keggle rust problem

[MrStrangeBrew]

I had some kegs cut by a buddy of mine with a plasma cutter a couple weeks ago. I didn't put water in em, and had cleaned them out and removed the spears prior to http://www.cadreon.com/his cutting. When I picked them up, the inside looks like the cloud of smoke from the gas coated much of the interior of the keg. I am just getting around to them, so they've had a couple weeks to let it sit on there...

With tiny slag particles attached to the side. Last night I used some bar keepers friend and a scotchpad, to minor success. THe inside is still discolored. The couplings haven't been welded, but I drilled the holes, and I got the keg to hot, I can see that color distortion in it now. I plan to scrub some more with Barkeepers Friend, and grind a bit if I need to, hopefully I can get it back to brewing shape. I should have taken a picture- I'll do that, I'd appreciate an opinion.....

heres what i got goin on. sounds like you got the same problem.

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[GrandRiverZip]

Yup yup, very similar, yours are a bit worse than mine, but same issue. If ya learn any tricks, let me know! Hope they are salvageable!

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

Yup yup, very similar, yours are a bit worse than mine, but same issue. If ya learn any tricks, let me know! Hope they are salvageable!

mine look worse!!!! holy crap im gonna scrub a little now while im at work. (dont tell my boss) ill put the new pic up in a little bit and let u know how it came out. and ill let u know what i did. got a bunch of equipment at y disposal here at work so i mite try a few different things.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

Yup yup, very similar, yours are a bit worse than mine, but same issue. If ya learn any tricks, let me know! Hope they are salvageable!

very salvageable!!! BKF and scotch pads worked great. not sure if you can see in pic but still got somelittle bits of slag stuck mostly at the bottom. hopefully just needs a little sandpaper. any ideas on what brand? type? grit? i should be using? i dont wana do any more damage. ( i hope my boss doesnt ask why there is soapy water all over the bay )

 

[RonRock]

I'd guess that most of that will come of easily with a hot soak with oxyclean. Then scrub with a scotchbrite while draining. The brown or red stuff is mostly smoke. The slag is another thing, it may take some work. But I'd get the easy part first, may knock loose some of the slag.

Next time fill the keg with water before cutting.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

I'd guess that most of that will come of easily with a hot soak with oxyclean. Then scrub with a scotchbrite while draining. The brown or red stuff is mostly smoke. The slag is another thing, it may take some work. But I'd get the easy part first, may knock loose some of the slag.

Next time fill the keg with water before cutting.

ya i got all the rust off with bar keepers friends and scotch brite looks real good and now just a few pieces of slag remain. is it safe to use sandpaper on inside? if so what kind? grit? brand?

 

[dmfa200]

The larger pieces of slag can usually be scraped of with a chisel.
Just use it like a scraper.
An actual paint scraper or the like doesn't have enough mass to knock the BB's of slag loose.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

i have these that attach to my pneumatic die grinder. would this be something that i could use on inside? will i need something more coarse? i have green ones that are basically sandpaper not sure what grit. 3M makes them called Roloc discs.

 

[dmfa200]

Those disks work great, and there not too aggressive, which a good thing.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

Those disks work great, and there not too aggressive, which a good thing.

so that would be safe for inside? also i have these chisels and scraper not sure if they would be too crazy. and i thought i wasnt supposed to use metal on metal or it will rust?

 

[rambler]

I have learned that if /when you do need to grind on stainless to use a Type27 cutoff/grinding wheel. These will not embed the stainles with any ferrous metals so no rust. As long as you dont get it too hot while grinding you dont have to worry about messing up the alloy. Just look at the grinding wheels when you buy them and if they say T27 your good to go.

 

[Will319]

I cleaned up a sloppy job on a keggle I did while in haste in college with a plasma cutter at work. While that was sloppy too I cleaned it up with a 4" grinding wheel and finished it off with a aluminum braided wire wheel and then a sand or scotch grinding pad. No slag anymore and no rust issues due to cutting, it looks scored/sanded but thats just details.

 

[mmurray]

i have these that attach to my pneumatic die grinder. would this be something that i could use on inside? will i need something more coarse? i have green ones that are basically sandpaper not sure what grit. 3M makes them called Roloc discs.

This is what you need for the little bit of slag on the bottom! Don't use the chisels you posted as you don't want to leave any material behind. Those disks on a pneumatic die grinder will do the trick. That's what I used from Coarse to extra fine after I used the flapper wheel... but mine was worse than those pictured!

Becuase, mine were cut and then sat in a machine shop for 6 months... and used as tables for cutting other material and that slag fell in as well! It was hell!!!

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

This is what you need for the little bit of slag on the bottom! Don't use the chisels you posted as you don't want to leave any material behind. Those disks on a pneumatic die grinder will do the trick. That's what I used from Coarse to extra fine after I used the flapper wheel... but mine was worse than those pictured!

Becuase, mine were cut and then sat in a machine shop for 6 months... and used as tables for cutting other material and that slag fell in as well! It was hell!!!

well i pretty much got it all but these tiny little bits feels like one grain of sand here and there on the bottom. went over them a bunch of times with those pads and scrubbed with scotch brite and then used the pads again etc. and the little bastards are still kinda there. can i use these pads? or are they too intense?

and oh yeah there were some big pieces that i did use a chisel on. not with a hammer just holding it with my hand and gently tapped the edge. actually came off pretty easy. i cleaned chisel before use. you think ill be ok?

 

[mmurray]

well i pretty much got it all but these tiny little bits feels like one grain of sand here and there on the bottom. went over them a bunch of times with those pads and scrubbed with scotch brite and then used the pads again etc. and the little bastards are still kinda there. can i use these pads? or are they too intense?

and oh yeah there were some big pieces that i did use a chisel on. not with a hammer just holding it with my hand and gently tapped the edge. actually came off pretty easy. i cleaned chisel before use. you think ill be ok?

As for the chisel. as long as you didn't gouge the SS you should be fine. SS is just soft and other metals can embed easily.

Those sanding discs are fine... I'd just make sure and use the finest grit you can find (probably 120) and use a new one. Also make sure and use light pressure and go a little at a time because they will take some metal away. Then go back over it with the scuffing disks to smooth everything back out.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

As for the chisel. as long as you didn't gouge the SS you should be fine. SS is just soft and other metals can embed easily.

Those sanding discs are fine... I'd just make sure and use the finest grit you can find (probably 120) and use a new one. Also make sure and use light pressure and go a little at a time because they will take some metal away. Then go back over it with the scuffing disks to smooth everything back out.

thats the only type of disc i have on hand now plus the scuffing discs. You think the green one looks too coarse? not sure what grit it is. i mean if this slag isnt coming off with scuffing pads and scotch pads do i really need to worry about it affecting my brew? i mean obviously ill do w.e. i have to but i dont want to be killing myself for no reason.

 

[mmurray]

I think the green is 80 grit. I say give it a try on the outside of the keg (maybe on the bottom or something) or on the scrap top that was cut off if you have it... if it looks too aggressive then don't use it, if not then go for it.

 

[mistercameron]

I have some decommissioned kegs "on order" from a local brewery. Given what you guys have experienced with plasma cutting and the cleanup, would you still go with a plasma cutter, or go for an angle grinder on a jig?

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

I have some decommissioned kegs "on order" from a local brewery. Given what you guys have experienced with plasma cutting and the cleanup, would you still go with a plasma cutter, or go for an angle grinder on a jig?

i would love to go back in time and erase any knowledge of plasma cutting out of my memory. i dont even think you need a jig just go lightly around it in a circle slowly and go over it a few time and you will get a nice clean cut with no friggin SLAG !!!! if i had water at the bottom when it was cut it probably wouldnt have been as bad but it was still alll over the side of my keg too. i would not recommend plasma cutting. but i guess if you do everything right it might be ok but ill never know. unless i blow these 2 up because im sick of cleaning up my mistakes.

 

[dmfa200]

well i pretty much got it all but these tiny little bits feels like one grain of sand here and there on the bottom. went over them a bunch of times with those pads and scrubbed with scotch brite and then used the pads again etc. and the little bastards are still kinda there. can i use these pads? or are they too intense?

and oh yeah there were some big pieces that i did use a chisel on. not with a hammer just holding it with my hand and gently tapped the edge. actually came off pretty easy. i cleaned chisel before use. you think ill be ok?

Yeah, you'll be fine as long as you don't go nuts and leave gouges in the keg.

Even if you were to see signs of rust it does not mean that you've ruined your keg.

Those Roloc disks will clean up rust.

If you were to see rusting on stainless, sanding it off as you spot it, will eventually get rid of it. Just always use clean abrasives.

It kills me how a lot of people freak out about rust on stainless like it's some kind of terminal disease.

 

[RonRock]

I have some decommissioned kegs "on order" from a local brewery. Given what you guys have experienced with plasma cutting and the cleanup, would you still go with a plasma cutter, or go for an angle grinder on a jig?

I've done 6 kegs with my plasma cutter. Never any trouble with slag. I'm real surprised at the trouble MrStrangeBrew has had. Even a bit of slag normally knocks right off.

I would say be sure to fill the keg with water, plasma cut it. Maybe clean up the cut with a grinder, then hot soak with Oxyclean and a quick scrub with Scotchbrite, done.

The round grind stones work very well on edges. Not the disks, they will catch on the edge and are harder to control.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

I've done 6 kegs with my plasma cutter. Never any trouble with slag. I'm real surprised at the trouble MrStrangeBrew has had. Even a bit of slag normally knocks right off.

I would say be sure to fill the keg with water, plasma cut it. Maybe clean up the cut with a grinder, then hot soak with Oxyclean and a quick scrub with Scotchbrite, done.

The round grind stones work very well on edges. Not the disks, they will catch on the edge and are harder to control.

i figured it was just my luck. thanks for confirming that.

 

[RonRock]

I really hope you can get your keg cleaned up. I'm sure you will, just try not to grind or gouge too deep. It will all work out, just takes a bit more effort than it will on the next one.

Been there, Done that. Many times on many different projects. It's how I learn. I have to Foul (trying to be PC) the first one up, then the next one is better.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

I really hope you can get your keg cleaned up. I'm sure you will, just try not to grind or gouge too deep. It will all work out, just takes a bit more effort than it will on the next one.

Been there, Done that. Many times on many different projects. It's how I learn. I have to Foul (trying to be PC) the first one up, then the next one is better.

yeah i hear ya. im gonna start goin at it with those green pads in a bit then ill smooth it out with the brown scuffing discs and then give it another soak in bar keepers friend and go at it with scotch brite pad. got two of them to do too. oh well like u said its all about learning. you think oxyclean is better then BKF for something like this?

 

[GrandRiverZip]

Ron Rock is right, as long as there is water filling it, cut away with the plasma, but a grinder using the lip as a guide is how i will do my next one. That way I have a comparison...

 

[RonRock]

Not sure if Oxy is better than BKF. I have just let the hot water oxyclean mix soak usually overnight, then as I'm draining the keg give it a good scrub with a green scotchbrite. Cleans the smoke residue from the plasma cut right up.

As far as the slag goes, I'd try scraping it off first. Then any left over maybe hit it with a sanding disk. If you use a sanding disk it will cause sanding scratches that will need to be sanded out with finer and finer disks. Eventually getting to the scotchbrite pads and a smooth surface.


Maybe you can knock the slag off with a paint stick or plastic scraper? Something that won't scrape the finish as easily as a chisel.

One thing about it. If the slag don't come off easily it is probably stuck there for good if you just leave it. If it isn't too bad maybe just leave it. It's on the Hot Side, what's it going to hurt? Just a thought.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

Not sure if Oxy is better than BKF. I have just let the hot water oxyclean mix soak usually overnight, then as I'm draining the keg give it a good scrub with a green scotchbrite. Cleans the smoke residue from the plasma cut right up.

As far as the slag goes, I'd try scraping it off first. Then any left over maybe hit it with a sanding disk. If you use a sanding disk it will cause sanding scratches that will need to be sanded out with finer and finer disks. Eventually getting to the scotchbrite pads and a smooth surface.


Maybe you can knock the slag off with a paint stick or plastic scraper? Something that won't scrape the finish as easily as a chisel.

One thing about it. If the slag don't come off easily it is probably stuck there for good if you just leave it. If it isn't too bad maybe just leave it. It's on the Hot Side, what's it going to hurt? Just a thought.

thats what i was thinking. also is it possible that the slag melted the steel a little bit causing it to be a little crater or raise it up so it feels like slag but its really just part of the keg? i was going to use one keg for HLT and the other for BK. so i think i mite be ok since like you said it is on the hot side.

 

[RonRock]

My guess is that the slag was so hot when it hit the keg, that it melted into the metal. Causing a bit of a pit in the base metal rather than a bump. That is why it surprises me that it won't simply pop off. Without actually seeing it myself it is hard to say. But I'd guess that it is not as bad as it seems. You will probably forget about it once you start using the keggles. And if not you can always scrape and scrub a little each time.

I did not notice in the thread. Is this on the bottom? Or sides of the keg? Bottom would probably be easier to sand and smooth than the sides. But it is also farther away from the top where the plasma cut, so the slag should have cooled somewhat before hitting.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

My guess is that the slag was so hot when it hit the keg, that it melted into the metal. Causing a bit of a pit in the base metal rather than a bump. That is why it surprises me that it won't simply pop off. Without actually seeing it myself it is hard to say. But I'd guess that it is not as bad as it seems. You will probably forget about it once you start using the keggles. And if not you can always scrape and scrub a little each time.

I did not notice in the thread. Is this on the bottom? Or sides of the keg? Bottom would probably be easier to sand and smooth than the sides. But it is also farther away from the top where the plasma cut, so the slag should have cooled somewhat before hitting.

this is the best i could do for a pic. its on the bottom and sides and it doesnt seem to be poppin off at all. i tried metal gasket scraper and chisels and scuff pads. havent used green one yet. still a little scared too lol. plus i have to pretend im working for a bit while im here i guess. i just dont wana grind too much material off for no reason.

 

[RonRock]

From that shot it don't look bad at all. I would not worry about using a green scotchbrite. Those pads aren't very coarse you will not hurt anything. If a "Greenie" smooths it out I'd call it good. Otherwise I'd maybe think about using a sander first, then finishing with a finer grit, then maybe a greenie.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

From that shot it don't look bad at all. I would not worry about using a green scotchbrite. Those pads aren't very coarse you will not hurt anything. If a "Greenie" smooths it out I'd call it good. Otherwise I'd maybe think about using a sander first, then finishing with a finer grit, then maybe a greenie.

yeah im gonna get started eith the greenie when its done drying out. ill post a pic when done. most likely tomorrow

 

[bluecarpetsample]

To get that stuff off, you should use a flap wheel and then follow that up by using a green scruby with Barkeeper's Friend. The oxalic acid in it (which does the cleaning) will oxidize the stainless, which passivates it. Make sure you get all of the spots off with the flap wheel before using the BKF, so as to remove all of the contaminates from the plasma slag.

 

[RonRock]

That sounds like a good route to take.

 

[MrStrangeBrew]

so finally finished grinding all the stupid slag off. im pretty happy with results and it mite not look pretty but no more slag and i dont think i damaged the keg either i was gentle and tried not to stay too long in one spot. they are bothnow soaking in BKF which i will let sit until thew end of work today. i starting soaking them at around 8am and ill be done here about 5pm so ill rinse and wipe a few times and hopefully that will be good enough no re passivate. if i even needed too.

thanks to everyone for all your helps and tips! now onto the next project.....

 

[RonRock]

Gotta be happy with that. Cool for you.

 

[dmfa200]

Good to hear that.

Stainless steel is very resilient. Otherwise it wouldn't be one of the most commonly used metals.

As far as a keg goes I'd hit it with anything I've got. Just as long as it's clean.

If I had one of those Blichmann kettles or a conical I'd be a little more cautious, but that's only because I wouldn't want to mess up the finish. Not because I'd contaminate it.

 

[russ64]

I recently took the time to make my own keggle. I gave the keg to a friend to plasma cut, i cleaned and removed the spear first when everything was done there was metal splatter and didnt notice it till i did a test boil. Read the forms and everyone was lucky to have beer still im the keg or as other posted said to fill with water. Well i didnt do that so what do i do now? Soaked with hot oxy clean? Didn't work. Bar keepers friend? Nope it helped remove the rust but didnt take off the slag. Used a Scotch-Brite pad? Also didnt help much, what helped for me was getting a metal grinding/polishing pad from home depot. Its not a metal grinder blade its more sand paper grinder wheel. Now this scratches the bottom of the keg but does this even matter? I re-passivication the keg by useing star-san and seems to be fine. I hope this helps some one all that work for nothing definitely sucked but I think I salvaged it.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1434455624.320147.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1434455645.421126.jpg

 

[helterscelter]

I recently took the time to make my own keggle. I gave the keg to a friend to plasma cut, i cleaned and removed the spear first when everything was done there was metal splatter and didnt notice it till i did a test boil. Read the forms and everyone was lucky to have beer still im the keg or as other posted said to fill with water. Well i didnt do that so what do i do now? Soaked with hot oxy clean? Didn't work. Bar keepers friend? Nope it helped remove the rust but didnt take off the slag. Used a Scotch-Brite pad? Also didnt help much, what helped for me was getting a metal grinding/polishing pad from home depot. Its not a metal grinder blade its more sand paper grinder wheel. Now this scratches the bottom of the keg but does this even matter? I re-passivication the keg by useing star-san and seems to be fine. I hope this helps some one all that work for nothing definitely sucked but I think I salvaged it.

Is that pic a before or an after? (I sure hope it's a before)

 

[russ64]

Its a before ill try to load the after not sure why it didnt up load both here before and after. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1434455758.939773.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1434455769.591376.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1434455779.170846.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1434455788.495457.jpg