Historical Beer: Kentucky Common "Kiss Yer Cousin" Rye Kentucky Common Ale

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Revvy said:
Anything made of corn other than flaked maize CAN be used, BUT in order to do it you have to do a cereal mash to render it fermentable... The "flaking" of the maize achieves the same thing... you CAN use unsugared cornflakes or tortilla chips (baked is preferable but I've used "fried" as well in cream ales, in the mash tun the other grain absorbs the grease from the chips) in the mash tun just like flaked maize without doing a cereal mash.

I THINK, that instant polenta doesn't require it either, I think the "instant" processing pre-gelatinizes it as well, but don't quote me on that. I know someone used popped popcorn for a cream ale as well on here years ago, but I can't recall if he did a cereal mash or if popping rendered it usable as well.

Anything else, cram corn, non instant grits, cornflower, ground popcorn kernals, non instant cornmeal can all be used, and has been, but you need to do the cereal mash first....


Cereal mashing is not hard to do, but it requires an extra step... BYO has a great article.

I just brewed this on Saturday, using Saflager again and making this a steam beer.
Click to expand...


Based on reading from here, instant grits are pre gelatinized which is why I used them on a few beers. I have done a couple half corn recipes with them and got the gravity readings I was after on both sides of fermentation so I am going to say they work. I have never done comparison batches with anything to know about flavor difference, but as far as instant grits working by just throwing them in the mash.... They work just like flaked maize pound for pound on the numbers. They honestly are not any cheaper though... Just available at the grocery store!
 
PatrickGoss said:
Based on reading from here, instant grits are pre gelatinized which is why I used them on a few beers. I have done a couple half corn recipes with them and got the gravity readings I was after on both sides of fermentation so I am going to say they work. I have never done comparison batches with anything to know about flavor difference, but as far as instant grits working by just throwing them in the mash.... They work just like flaked maize pound for pound on the numbers. They honestly are not any cheaper though... Just available at the grocery store!
Click to expand...

Yeah, thanks. I actually made shrimp and grits the other night with instant polenta (I know) imported from Poland (I shop at a great Polish market in my neighborhood) and they came together in 3 minutes and I totally realized I "gelatinous" they were.

Think I might do something with them over the holidays.
:mug:
 
Revvy, this looks great. Recently I have been brewing a slightly hoppy cream ale using Fantasia and Ella hops then fermenting at 66 with WPL 080 (Ale and Lager Blend). I'll definitely give it a go swapping out some 2-row for rye, c120, and black patent.
 
I haven't brewed this yet, but I keep coming back to it because
  1. I'm trying to adjust my brewing to use the local water (very high carbonate) with no treatment other than dechlorinating -- instead of running to the store to buy RO water all the time.
  2. I need to start brewing lighter beers; I don't need all the calories from pint after pint of 6% ABV brews. And I don't really want to drink stouts and porters in the summer.

From what I've read on this style, the whole point of the dark crystal and black malts was to deal with the their hard water. Just like me. :)

Thanks for posting this.
 
Well almost a year ago now I brewed this as my first experimental sour beer after reading American Sour Beers. I followed the recipe exactly but I pitched WLP670 American farmhouse blend with the Safale us05 in the primary. One month in racked to secondary with a handful of Jack Daniels oak barrel chips. Aged for 9 months and bottle conditioned for a further 2 months. Finished at 1.009. All the hop bitterness has faded but the dryness brought out the bitter/slightly harsh flavours in the roasted malts. Has a bit of funk at first than you start tasting the oak and the JD. The finish is where you get the dry bitter flavour I referred to. Overall a very drinkable beer and was well worth the wait. I will be aging some bottles to try again this time next year. I was really hoping for a sour beer but its a prettly clean beer with a hint of funk. Next batch I try will be a sour mash and ferment with us05.

View attachment 1450741509848.jpg
 
In the original post, the Color is 11 but the picture comes out much darker than that. I'm halfway through the mash now and it's definitely not going to be as dark as Revvy's picture with just 2oz black patent and 2oz dark crystal.
 
Arrheinous said:
In the original post, the Color is 11 but the picture comes out much darker than that. I'm halfway through the mash now and it's definitely not going to be as dark as Revvy's picture with just 2oz black patent and 2oz dark crystal.
Click to expand...

I think I read somewhere in the thread that the picture is misleading. (poor lighting, poor camera, something like that)
 
Arrheinous said:
In the original post, the Color is 11 but the picture comes out much darker than that. I'm halfway through the mash now and it's definitely not going to be as dark as Revvy's picture with just 2oz black patent and 2oz dark crystal.
Click to expand...


Mine had a very dark color but light came through it really well... Aesthetically it was likely the coolest looking brew I have made. I need a keg of this brew again.... And again.
 
PatrickGoss said:
Mine had a very dark color but light came through it really well... Aesthetically it was likely the coolest looking brew I have made. I need a keg of this brew again.... And again.
Click to expand...

I ended up going with 4oz of blackprinz that I had on hand. According to Beersmith that puts it at 16 SRM and it's sort of a dark copper color. Blackprinz is still 500L but maybe the black patent adds a little something extra to the hue.

Pretty much subbed out all the malts for Euro malts (Vienna, malted rye, Special B) too since I wasn't super prepared to brew it up. Going to use WLP005 at 60F.
 
My attempt at this has now carbonated. I found some suspicious looking white floating matter in the fermenter before racking to bottle. I tried to leave that behind, but I feared an infection.

Taste has been interesting. It's definitely not sour, so if it is infected I can't detect it right now. I shared a bottle at the weekend, and both of us detected a fair bit of liquorish, which was unexpected. It wasn't unpleasant, but I would have preferred it without. I wondered if this was the result of too hot fermentation.

Opened another bottle last night, no liquorish at all. It was very enjoyable.

@damlamb, I'm intrigued by the notion of sour-mashing this. Please let us know how that goes.

When I tried to make this the LHBS didn't stock half the ingredients I needed, and I ended up using polenta in place of maize. Won't ever be trying that again, what a mess. Seriously stuck sparge too.
 
At the risk of this veering off into a different discussion about what would ultimately be a different beer, here's an idea I had. I have only made this once, but loved it, and it was really popular among my friends. I hadn't had very much of it before the idea struck to try it with a Saison yeast. In my mind it would make a fantastic dark amber farmhouse ale. Does anyone think I'm onto something? Or crazy?

I know, I know.... Just try it, right?
:mug:
 
Bacon488 said:
At the risk of this veering off into a different discussion about what would ultimately be a different beer, here's an idea I had. I have only made this once, but loved it, and it was really popular among my friends. I hadn't had very much of it before the idea struck to try it with a Saison yeast. In my mind it would make a fantastic dark amber farmhouse ale. Does anyone think I'm onto something? Or crazy?

I know, I know.... Just try it, right?
:mug:
Click to expand...

I have had the same though! I say give it a go and let us know
 
Bacon488 said:
At the risk of this veering off into a different discussion about what would ultimately be a different beer, here's an idea I had. I have only made this once, but loved it, and it was really popular among my friends. I hadn't had very much of it before the idea struck to try it with a Saison yeast. In my mind it would make a fantastic dark amber farmhouse ale. Does anyone think I'm onto something? Or crazy?

I know, I know.... Just try it, right?
:mug:
Click to expand...

With a small beer like this and the flaked maize it might come out a bit thin with a saison yeast going as low as 1.002 or so. The rye could help compensate with added viscosity.

If you look at the moonshiner story behind Kentucky common then I doubt they had the best temperature control or sanitation so maybe the final product had a bit of farmhouse character to it after all.
 
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1452951065.106202.jpg

Brewed this three weeks ago and tapped the keg on Wednesday. Great beer, flavor is incredible considering malt is only around 60% of the mash. Fermented steam-beer style with S-23 and used grits in place of the flaked corn. They were "quick grits" - no cereal mash just cooked and added to the mash. OG 1.043 FG 1.006
 
Tamarlane said:
View attachment 330464

Brewed this three weeks ago and tapped the keg on Wednesday. Great beer, flavor is incredible considering malt is only around 60% of the mash. Fermented steam-beer style with S-23 and used grits in place of the flaked corn. They were "quick grits" - no cereal mash just cooked and added to the mash. OG 1.043 FG 1.006
Click to expand...

I just put on an s-23 steam beer version of this last week myself. Tastes awesome! :mug:
 
Just started drinking on this one yesterday. Great beer! My compliments to you Revvy! Made mine per your original post with US05 and love the results.
 
Tamarlane said:
View attachment 330464

Brewed this three weeks ago and tapped the keg on Wednesday. Great beer, flavor is incredible considering malt is only around 60% of the mash. Fermented steam-beer style with S-23 and used grits in place of the flaked corn. They were "quick grits" - no cereal mash just cooked and added to the mash. OG 1.043 FG 1.006
Click to expand...

I've only made this as a steam beer and it is so good I can't bring myself to switch it up. Been using the wlp sf lager yeast.
 
wallybangbang said:
I've only made this as a steam beer and it is so good I can't bring myself to switch it up. Been using the wlp sf lager yeast.
Click to expand...

I know, I'm actually really enjoying it as a steam beer right now. In fact I have that, a brown ale and an IPA (with citra hops in my randall right now) and I worried at first with that and a brown on it would be "boring" but I'm equally enjoying the distinctiveness of all 3 beers. I ended last night with this and it was perfect.
 
Made this on Saturday. Came out with slightly less than figured but split the 4.75 gallons between two three gallon carboy's. One in a controlled FC at 67F and US-05. The other in a wood box with a heater,it's cold around here, and an ambient air of about 64 with S-23.

I'll see how the two compare.
 
I forgot to come back and post the results. Sorry.

On derby day I had quite a few people over. The original recipe was a hit. It was very tasty and very good going down.
The Steamed version on the other hand had an off flavor which I will say is cardboard. Many tried it but I don't think they came back for more. Sounds like oxidation but each were handled the same other than the lager yeast at room temperature. Probably something I did but I've never had this flavor in any beer I've ever made.

I'll be brewing the original version, possible next weekend, but they kicked three kegs on me and I have to get my other stocks back up.

It's funny but the ones drinking the cream of three crops when it kicked moved right over to this and never missed a beat.
 
Revy,

Since I'm a little of a history buff this beer fascinates me.

Did a little research on the internet today while ordering grain and such for this beer and I'm going to switch it up and use six row. From what I have read this was most likely the grain that was used at the time. What do you think Revy? I thought it had been discussed in this thread but I couldn't find it. There is much discussion around the internet about 6 row in pre prohibition beers. This will be the first tweak.

2nd- I, like you said in your original post Revy have to imagine that shiners ran off some sour mash and made a drinkable beer out of it. After seeing how the six row tastes I will sour mash a batch and give it a go. I actually had a god discussion with my grandfather about homebrew in his time (he is 91 and moved from NE Texas to California at 19) while he was drinking one of mine. While he is not a beer guy or homebrewer he talked about how in his younger days in depression area Texas people basically made all there own stuff, including beer, wine and of course the shiners making whiskey. He talked about how the shiners were the ones who also made a lot of beer, usually to drink while they made whiskey(LOL). He described some of these beers being "not very good" but didn't elaborate much. I asked if they were sour and he said that might be a good way to describe them. While I agree with your research( and mine also),I don't think that most commercial versions of KC were soured, I just cant help the urge of trying a version of this like the homebrewers of the era made it. Maybe with controlled souring I can make it taste a lot better than the sour mash and wild yeast beers of my Grandfathers area. Worth a try. I will come back and post results in a few months. Lots of beers to brew and so little time!
 
Brewed this with the six row and WLP SF lager yeast and just got carbed enough today to taste it. Very good, not much different than the 2 row version. Seems to be a great beer no matter what.
 
Just brewed up a batch of the original recipe this morning. This is my first time brewing this beer. Also my first time using rye. Coincidentally I ended up with my best efficiency yet on this brew session. It was an all round good brew day. I'm excited to see how this tastes, having never drank a Kentucky Common before.
 
Well, I just threw my first batch of the Cousin in the keg tonight. I'm very surprised how light this beer turned out in both colour and body. Definitely looking forward to seeing how much the carbonation boosts the body.

What kind of volumes of CO2 are you folks drinking this at? I'm figuring I'll just go with 2.5 this time around as that is about where I like my california commons.
 
-DELETED-MEMBER- said:
Well, I just threw my first batch of the Cousin in the keg tonight. I'm very surprised how light this beer turned out in both colour and body. Definitely looking forward to seeing how much the carbonation boosts the body.

What kind of volumes of CO2 are you folks drinking this at? I'm figuring I'll just go with 2.5 this time around as that is about where I like my california commons.
Click to expand...

I know I mentioned in the first post that when I bottle primed I used table instead of corn sugar, to be more historically accurate- And I looked at my beersmith which has probably been more recent, and I think it's when I tried to naturally keg carb it with cask and bottle conditioning yeast, and I have it listed as 2.3 volumes, I think I was trying to split the difference between 2 and 2.5 volumes. My notes aren't that clear.

The body is thin, because in a sense it's really nothing more than a dark cream ale in many ways.

Hope you like it.
 
Well, this a great beer. It is lightly sweet and bit crisp on the tongue. I fermented this with lager yeast at about 60*F. Tasting this blind I would swear it was done with an ale yeast, though.

Thanks for the great recipe. This one definitely be a rebrew.
 
Finally getting around to brewing this tomorrow. I first subscribed to the thread in 2012. Bought the specialty grains on this past Black Friday. They're now milled with the base grain, in the tun, and ready to dough-in first thing in the morning. A few adjustments:
Opted for chocolate rye for the roasted malt. I had sacks of Belgian Pils or Maris Otter to choose for the base. I intended to use the pils, but milled the MO before I realized what I was doing. Oh well. More character.

Looking forward to it.
 
I've given this a try, using lager malt as base, but really wanted to try an "off style" sour mash so mashed this recipe for 40 hours, forgot to check the Ph, but it tasted sweet sour, i'll feedback and probably brew the same again without the sour mash to get a comparison!!

really looking forward to it based on how the wort tasted.
 
Just finished brewing up my second attempt at this one. I subbed Galena hops for the Cluster, and used 100% 6-row rather than splitting with 2-row.

If this turns out as good as the first time around I'll be thrilled. Great recipe Revvy!:tank:
 
Update: The galena hops smoothed the beer out quite a bit, made it even more drinkable. I took a 6er to a family bbq today, was a big hit with the in-laws.

I'm thinking about making this as a lager.

20170528_191749_HDR.jpg
 
Devon said:
Just finished brewing up my second attempt at this one. I subbed Galena hops for the Cluster, and used 100% 6-row rather than splitting with 2-row.

If this turns out as good as the first time around I'll be thrilled. Great recipe Revvy!:tank:
Click to expand...

Because you mentioned 6-row weeks ago I did 10 gallons of this with it on national homebrewday, 5 for me and 5 for a friend's wedding in July. I'm going to nat carb his in the keg with CBC-1 yeast and table sugar.

I'm racking my 5 gallons into a keg right now to force carb it.
 
So I've brewed this before using ingredients from my lhbs in San Diego, using a recipe from Brew Your Own mag and it came out amazing. Attempted to recreate buying ingredients from my new lhbs in Washington, but their flaked corn was about 1/2 powder instead of full flakes like my previous attempt. So far, no length of cold crashing or amount of straining has dissipated the corn dust and unlike my first attempt, this one is notably sour. Any thoughts on how to trouble shoot at this point? Have you made soured KCs before? Am i just gonna have to drink 5 gallons of sub standard beer?
 
My friend who asked me to brew this for his wedding informed me that he wants to serve it through a beer engine. I had already planned to nat carb it in the keg, so this is doubly exciting.
 
Brewing this today. 10 gallons. 1/2 with us05 half with w34/70. Plan to ferment both at 62 degrees
 
After a few weeks in the keg I'm leaning toward the us05 version...but as this beer was ment to be drank fresh..like as in as fresh as we drink our NEIPAs these days... the w34/70 is better and more true to style IMO
 

Similar threads

delcosansgluten
Kentucky Common Ale
Replies
24
Views
2K
delcosansgluten
delcosansgluten
G
Reusing a wild culture
Replies
6
Views
843
McMullan
McMullan
scrap iron
Rye
Replies
12
Views
1K
VirginiaHops1
V
Daves Hopfenstube
Servus from Germany!
Replies
4
Views
174
ncbrewer
N
F
i dont brew to style
2
Replies
52
Views
2K
Danny Wallace
Danny Wallace
Brewer's Friend 300

Latest posts

Back
Top