverse effects.

I’ve been pretty much using Vermont Ale from The Yeast Bay exclusively as of late and I will say that just based on tasting gravity samples Verdant doesn’t let hops completely shine like VT does. There seems to be a bit of trampling. Not as bad as some English strains but not as good as VT. We’ll see in a few weeks when the beer is ready to go.

So 71% attenuation. How high did you mash? and how much did you pitch?

 

[aaronm13]

What was your attenuation?

Got 73.4% attenuation. OG 1.067 FG 1,017. I mashed at 67C/152.6F. Kegged it last night so will leave for a week or so to condition before trying but sample so far is good just a bit of Galaxy burn.

 

[stijn26]

I used this one in a recipe with OG 1.065.
used 10% GNO and 5% Cara.
Got a FG of 1.022, stable for 2 weeks (ramped up to hotter temps).
Mashed at 66°C.

Curious to see the high FG...

 

[beervoid]

I used this one in a recipe with OG 1.065.
used 10% GNO and 5% Cara.
Got a FG of 1.022, stable for 2 weeks (ramped up to hotter temps).
Mashed at 66°C.

Curious to see the high FG...

How much did you pitch?
I think the GNO might have upped fg

 

[stijn26]

I calculated the amount with Pitching rate calculator | Lallemand Brewing so did not underpitch.
I'm also thinking the GNO and Cara malt but not for that big of a difference.

 

[thehaze]

I used this one in a recipe with OG 1.065.
used 10% GNO and 5% Cara.
Got a FG of 1.022, stable for 2 weeks (ramped up to hotter temps).
Mashed at 66°C.

Curious to see the high FG...

You're only at 65% AA, which is low, even with 10% GNO and 5% Caramalt and the 66°C mash. Lallemand says between 72 and 82% AA, so everything matters. I think 100% base malt, 63-64C mash and some 5% simple sugar would get you to 78-80%. What is " hotter temps. " after two weeks?

 

[stijn26]

Disregard the 1.018, there was some yeast on the Tilt. Actual FG was 1.022.
Main ferment at 18°C, ramped up to 22°C.

 

[beervoid]

View attachment 699426

Disregard the 1.018, there was some yeast on the Tilt. Actual FG was 1.022.
Main ferment at 18°C, ramped up to 22°C.

Did you double check with hydrometer?
Are you sure your mash temps are right?
This is peculiar considering they claim it attenuates higher on first generation.
Did you loose alot by blowoff?

 

[stijn26]

Used 2 different hydrometers at 20°C to double check.
Mash temps should be in order, although not 100% sure.
No blowoff loss.

 

[peterj]

I actually had a similar situation with a NEIPA I just did. 1.066 OG that only got down to 1.022. 67% AA. This one was extract (MoreBeer Ultralight LME), but I have done basically this same recipe a bunch of times before and it usually gets 75%-80% AA with 1318, Notty, or US-05. It had less than 10% cara malts (Carapils, Honey Malt, and Caramunich) and I even added a pound of maple syrup this time. Fermentation took off within a day of pitching and the krausen got a little wild but I didn't lose any. Pitched at 18C and after the gravity started leveling out I raised it to 20C, then 22C. I took about 3 or 4 hydrometer readings over the course of a few days to verify my Tilt wasn't messed up, and they were all about 1.022. The tilt did have a bunch of krausen on it as did the top of the beer so I think that's what was giving me the jumpy readings at the end.

The beer actually tasted pretty good so I went ahead and dry hopped and kegged. The post dry hop gravity sample tasted really good. It is definitely sweeter than I was anticipating, but I think it works with the style. Hopefully it'll taste good cold and carbed. Good to hear someone else is having low attenuation issues too and it's not just me. I'm planning to do an ESB with this yeast that I have brewed before so I'll see if the gravity does the same thing. Though if the flavor is as good as it seemed in my hydrometer sample, I might just try to adjust fermentability with recipe and mash temps.

 

[couchsending]

I definitely haven’t experienced High attenuation with this yeast.

First one went from 1.048/1.049 to 1.013 mashed at 152. Was a pretty quick ferment but pH didn’t drop as much as I was hoping. Fermented at 68. One pack.

Harvested after soft crashing to 60 and pitched that directly into a 1.062 wort mashed at 150 and only got to 1.016 but it might be still going. Dropped 3 points in the last 3 days. Took off quickly but slowed down considerably after 2 days. Oxygenated for 3 minutes at .5L/min. yeast nutrients added to the FV. Pitched at 64, fermented at 66, raised to 68 after 2 days then 70 after 5. Wonder if I might have overpitched actually. Gonna add some hops and keep it warm to see if I can get some hop creep to get it a little lower.

 

[beervoid]

I definitely haven’t experienced High attenuation with this yeast.

First one went from 1.048/1.049 to 1.013 mashed at 152. Was a pretty quick ferment but pH didn’t drop as much as I was hoping. Fermented at 68. One pack.

Harvested after soft crashing to 60 and pitched that directly into a 1.062 wort mashed at 150 and only got to 1.016 but it might be still going. Dropped 3 points in the last 3 days. Took off quickly but slowed down considerably after 2 days. Oxygenated for 3 minutes at .5L/min. yeast nutrients added to the FV. Pitched at 64, fermented at 66, raised to 68 after 2 days then 70 after 5. Wonder if I might have overpitched actually. Gonna add some hops and keep it warm to see if I can get some hop creep to get it a little lower.

How much are you pitching?
And how much adjuncts?
Will be brewing with this yeast in a week or so

 

[couchsending]

How much are you pitching?
And how much adjuncts?
Will be brewing with this yeast in a week or so

First beer was 1 pack into 6 gallons 1.048. 2row/GP, 4.8% Carahell, 2% Carastan, 2% Acid.


2nd beer was harvested slurry that I did weigh but I’ll have to look at my notes. I based the pitch off of Wyeast’s repitching guidelines by weight. Might have still been too much. Beer was 2 Row, 13% malted oats, 2.4% Aromatic, 2% Acid, 1.6% Carafoam. Ferment has been slower than I wanted. It’s getting there but too slowly, should be done by now. I know 1318 has higher o2 demands than other yeasts so I might not have added enough o2 based on the quantity of yeast I pitched. pH didn’t drop as much as I would have liked on either beer.

Tasted an early sample of beer one and is tasting on point. I do get a bit of the vanilla ester they talk about.

 

[thehaze]

I suppose the yeast might be a lower attenuator, but it seems contradictory with all the info Lallemand has shown on the yeast. It also feels like they have been pretty transparent ( or at least tried to ) about their testing and what to expect from the yeast - that shows a bit of effort.

I am still wanting to test the yeast more - I've planned a few brews in the forthcoming months, so hopefully, I will get an idea on its attenuation. I am thinking maybe it its needs a lower mash temperature ( 63-65C / 145-149F ) to come up to that 75-80% AA...

 

[beervoid]

All I can think of, since it is a new product, perhaps viability is not as high as they envisioned? Rule of thumb is if you pitch higher you should get more attenuation?

@couchsending interesting about the vanilla note, I read that a couple of times. Sounds a bit like the RVA Manchester strain Sapwood Cellar is using.

 

[couchsending]

I think it has real potential and might be the best dried yeast that’s not US05. Just might take a bit to learn it’s ins and outs.

 

[peterj]

I think it has real potential and might be the best dried yeast that’s not US05. Just make take a bit to learn it’s in’s and outs.

Yeah I agree. I just tried the NEIPA I did with it last night, and it is actually one of the best I've made despite the high FG. I'm for sure getting the apricot and vanilla esters too. I'm definitely going to keep brewing with it and try to figure out how best to use it.

 

[apache_brew]

I'm digging this yeast. I just used it to make my first NEIPA and it killed it down to 1.011 from 1.063 and packaged in 11 days. First NEIPA. Feedback? Before I added dry hops all I could taste was nectarines.

 

[crusader1612]

What are peoples thoughts on using this in a more West coat Style IPA?