Kottbusser - A style deserving of revival!

[unionrdr]

Yeah. If I can get this primary into the 65-69F zone, the WL029 yeast is a very steady fermenter from my past experiences with it. But I have the feeling I'm going to have a lot of silty trub in this one. At one point during the chill, I noticed the color of the wort was a very light amber-orange. Time will tell...

 

[Barley_Bob]

Mine was green from all the hops, haha. With the hops settled out, it was more of a straw color. I think the calculator is expecting me to hit that SRM from the molasses and honey. We shall see.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah, I'm thinking the molasses & honey are definitely going to add a touch to the burnished gold sort of color I've been seeing. We'll find out next month... At the moment, it's bubbling in steady bursts.

 

[unionrdr]

Well, even though it's only 14F outside with the kerosine heater going, I managed to coax the fermenting beer up to 67F. It's going like machine pistol bursts finally. Just like old times. Took a while to build up some heat, starting @ 62.5F. I'm surprised WL029 even started slowly at that temp. I guess that narrow window got opened a bit wider?...

 

[myerstyson]

What "style" would you guys put this in in the Recipe database?

 

[unionrdr]

When I worked up an average of the recipes I/we found in BS2 I used the Specialty Beer category. But I have read that it was similar to a broyhan? Another said it was related to altbier?

 

[unionrdr]

Planning on it. Some already have. Mine just seems to have gotten through with initial fermentation this morning? It did get colder again with more snow though. It'll be near the end of next month before I'll be ready for final thoughts post though. Which will also be around my birthday! :rockin:

 

[myerstyson]

Planning on it. Some already have. Mine just seems to have gotten through with initial fermentation this morning? It did get colder again with more snow though. It'll be near the end of next month before I'll be ready for final thoughts post though. Which will also be around my birthday! :rockin:

I just pulled my brew log out because I was hoping I was remembering incorrectly. I knew that I bottled mine on 7 Feb, but had hoped that I had bottled it 2 or even 3 weeks prior because I WANT TO DRINK IT NOW. Sadly, I only bottled a week ago.

 

[unionrdr]

I hear ya! Mine's got a ways to go yet before I can even think about it. Weird part was how it looked going into the FV. Looked like gross sewer water. Like cold hot chocolate with a greenish cast to it from the hop debris. Funky looking trub to be sure. Don't remember ever seeing that in a light colored wort before? Gonna get some serious settling out in this one. Besides any cold break from topping it off from about 75F down to 62.5F. And I strained it into primary too...

 

[myerstyson]

I hear ya! Mine's got a ways to go yet before I can even think about it. Weird part was how it looked going into the FV. Looked like gross sewer water. Like cold hot chocolate with a greenish cast to it from the hop debris. Funky looking trub to be sure. Don't remember ever seeing that in a light colored wort before? Gonna get some serious settling out in this one. Besides any cold break from topping it off from about 75F down to 62.5F. And I strained it into primary too...

I had the same issue! Going into the fermenter I started to question my decision to brew this. Then when the krausen fell and I took the final gravity, I was so happy at the 3-4 SRM I saw in the glass.

 

[unionrdr]

Good to hear! I had the same thought pouring the chilled wort through the strainer. It's grrrrross! Now that it's past initial fermentation, a lot of it should be settling out. Can't wait till 10 days or so to see the 1st FG sample...not to mention, the results of 12ozs of flaked oats.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Mine was the same - incredibly cloudy and bright green from all the hops. It'll sort itself out, though.

The oats should be really interesting in a German ale. I've used them in both American and English pale ales with great success, however. So, I really think it'll turn out great here too.

 

[unionrdr]

Some say the beer was a little misty. I wonder if it's the oats? I used half a Whirlfloc tablet @ 15 minutes to aid in clarity. Since it passed initial fermentation this morning, I'm hoping it isn't too long before it's done. Then clean my 6G BB for secondary of the honey & molasses. The oats were to make it smoother mouth feel. Can't wait to see what that's like.

 

[unionrdr]

Well, it's been so darn cold most of the time here, it seemed to really slow down after initial fermentation finished. It warmed up overnight here to a balmy +15°F. It started bubbling a bit here & there with bits of bubbles stuck around the airlock centerpiece. So it's either off-gassing or finishing off the last few points. I'll find out this Saturday @ 10 days when I take a 1st FG sample. Can't wait to check that out!

 

[Barley_Bob]

I still need to add my honey and molasses. More than safe for me to do that now... So lazy. Also, I need to buy honey and molasses.

 

[unionrdr]

I've got unsulfured molasses & clover honey at the ready. But how to figure out how much they'll add to the gravity? BS2 gave me a 1.061 OG against the 1.054 OG I got going into primary. But adding the molasses & honey in secondary should raise it a few points. The question is, how much?

 

[Barley_Bob]

I just plugged it in as a normal addition. It should ferment out just the same as if it were added from the start. My calculator is giving me a difference of .003 on the OG... which sounds about right (4oz honey, 2oz molasses). It's probably comparable to table sugar in overall fermentability, and 6oz of table sugar is also coming out at .003. So, that's my guess. .001 OG per 2oz or slightly less.

 

[unionrdr]

Well, I'm using 1.3oz of honey & .6oz molasses. And getting an actual OG of 1.054, it seems they may only raise the gravity by .002, or 1.056? My mash was a bit thick. But I thought that might raise efficiency, not lower it? And in designing the recipe in BS2, I used the even 3lbs of the pilsner LME from the original 3.15lbs total in the jug. The remaining small amount was used in the starter for the yeast. Maybe if I'd bought some DME for the starter & added the entire 3.15lbs of LME, together with the small amounts of molasses & honey might've given the recipe's OG of 1.061?

 

[dkennedy]

Finally catching up, sounds like there is a ton of interest in this now!

I brewed this right before leaving the US for a month. Brew was a mess...burned grain bag (electric BIAB), volumes way low due to the 2 hour boil, and it looked....unpleasant, to say the least. I added 2 oz each of honey and molasses and kegged it, definitely should have scaled that back as it's a bit sweet for my taste. Before the additions, it had a nice straw-toned color and was a bit hoppy, now it's more of a straw color and sweeter, complexity from the honey and molasses is interesting. I'll grab a picture when I'm back home.

I'd do it again, might look to shorten the mash and boil from Mosher's recipe though. And re-jig to handle step mashes a bit easier (might actually do a true decoction).

 

[unionrdr]

I used lower amounts of molasses & honey when designing my recipe from a couple different ones in BS2. It's said to hint at sweetness with a very dry finish. The WL029 yeast will help with that aspect of it, besides giving that lager-like balance. We'll see next month?...

 

[bhchrist]

I fought the urge to increase the molasses and honey from the Zymurgy recipe and am glad I did. "Hint of sweetness" is spot on, as I think I finished around .009. I really wouldn't want more than what I have in mine. I added the sugars at flame out rather than post primary, but then I really don't like messing with my fermentation much once in is in the fridge other than controlling the temperature. Love what the WL029 did with this.

 

[unionrdr]

Good to hear! I had hopes that my educated guess would be a good one. But the tartness from the molasses combined with that hint of sweetness is part of various descriptions I've read, so i'm doing the molasses & honey in secondary soon. I think it may bring out a touch more of this sweet/tart/slightly sour part of some flavor descriptions?

 

[myerstyson]

Couldn't wait anymore. Had to try mine. Been 15 days in a 70F room.

Poured a lot darker than when I was bottling, now closer to 13/14 SRM. Honey is very pronounced. Still needs probably 2 weeks in the beer room for carbonation. Very happy with the result.

 

[unionrdr]

Nice color & clarity. I still have to take an FG on mine. Got sick yesterday & still getting over it.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Can someone remind me why we decided dark molasses was not the way to go? I have some unsulfured molasses in the cupboard, but I've been avoiding it because the community wisdom seemed to be that light was the best option.

 

[unionrdr]

Idk, they never said anything about light or dark in what I've read. Besides the fact that so little is used. I thought unsulfured would keep the flavor clean, since sulfur smells & the like are undesirable qualities in beer.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I could be misremembering, but it's kept me from wrapping this up with what I have on hand. In that case, I'll add those ingredients today.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Alright, I added my honey, molasses, and dry hop this afternoon and fermentation has already restarted.

As a side note, I recently discovered my municipal water changed and I haven't been hitting my mash pH. I drew a sample before I made those additions and it tastes somewhat astringent. That could be for a few reasons... It might just be green (etc), but I'm a little worried. Does anyone have some thoughts for me?

 

[unionrdr]

Maybe from the bit of acidulated ,alt(if you used any)? I used some in mine from the recipes I found. I have yet to take a sample though to see if mine has any. Although it could've been used to dry out the honey & molasses a bit?

 

[myerstyson]

I used dark molasses. Tastes wonderful!

 

[unionrdr]

I gotta get an FG sample of mine, now that I'm feeling a bit better. Darn intestinal flu. If all is well, I may even drain of a cup or two to mix the molasses & honey into thin it down. I'm using unsulfured dark molasses myself. Then just pour it all back into primary. Might help keep it dry versus secondary?

 

[unionrdr]

It's been 2 weeks today since brewday & it went into primary. My first FG is 1.014 out of OG 1.054 minus honey & molasses. Golden brown straw color & still very misty. Flavor is slightly sweet/tart. So I think maybe the tartness of the molasses might add to this? Also, it seems that with the honey & molasses, it gets it's burnished gold color. Looks like a pilsner color at the moment, if it were clear. Flavor is quite pleasant already, being so cold it ferments slowly. Current temp is between 62F & 63F with a tee shirt & crushed velvet smoking jacket covering it.

 

[bhchrist]

Current temp is between 62F & 63F with a tee shirt & crushed velvet smoking jacket covering it.

Would you describe it as being ensconced in velvet? Have you named your fermentor George?

 

[unionrdr]

The dog chewed up the black one, so I cover the fermenters with it. She my ho'...The blue & red ones are in the closet.

 

[raysmithtx]

I've had mine on the co2 for 2 weeks now. Has a nice flavor and a very crisp dry finish. You can taste just a hint of honey in the finish. Unlike all my other beers this one did not clear even though I used a fining agent.

This will be a great warm weather beer. My wife said this is the type of beer that could get you in trouble on a hot day.

Very pleased.

 

[bhchrist]

My friend and owner of an excellent Belgian Gastropub said this is a beer he would put on tap. We have a serious regular house tap on our hands with this beer. Love the Kotty.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah, so far it's shaping up to be quite the sessionable beer with that slight sweet-tart thing on the back. I think maybe that's what some mistake for slightly sour. Can't wait till it knocks off that last few points so I can add the honey & molasses.

 

[xjvhj]

I was just reading about this in Mosher's Radical Brewing. It looked interesting. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[bhchrist]

Many of us have already in the past few pages. Bottom line for me is it is quite an excellent beer that is highly drinkable but not boring. It is not dominated by one element and all the ingredients bring something important to the table. Good balance. Should be an excellent summer quencher and beer to drink with food, but I have enjoyed it greatly during this frigid WI winter all on its own. From the reactions of those who have tried it, it has enough going on to appeal to seasoned beer enthusiasts and be an excellent gateway beer as well.



This will be a regular house beer for me going forward.

 

[unionrdr]

I'm thinking it will be too! I can't wait till it's ready so we can trade some bottles to do some comparisons! Since it's warmer today, maybe it'll start finishing? Or maybe add the honey & molasses now to get it to?