Kottbusser - A style deserving of revival!

[bhchrist]

I get no sour note from the flavor. I can't imagine the Acid Malt at that level adds anything other than mash pH modification. I snapped some photos of my Kotty last night. No natural light, but it gives some idea. The head at pour from my tapper was at the rim. Reduced to half in about 3-4 minutes.

From using the Zymurgy recommended amount of honey, I am not sure that I would personally want any more flavor additions than what I have now. My current policy when I want to add MORE of something I like is to go base and then adjust next time. Not fun to overdo an ingredient and have 5 gallons to slog through (from past experiences).

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah, I was trying to imagine where that fella got the sour thing from listed in a link? I postulated some theories anyway. Dang computer weirdness took a couple hours I could've been brewing. Gotta get the mash water going now that it's fixed. Damn days shot already. But looking at my recipe in BS2, I now think I'll get that burnished gold color you have there. Maybe a slight amber blush, but we'll see. Gotta get this going.

 

[unionrdr]

******* ******* microsoft engineer from avast that was fixing my computer at the last minute erased BS2 & all my files! I had the grains crushed & everything! !@#$#%%$&(O&^%$#@!@$#$^%^* I NEED HEEEEEELP!!!*** got the main man at Beersmith to help. got it back. Lucky for that ****** engineer that, at the last second before signing off, erased BS2...******* ho.

 

[JPrather]

******* ******* microsoft engineer from avast that was fixing my computer at the last minute erased BS2 & all my files! I had the grains crushed & everything! !@#$#%%$&(O&^%$#@!@$#$^%^* I NEED HEEEEEELP!!!*** got the main man at Beersmith to help. got it back. Lucky for that ****** engineer that, at the last second before signing off, erased BS2...******* ho.

Whoops. Sounds like you got them all back though, unless I'm reading it wrong. Brew that baby up!

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah, the Beersmith owner/originator is a cool guy. Got it all back. Good thing that "engineer wasn't too thorough. Got everything back out this morning to warm up again. Crushed grains sealed in bucket. Gonna try this again in a lil while.

 

[unionrdr]

I'm heating 2 1/4 gallons of spring water for the mash now. Going for 153F. BS2 says 152.1F mash temp. So 153 will be close enough, since temp will undoubtedly drop during the 1 hour mash. * Mashed in @ 154F with the 7 1/2lbs of grains in 2 1/4G of spring water. I think with so much grain in there, the temp might stabilize @ 153F. BS2 said 152.1, so pretty close.

 

[unionrdr]

Mash started about 153F, ended an hour later @ 149F. Sparged/stirred 10 minutes @ 168F in 1 1/4G spring water. Only got about 1/2 gallon hot break this time, but lasted about a minute into the boil. .65oz Magnum added for bittering & 12:32PM. Half Whirlfloc tablet @ 15 minutes, Hallertau & Czech saaz @ 3 mins left. 2:46PM, cleaning the shorty fermenter juan more time, since it was merely rinsed last time & spigot getting cleaned & sanitized anyway. Wort chilled & ready. Just decant starter, stir & pitch. Then it's time for a beer! Looks like my time will be about 4 1/2 hours today. Not too shabby for an old fart...
Got an OG of 1.054 against estimate of 1.061. Maybe didn't stir it enough? My efficiency is usually through the roof. But this way, it is a bit closer to the original. Close enough.

 

[myerstyson]

Got an OG of 1.054 against estimate of 1.061. Maybe didn't stir it enough? My efficiency is usually through the roof. But this way, it is a bit closer to the original. Close enough.

I also got a different OG (1.042) vs the estimate in the Zym article. Worried me at first, but now, after tasting the (final) gravity sample last week, I am not worried. I can't wait till I can taste it!

 

[unionrdr]

You should've seen this stuff after being strained into the fermenter last evening! Looked like cold hot cocoa. Something to do with the oats I think? I was also very concerned about the WL029 yeast being half frozen by the time all the ingredients got delivered. I guess the 800mL starter-well, actually more like 850+-definitely helped matters in that department. I decanted it down to about 200mL for pitching. By 7:21 this morning, it started bubbling slowly after covering it with a tee shirt a bit earlier. It's currently at a solid 64F, one degree below the stated sweet spot.

 

[Barley_Bob]

I just got home from a conference yesterday, so I missed three days of fermentation. I checked the bucket last night, and there is not a huge blow-off mess everywhere. What a relief! But it seems like everything took care of itself while I was out of time. My kottbusser is growing up.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah. If I can get this primary into the 65-69F zone, the WL029 yeast is a very steady fermenter from my past experiences with it. But I have the feeling I'm going to have a lot of silty trub in this one. At one point during the chill, I noticed the color of the wort was a very light amber-orange. Time will tell...

 

[Barley_Bob]

Mine was green from all the hops, haha. With the hops settled out, it was more of a straw color. I think the calculator is expecting me to hit that SRM from the molasses and honey. We shall see.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah, I'm thinking the molasses & honey are definitely going to add a touch to the burnished gold sort of color I've been seeing. We'll find out next month... At the moment, it's bubbling in steady bursts.

 

[unionrdr]

Well, even though it's only 14F outside with the kerosine heater going, I managed to coax the fermenting beer up to 67F. It's going like machine pistol bursts finally. Just like old times. Took a while to build up some heat, starting @ 62.5F. I'm surprised WL029 even started slowly at that temp. I guess that narrow window got opened a bit wider?...

 

[myerstyson]

What "style" would you guys put this in in the Recipe database?

 

[unionrdr]

When I worked up an average of the recipes I/we found in BS2 I used the Specialty Beer category. But I have read that it was similar to a broyhan? Another said it was related to altbier?

 

[unionrdr]

Planning on it. Some already have. Mine just seems to have gotten through with initial fermentation this morning? It did get colder again with more snow though. It'll be near the end of next month before I'll be ready for final thoughts post though. Which will also be around my birthday! :rockin:

 

[myerstyson]

Planning on it. Some already have. Mine just seems to have gotten through with initial fermentation this morning? It did get colder again with more snow though. It'll be near the end of next month before I'll be ready for final thoughts post though. Which will also be around my birthday! :rockin:

I just pulled my brew log out because I was hoping I was remembering incorrectly. I knew that I bottled mine on 7 Feb, but had hoped that I had bottled it 2 or even 3 weeks prior because I WANT TO DRINK IT NOW. Sadly, I only bottled a week ago.

 

[unionrdr]

I hear ya! Mine's got a ways to go yet before I can even think about it. Weird part was how it looked going into the FV. Looked like gross sewer water. Like cold hot chocolate with a greenish cast to it from the hop debris. Funky looking trub to be sure. Don't remember ever seeing that in a light colored wort before? Gonna get some serious settling out in this one. Besides any cold break from topping it off from about 75F down to 62.5F. And I strained it into primary too...

 

[myerstyson]

I hear ya! Mine's got a ways to go yet before I can even think about it. Weird part was how it looked going into the FV. Looked like gross sewer water. Like cold hot chocolate with a greenish cast to it from the hop debris. Funky looking trub to be sure. Don't remember ever seeing that in a light colored wort before? Gonna get some serious settling out in this one. Besides any cold break from topping it off from about 75F down to 62.5F. And I strained it into primary too...

I had the same issue! Going into the fermenter I started to question my decision to brew this. Then when the krausen fell and I took the final gravity, I was so happy at the 3-4 SRM I saw in the glass.

 

[unionrdr]

Good to hear! I had the same thought pouring the chilled wort through the strainer. It's grrrrross! Now that it's past initial fermentation, a lot of it should be settling out. Can't wait till 10 days or so to see the 1st FG sample...not to mention, the results of 12ozs of flaked oats.

 

[Barley_Bob]

Mine was the same - incredibly cloudy and bright green from all the hops. It'll sort itself out, though.

The oats should be really interesting in a German ale. I've used them in both American and English pale ales with great success, however. So, I really think it'll turn out great here too.

 

[unionrdr]

Some say the beer was a little misty. I wonder if it's the oats? I used half a Whirlfloc tablet @ 15 minutes to aid in clarity. Since it passed initial fermentation this morning, I'm hoping it isn't too long before it's done. Then clean my 6G BB for secondary of the honey & molasses. The oats were to make it smoother mouth feel. Can't wait to see what that's like.

 

[unionrdr]

Well, it's been so darn cold most of the time here, it seemed to really slow down after initial fermentation finished. It warmed up overnight here to a balmy +15°F. It started bubbling a bit here & there with bits of bubbles stuck around the airlock centerpiece. So it's either off-gassing or finishing off the last few points. I'll find out this Saturday @ 10 days when I take a 1st FG sample. Can't wait to check that out!

 

[Barley_Bob]

I still need to add my honey and molasses. More than safe for me to do that now... So lazy. Also, I need to buy honey and molasses.

 

[unionrdr]

I've got unsulfured molasses & clover honey at the ready. But how to figure out how much they'll add to the gravity? BS2 gave me a 1.061 OG against the 1.054 OG I got going into primary. But adding the molasses & honey in secondary should raise it a few points. The question is, how much?

 

[Barley_Bob]

I just plugged it in as a normal addition. It should ferment out just the same as if it were added from the start. My calculator is giving me a difference of .003 on the OG... which sounds about right (4oz honey, 2oz molasses). It's probably comparable to table sugar in overall fermentability, and 6oz of table sugar is also coming out at .003. So, that's my guess. .001 OG per 2oz or slightly less.

 

[unionrdr]

Well, I'm using 1.3oz of honey & .6oz molasses. And getting an actual OG of 1.054, it seems they may only raise the gravity by .002, or 1.056? My mash was a bit thick. But I thought that might raise efficiency, not lower it? And in designing the recipe in BS2, I used the even 3lbs of the pilsner LME from the original 3.15lbs total in the jug. The remaining small amount was used in the starter for the yeast. Maybe if I'd bought some DME for the starter & added the entire 3.15lbs of LME, together with the small amounts of molasses & honey might've given the recipe's OG of 1.061?

 

[dkennedy]

Finally catching up, sounds like there is a ton of interest in this now!

I brewed this right before leaving the US for a month. Brew was a mess...burned grain bag (electric BIAB), volumes way low due to the 2 hour boil, and it looked....unpleasant, to say the least. I added 2 oz each of honey and molasses and kegged it, definitely should have scaled that back as it's a bit sweet for my taste. Before the additions, it had a nice straw-toned color and was a bit hoppy, now it's more of a straw color and sweeter, complexity from the honey and molasses is interesting. I'll grab a picture when I'm back home.

I'd do it again, might look to shorten the mash and boil from Mosher's recipe though. And re-jig to handle step mashes a bit easier (might actually do a true decoction).

 

[unionrdr]

I used lower amounts of molasses & honey when designing my recipe from a couple different ones in BS2. It's said to hint at sweetness with a very dry finish. The WL029 yeast will help with that aspect of it, besides giving that lager-like balance. We'll see next month?...