Lager Yeast - Liquid vs. Dry

[winvarin]

I just recently started brewing again last year after about a 10 year hiatus. Back in the early 90s, I did not have a wide variety of quality dry yeasts to choose from so I got into liquid yeast fairly quickly. It seemed the conventional wisdom then was that liquid yeast was superior to dry in every way.

So I started brewing again last year and stuck exclusively to ales while I got the brewery back into gear. Some posts on this board made me decide to try dry yeasts again, indicating that the quality, consistency and stability of the dry yeasts on the market had improved significantly during my time away from the craft. I started experimenting and have gone almost exclusively to S-05 for my American style ales.

The addition of a refrigerator for temp-controlled ale fermentation has had me thinking about lagers again. I haven't brewed a lager in 12+ years and my memories were of tempermental liquid yeasts that were a lot more headaches than they were worth. But I've also seen a number of posts where people seem to be having success with quality dried lager yeasts.

Due to the larger pitching rates required by lagers, the idea of using a good quality, clean, stable dried yeast appeals to me. Thinking about being able to just re-hydrate a couple of dry packets on lager brew day and pop the whole thing in my brew fridge has had me considering bending to the SWMBO's request to make her a couple of my old lager recipes (she's a major Harp and Stella fan).

I'd be interested in hearing others thoughts, advice and success (or failure) stories re: using dried vs. liquid lager yeast. I'm sure the same caveat that applies to dried ale yeasts applies here (i.e., if you're doing a standard beer in this set of subcategories, this or that dried yeast is fine; but if you're doing a specialty, wheat, Belgian, etc., then it's better to get a liquid tailored to your recipe).

But any input is welcome.

 

[schoolmaster]

I don't really think that there is much of a debate... as long as you pitch a healthy amount of yeast into a well prepared wort and give it good conditions you will achieve great results regardless of liquid or dry yeasts.

Personally, I am a big fan of making big yeast starters, this lends itself to using liquid yeast. Dry yeast have a level of "stored" energy that helps them get going once they are rehydrate, liquid yeast do not. I feel like it would be a waste to do a starter with dry yeast.

Besides, dry yeast is so inexpensive that there is really no need to do a starter; for the price of the equivalent liquid yeast I can pitch a bunch more dry yeast.

Again, they both make great beer as long as you give them what they need.

Cheers!
Schoolmaster

 

[passedpawn]

I did a side-by-side in the following thread. The conclusion was inconclusive. Both were good, although they had differences that anyone could have picked out.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/lager-yeast-experiment-s-23-vs-wyeast-2124-a-183454/

 

[winvarin]

Very informative. Thanks passedpawn.

Do you have any experience with the Saflager W-34/70? I was considering using it for a Stella knock off for my wife. The description makes it sound like this yeast will leave the residual sweetness behind that you'd be looking for in a Stella-type lager.

Also, what temp did you mash at? I struggle with multiple temp rests in my cooler mash setup, so I usually count on the fact that malts are more modified these days and go for a single step. I was thinking a single sacc rest at 150-152F range, batch sparge, 90 min boil, then a fermentation schedule similar to what you describe in the other post.

As long as I am shooting multiple questions, what is your opinion on pitching temps with a lager. I see you used 70F on the beers in that post, but noted that you might have picked up some extra esters as a result. And there certainly are numerous people who advocate pitching in the 65-70F range and letting the yeast reach a vigorous fermentation before dropping into the 50s. Have you noticed a difference between that, and pitching at lower temps and just allowing the yeast to build more slowly?

If you do bring temps down before pitching, what's a good method? Are you ok to just seal the fermenter and place it in the fermenting fridge, then pitch yeast when you hit your desired pitching temp? Do you pitch straight away or rack the cooled beer off any trub/break to a clean fermenter before pitching (similar to what Jamil suggests in BCS?) And what about aeration? Would you do it before the refrigerated cooling period or would you cool it down in the fridge, then aerate before pitching?

 

[Malticulous]

I've made some good German lagers with Saflager 34/70. I has that malt forward German flavor.

I chill may wort down to about 10F hotter than my running water's temp and then put the fermenter into the cold chest freezer, set the temp controller to pitching temp and by the next morning it's ready to pitch the yeast. I have to do the same with ales in the summer.

 

[winvarin]

Thanks. How about aeration? Do you do it before the overnight chill or after?

 

[Malticulous]

I whip it with a spoon at pitching time, but that is another advantage of dry yeast; they really don't require aeration.