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Lallemand Verdant IPA Ale

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couchsending

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Used one pack in a 1.049 pale ale last week. Fermentation started quickly and finished rather quickly. Didn’t get the attenuation I was thinking I might based on that quote from Verdant. I did mash a little warmer and used a decent amount of Carahell which might be why? Pret sure it stopped at 1.014 which was a bit higher than I hoped. Tomorrow will be day 3 on Dhops (50/50 Nectaron/Mosaic). Sample on day 1 was really odd which can happen with colder dry hopping. Sample on day 2 was really promising. Will most likely start cooling shortly.

Harvested a decent amount of slurry and that went straight into a 1.062 IPA. Pitched at 64, fermenting at 66. Took off quickly but end of day 2 seemed to slow slightly which was odd? Checked gravity and only 1.036. Ramped temp up to 68. Maybe ramp to 70 tomorrow. I generally don’t like warm fermented 1318 so tried to keep it a bit colder. We’ll se if it has any adverse effects.

I’ve been pretty much using Vermont Ale from The Yeast Bay exclusively as of late and I will say that just based on tasting gravity samples Verdant doesn’t let hops completely shine like VT does. There seems to be a bit of trampling. Not as bad as some English strains but not as good as VT. We’ll see in a few weeks when the beer is ready to go.
 

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Used one pack in a 1.049 pale ale last week. Fermentation started quickly and finished rather quickly. Didn’t get the attenuation I was thinking I might based on that quote from Verdant. I did mash a little warmer and used a decent amount of Carahell which might be why? Pret sure it stopped at 1.014 which was a bit higher than I hoped. Tomorrow will be day 3 on Dhops (50/50 Nectaron/Mosaic). Sample on day 1 was really odd which can happen with colder dry hopping. Sample on day 2 was really promising. Will most likely start cooling shortly.

Harvested a decent amount of slurry and that went straight into a 1.062 IPA. Pitched at 64, fermenting at 66. Took off quickly but end of day 2 seemed to slow slightly which was odd? Checked gravity and only 1.036. Ramped temp up to 68. Maybe ramp to 70 tomorrow. I generally don’t like warm fermented 1318 so tried to keep it a bit colder. We’ll se if it has any adverse effects.

I’ve been pretty much using Vermont Ale from The Yeast Bay exclusively as of late and I will say that just based on tasting gravity samples Verdant doesn’t let hops completely shine like VT does. There seems to be a bit of trampling. Not as bad as some English strains but not as good as VT. We’ll see in a few weeks when the beer is ready to go.
So 71% attenuation. How high did you mash? and how much did you pitch?
 

stijn26

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I used this one in a recipe with OG 1.065.
used 10% GNO and 5% Cara.
Got a FG of 1.022, stable for 2 weeks (ramped up to hotter temps).
Mashed at 66°C.

Curious to see the high FG...
 

beervoid

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I used this one in a recipe with OG 1.065.
used 10% GNO and 5% Cara.
Got a FG of 1.022, stable for 2 weeks (ramped up to hotter temps).
Mashed at 66°C.

Curious to see the high FG...
How much did you pitch?
I think the GNO might have upped fg
 

thehaze

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I used this one in a recipe with OG 1.065.
used 10% GNO and 5% Cara.
Got a FG of 1.022, stable for 2 weeks (ramped up to hotter temps).
Mashed at 66°C.

Curious to see the high FG...
You're only at 65% AA, which is low, even with 10% GNO and 5% Caramalt and the 66°C mash. Lallemand says between 72 and 82% AA, so everything matters. I think 100% base malt, 63-64C mash and some 5% simple sugar would get you to 78-80%. What is " hotter temps. " after two weeks?
 

stijn26

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Screenshot 2020-09-21 at 13.26.32.png


Disregard the 1.018, there was some yeast on the Tilt. Actual FG was 1.022.
Main ferment at 18°C, ramped up to 22°C.
 

beervoid

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View attachment 699426

Disregard the 1.018, there was some yeast on the Tilt. Actual FG was 1.022.
Main ferment at 18°C, ramped up to 22°C.
Did you double check with hydrometer?
Are you sure your mash temps are right?
This is peculiar considering they claim it attenuates higher on first generation.
Did you loose alot by blowoff?
 

stijn26

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Used 2 different hydrometers at 20°C to double check.
Mash temps should be in order, although not 100% sure.
No blowoff loss.
 

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I actually had a similar situation with a NEIPA I just did. 1.066 OG that only got down to 1.022. 67% AA. This one was extract (MoreBeer Ultralight LME), but I have done basically this same recipe a bunch of times before and it usually gets 75%-80% AA with 1318, Notty, or US-05. It had less than 10% cara malts (Carapils, Honey Malt, and Caramunich) and I even added a pound of maple syrup this time. Fermentation took off within a day of pitching and the krausen got a little wild but I didn't lose any. Pitched at 18C and after the gravity started leveling out I raised it to 20C, then 22C. I took about 3 or 4 hydrometer readings over the course of a few days to verify my Tilt wasn't messed up, and they were all about 1.022. The tilt did have a bunch of krausen on it as did the top of the beer so I think that's what was giving me the jumpy readings at the end.

The beer actually tasted pretty good so I went ahead and dry hopped and kegged. The post dry hop gravity sample tasted really good. It is definitely sweeter than I was anticipating, but I think it works with the style. Hopefully it'll taste good cold and carbed. Good to hear someone else is having low attenuation issues too and it's not just me. I'm planning to do an ESB with this yeast that I have brewed before so I'll see if the gravity does the same thing. Though if the flavor is as good as it seemed in my hydrometer sample, I might just try to adjust fermentability with recipe and mash temps.
 

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couchsending

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I definitely haven’t experienced High attenuation with this yeast.

First one went from 1.048/1.049 to 1.013 mashed at 152. Was a pretty quick ferment but pH didn’t drop as much as I was hoping. Fermented at 68. One pack.

Harvested after soft crashing to 60 and pitched that directly into a 1.062 wort mashed at 150 and only got to 1.016 but it might be still going. Dropped 3 points in the last 3 days. Took off quickly but slowed down considerably after 2 days. Oxygenated for 3 minutes at .5L/min. yeast nutrients added to the FV. Pitched at 64, fermented at 66, raised to 68 after 2 days then 70 after 5. Wonder if I might have overpitched actually. Gonna add some hops and keep it warm to see if I can get some hop creep to get it a little lower.
 

beervoid

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I definitely haven’t experienced High attenuation with this yeast.

First one went from 1.048/1.049 to 1.013 mashed at 152. Was a pretty quick ferment but pH didn’t drop as much as I was hoping. Fermented at 68. One pack.

Harvested after soft crashing to 60 and pitched that directly into a 1.062 wort mashed at 150 and only got to 1.016 but it might be still going. Dropped 3 points in the last 3 days. Took off quickly but slowed down considerably after 2 days. Oxygenated for 3 minutes at .5L/min. yeast nutrients added to the FV. Pitched at 64, fermented at 66, raised to 68 after 2 days then 70 after 5. Wonder if I might have overpitched actually. Gonna add some hops and keep it warm to see if I can get some hop creep to get it a little lower.
How much are you pitching?
And how much adjuncts?
Will be brewing with this yeast in a week or so
 
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couchsending

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How much are you pitching?
And how much adjuncts?
Will be brewing with this yeast in a week or so
First beer was 1 pack into 6 gallons 1.048. 2row/GP, 4.8% Carahell, 2% Carastan, 2% Acid.


2nd beer was harvested slurry that I did weigh but I’ll have to look at my notes. I based the pitch off of Wyeast’s repitching guidelines by weight. Might have still been too much. Beer was 2 Row, 13% malted oats, 2.4% Aromatic, 2% Acid, 1.6% Carafoam. Ferment has been slower than I wanted. It’s getting there but too slowly, should be done by now. I know 1318 has higher o2 demands than other yeasts so I might not have added enough o2 based on the quantity of yeast I pitched. pH didn’t drop as much as I would have liked on either beer.

Tasted an early sample of beer one and is tasting on point. I do get a bit of the vanilla ester they talk about.
 

thehaze

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I suppose the yeast might be a lower attenuator, but it seems contradictory with all the info Lallemand has shown on the yeast. It also feels like they have been pretty transparent ( or at least tried to ) about their testing and what to expect from the yeast - that shows a bit of effort.

I am still wanting to test the yeast more - I've planned a few brews in the forthcoming months, so hopefully, I will get an idea on its attenuation. I am thinking maybe it its needs a lower mash temperature ( 63-65C / 145-149F ) to come up to that 75-80% AA...
 

beervoid

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All I can think of, since it is a new product, perhaps viability is not as high as they envisioned? Rule of thumb is if you pitch higher you should get more attenuation?

@couchsending interesting about the vanilla note, I read that a couple of times. Sounds a bit like the RVA Manchester strain Sapwood Cellar is using.
 

couchsending

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I think it has real potential and might be the best dried yeast that’s not US05. Just might take a bit to learn it’s ins and outs.
 
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peterj

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I think it has real potential and might be the best dried yeast that’s not US05. Just make take a bit to learn it’s in’s and outs.
Yeah I agree. I just tried the NEIPA I did with it last night, and it is actually one of the best I've made despite the high FG. I'm for sure getting the apricot and vanilla esters too. I'm definitely going to keep brewing with it and try to figure out how best to use it.
 

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I'm digging this yeast. I just used it to make my first NEIPA and it killed it down to 1.011 from 1.063 and packaged in 11 days. First NEIPA. Feedback? Before I added dry hops all I could taste was nectarines.
 

thehaze

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What are peoples thoughts on using this in a more West coat Style IPA?
I think it will work well. You can push its attenuation to around 78-80 ( hopefully - it is also what the brewer from Verdant stated ) by mashing low and adding a 5-7% simple sugar to the grainbill. It's ester profile will round up the hop profile, so I'm not seeing anything that would stop this yeast from being used for any style of IPA.
 

couchsending

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I know a brewery that has won GABF, Alpha King, etc for their hoppy beers that are definitely more “West Coast” in style using 1318. This yeast is basically 1318. You just need to dry it out, ferment it a bit colder, and up your CaSo4 to aid in that drier, more crisp perception.

Mash at 149
Use some sugar
Ferment at 64-66
Dry hop a little colder
150ppm Ca with mostly gypsum
 

MrPowers

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After reading this thread, I'm definitely getting excited to try this yeast. I just ordered 4 packets to have some on hand. I will probably brew a Citra single hop for the first beer to about 1.046-1.050 to get a feel for it and then give it a go in the trillium recipe.
 

Beer-lord

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I think it will work well. You can push its attenuation to around 78-80 ( hopefully - it is also what the brewer from Verdant stated ) by mashing low and adding a 5-7% simple sugar to the grainbill. It's ester profile will round up the hop profile, so I'm not seeing anything that would stop this yeast from being used for any style of IPA.
I'm curious about this yeast in a WCIPA as well as a big Pale Ale. I would think mashing at 149 then using a bit extra yeast nutrient and maybe extra oxygenation would help with a better attenuation. I don't care if it clears up, I'm just a bit tired of drinking and brewing NEIPA's and have been craving a drier, hoppier beer right about now.
 

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I'm curious about this yeast in a WCIPA as well as a big Pale Ale. I would think mashing at 149 then using a bit extra yeast nutrient and maybe extra oxygenation would help with a better attenuation. I don't care if it clears up, I'm just a bit tired of drinking and brewing NEIPA's and have been craving a drier, hoppier beer right about now.
Like you said, I mashed at 149, YN, oxygen stone transferred, and it ripped through my 1.063 wort in 7 days down to 1.011 (82% apparent attenuation).
 

thehaze

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I'm curious about this yeast in a WCIPA as well as a big Pale Ale. I would think mashing at 149 then using a bit extra yeast nutrient and maybe extra oxygenation would help with a better attenuation. I don't care if it clears up, I'm just a bit tired of drinking and brewing NEIPA's and have been craving a drier, hoppier beer right about now.
149F/65C is fine, but I know that brewers do mash lower than that. I remember seeing Cloudwater, somewhere when they started their DIPA, they were mashing at 63C/145F. That coupled with some sugar and a healthy fermentation, will definitely reach higher attenuation. Body will suffer, but then again, a DIPA or a dry WC will benefit from it.
 

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Another high FG. Mashed at 67, fermented as per the maltmiller guidelines (pretty much the same malt bill minus the yeast nutrient), 1 pack for 23L. Currently sitting at 1.018 after 7 days and the yeast is dropping. Was thinking of dry hopping now at 22C to try and encourage some hop creep but unsure what to do in terms of diacetyl afterwards.
 

couchsending

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Another high FG. Mashed at 67, fermented as per the maltmiller guidelines (pretty much the same malt bill minus the yeast nutrient), 1 pack for 23L. Currently sitting at 1.018 after 7 days and the yeast is dropping. Was thinking of dry hopping now at 22C to try and encourage some hop creep but unsure what to do in terms of diacetyl afterwards.
I did this and went from 1.0165 to 1.013 with some creep. Left it for 5 days at 68F. Did a forced diacetyl test on day 5 and got nothing so I started cooling 5F every 10-12 hours. No diacetyl in the crashed sample. Just need to give it time.
 

beervoid

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I did this and went from 1.0165 to 1.013 with some creep. Left it for 5 days at 68F. Did a forced diacetyl test on day 5 and got nothing so I started cooling 5F every 10-12 hours. No diacetyl in the crashed sample. Just need to give it time.
But you are able to dump the hops right? Would be difficult if you cant, and letting the hops sit on the beer for that long might have an effect on the final taste
 

couchsending

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But you are able to dump the hops right? Would be difficult if you cant, and letting the hops sit on the beer for that long might have an effect on the final taste
yes. I dumped the flocced yeast first then left the hops for 4 days then started dumping them. Think I dumped hops twice.
 

couchsending

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Do you experience any flavor difference by longer contact times?
I’ve been soft crashing, removing yeast, and dry hopping at between 55 and 60 for probably the last 2 years or so. I just recently have tried dry hopping after fermentation is done and I’ve harvested some yeast but not cooled the beer just to see what the differences are as I hadn’t done it in a while. I’ve had hop creep happen every time, as much as 1* plato. A couple of times it was a welcome gravity drop and a couple times it was a bit much.

I think you can get some off flavors from extended yeast/hop contact time at elevated temps especially with really high dry hopping loads and high alpha high oil hops. That sulphury, rotting vegetal, “pumpkin guts”, aroma is I think caused by that but I’m not 100% sure honestly. I think I would have to brew the same beer side by side and change the dry hopping process on each to really be able to compare. Hopefully in the next month I will as I will finally have my larger system up and running and can split 15g into 2 or 3 separate fermenters and evaluate cold side process variables side by side.
 

beervoid

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I’ve been soft crashing, removing yeast, and dry hopping at between 55 and 60 for probably the last 2 years or so. I just recently have tried dry hopping after fermentation is done and I’ve harvested some yeast but not cooled the beer just to see what the differences are as I hadn’t done it in a while. I’ve had hop creep happen every time, as much as 1* plato. A couple of times it was a welcome gravity drop and a couple times it was a bit much.

I think you can get some off flavors from extended yeast/hop contact time at elevated temps especially with really high dry hopping loads and high alpha high oil hops. That sulphury, rotting vegetal, “pumpkin guts”, aroma is I think caused by that but I’m not 100% sure honestly. I think I would have to brew the same beer side by side and change the dry hopping process on each to really be able to compare. Hopefully in the next month I will as I will finally have my larger system up and running and can split 15g into 2 or 3 separate fermenters and evaluate cold side process variables side by side.
Ok interesting, I have gotten this vegetal rotten fruit flavor from dry hopping cold. Been going back and forth between both processes. It has to be some combination of hop quality and dry hop temps.
 
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Has anyone used this yeast for a British bitter/esb?
Following on from the Scottish 60 Shilling ( see earlier post ) I brewed a low gravity English Bitter at 1.039 with around 28 IBU's mashed at 66C for 90 minutes, the pitching rate was 0.5g/L of re-hydrated dried yeast. The fermentation at 17-22C was quite rapid with terminal gravity at 1.007 being reached after 4 days. After skimming the remaining yeast off and leaving a further 3 days to cool to 15C, the beer was kegged / bottled with usual rate of sugar priming's. Quite pleased with the result with a relatively full malty flavour for the style plus a little pleasant residual sweetness. Not much hop character but then I didn't dry-hop although did chuck in 30g Bobek pellets at flame-out for the 32L brew. I did add a little Wyeast Nutrient at the end of boil but may omit this in future with low gravity beers.
 

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I just pitched a NE APA with this. 1.050. Riwaka/Citra. 80/12/8 Golden Promise/White Wheat Malt/GNO.

The Verdant yeast smelled wildly different out of the packet compared to any other dry yeast I’ve used.
 

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Just pulled a sample of my first attempt with Verdant. Grain bill was 70% base, 28% wheat (flaked, malted, torrified), and 2% crystal. Mashed at 151F. Fermented at 68F, ramped up a few degrees toward the end. I actually pressure fermented/let it spund after I dry hopped on day 3. Ended up at 1.018 for an attenuation of 74%. The beer still has quite a bit of hop bite in it but I’m super excited for it once it settles...very orange juicy, and I feel like that apricot thing is there.
40983B20-0BD8-44CE-97B7-74C65E527679.jpeg
 

beervoid

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Pitched 1 pack in 5 gallons with 10% flaked adjuncts. Went from 1.070 to 1.015
Esters are very much like 1318 and the krauzen as well. Had huge blowoff. Def will use this again.
 

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Going to try this yeast on the Stone IPA.
It has always previously been centennial, but i just check the website and found this ??



FEATURED HOPS
Magnum
Chinook
Centennial
Azacca
Calypso
Motueka
Ella & Vic Secret™

WTF?!
 
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