International Pale Lager Japanese Rice Lager

[deadwolfbones]

In some cases, yes. For heavily dry-hopped beers I sometimes transfer to a serving keg, but for lagers I mostly serve in the fermenting keg. I recently left a mild and a Helles on the yeast for several months without any issues.

From what I understand the fears of yeast autolysis are overblown and unlikely to occur with the fermenter geometry and volumes homebrewers use.

 

[ba-brewer]

In some cases, yes. For heavily dry-hopped beers I sometimes transfer to a serving keg, but for lagers I mostly serve in the fermenting keg. I recently left a mild and a Helles on the yeast for several months without any issues.

From what I understand the fears of yeast autolysis are overblown and unlikely to occur with the fermenter geometry and volumes homebrewers use.

Thanks for the info.

I have had some jars of yeast slurry in the fridge for over an year without getting funky which made me wonder if you really have to worry so much about getting the beer of the yeast. Something else that I have noticed is beer over saved yeast seems to clear better and faster than some of the beers in the kegs.
I really like the idea of fermenting and serving from the same keg, not looking to go out a year but maybe 3 or 4 months combined conditioning and serving.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I have not actually tried fermenting and serving from the keg but perhaps I should.

In my experience, the case for leaving wort on the yeast cake and getting off flavors is seriously overblown.

@deadwolfbones Do you have an airlock on your keg, or periodically vent the release valve or some other trick?

 

[deadwolfbones]

I have not actually tried fermenting and serving from the keg but perhaps I should.

In my experience, the case for leaving wort on the yeast cake and getting off flavors is seriously overblown.

@deadwolfbones Do you have an airlock on your keg, or periodically vent the release valve or some other trick?

I just use a gas QD blowoff until ferm is done and then seal it up for the crash.

Sometimes I use a spunding valve at the end of ferm.

 

[Sleepy_D]

Wanted to resurrect this thread. Anyone make this or a different awesome Japanese rice lager lately?

 

[Snark_Wolf_Brewing]

Wanted to resurrect this thread. Anyone make this or a different awesome Japanese rice lager lately?

Haven't tried this specific recipe, but a Japanese rice lager is definitely on my 'To Brew' list at some point.

 

[Sleepy_D]

Haven't tried this specific recipe, but a Japanese rice lager is definitely on my 'To Brew' list at some point.

I made one a little while ago sort of based on the original recipe in this thread. Got scared off from using sorachi ace tho (too many people told me to was way too dill forward) and used Saaz in its place. What I made was good, but tasted more like American lager than anything else. Going to try again with sorachi ace I think but not 100% on the rest of the recipe yet

 

[ba-brewer]

My last lager was a rice adjunct lager.

85% American 2row and 15% minute rice, bittered with magnum and late hops of saphir to 20IBU, fermented with S-23. I was shooting for 4.5%ABV but better efficiency and attenuation then planned took it to 5.4ABV.

It is still lagering and I have not tried it yet but it at about 6weeks so I should take a taste soon to see how things are going.

 

[Snark_Wolf_Brewing]

I have an old copy of the recipe book 'Clone Brews' and one of the recipes is for Asahi Draft Dry. I'm very tempted.

 

[Sleepy_D]

I have an old copy of the recipe book 'Clone Brews' and one of the recipes is for Asahi Draft Dry. I'm very tempted.

Would you like to share? Lol

 

[ebbelwoi]

If you're looking to stay "authentic", keep in mind that Japanese macro adjunct lagers contain not only rice but corn as well, and also some kind of mystery starch (it just says "starch" on the label).

 

[Snark_Wolf_Brewing]

If you're looking to stay "authentic", keep in mind that Japanese macro adjunct lagers contain not only rice but corn as well, and also some kind of mystery starch (it just says "starch" on the label).

Could be anything then. Corn, potato...who knows.

 

[ebbelwoi]

If I had to guess, I'd imagine it's something like maltodextrin. Someone who took the brewery tour nearby said that they use two yeasts for Super Dry. Maybe the second one dries it out so much that they need to add a little body back? Just a wild guess.

One of these days I should buy a can of Super Dry and check the final gravity.

 

[ba-brewer]

I used corn starch once, got gravity points like I used corn sugar but it did not dry it out like a pound a corn sugar would have.

Most adjuncts cost more than barley malt for the homebrewers but corn starch is almost the same price. Easy to work with too, just mixed with the malt and mashed as normal.

 

[Snark_Wolf_Brewing]

Would you like to share? Lol

I got digging in the search bar, there's actually a recipe for it right here on HBT that's a lot less confusing than the one in 'Clone Brews'

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/by-popular-demand-the-asahi-dry-clone.12143/

 

[Sleepy_D]

I got digging in the search bar, there's actually a recipe for it right here on HBT that's a lot less confusing than the one in 'Clone Brews'

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/by-popular-demand-the-asahi-dry-clone.12143/

Thanks! I started googling around and saw that one as well. They’re using all Saaz, really not sure on sorachi ace, I hear so many mixed things

 

[Sleepy_D]

If you're looking to stay "authentic", keep in mind that Japanese macro adjunct lagers contain not only rice but corn as well, and also some kind of mystery starch (it just says "starch" on the label).

Honestly I’m not as concerned with authenticity as I am with flavor. I imagine the “starch” contribution is just whatever cheap neutral source of starch they can use to create sugar and ultimately dry out the beer. I should be able to use just rice in the right relative amount to achieve the same thing.

 

[ebbelwoi]

I've been in Japan for 20+ years. I'd say go with the Saaz, definitely not the Sorachi Ace.

As far as flavor is concerned, I honestly don't get much flavor out of Japanese adjunct lagers. I'm always a bit perplexed when people want to clone them. I guess it's just a challenge that people want to attempt?

Japanese adjunct lagers are clean and dry. It's not so much about the rice. It's about the process.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

I used corn starch once, got gravity points like I used corn sugar but it did not dry it out like a pound a corn sugar would have.

Most adjuncts cost more than barley malt for the homebrewers but corn starch is almost the same price. Easy to work with too, just mixed with the malt and mashed as normal.

I prefer flaked rice rather than cereal mashing plain rice for rice lagers ( love them ). I have found that Indian/sub continent grocers sell flaked rice that is half the price of home brew shop flaked rice and works the same.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

I've been in Japan for 20+ years. I'd say go with the Saaz, definitely not the Sorachi Ace.

As far as flavor is concerned, I honestly don't get much flavor out of Japanese adjunct lagers. I'm always a bit perplexed when people want to clone them. I guess it's just a challenge that people want to attempt?

Japanese adjunct lagers are clean and dry. It's not so much about the rice. It's about the process.

I like rice lagers in summer ( australia ), and I’m after clean, light bodied and dry. Do you dry hop with Saaz?.

I actually prefer adjunct lagers to fuller body euro lagers

 

[ba-brewer]

As far as flavor is concerned, I honestly don't get much flavor out of Japanese adjunct lagers. I'm always a bit perplexed when people want to clone them. I guess it's just a challenge that people want to attempt?

I buy very little commercial beer, if I want a particular style I will brew it. My interest in rice lagers though is/was more to see if rice would help with the chill haze I seem to be plagued with for the last couple of years. I know I can fine the beer but I prefer a more natural approach.

 

[dirty_martini]

I've been in Japan for 20+ years. I'd say go with the Saaz, definitely not the Sorachi Ace.

As far as flavor is concerned, I honestly don't get much flavor out of Japanese adjunct lagers. I'm always a bit perplexed when people want to clone them. I guess it's just a challenge that people want to attempt?

Japanese adjunct lagers are clean and dry. It's not so much about the rice. It's about the process.

for me as a homebrewer, it’s taking something as simple as an adjunct lager, and giving it more character. That’s always been the craft mantra right? I’ve never been interested in cloning a specific beer that I will never brew as well as the commercial ones

given the very basic base of base malt and rice (which I much prefer to the American/Mexican corn adjunct addition), you can still make it more interesting. You can make it more bitter like a Pilsner, add a fruitier flare using New Zealand hops or modern new world hops, play with the malt bill to add some malt complexity/or make it even lighter, whatever tickles your fancy. No reason to think you have to make a Sapporo/Kirin/asahi clone exactly to style. But you can use that guideline to build off of where it’s still recognizable.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

 

[Twinkeelfool]

This one has 20% flaked rice from an Indian grocery, and 3% chit malt, which has a very positive effect on the foam and retention. 10 days bottled and while I’ll leave the bulk of them a few more weeks, tonight I’ll have a few more haha

 

[ebbelwoi]

I like rice lagers in summer ( australia ), and I’m after clean, light bodied and dry. Do you dry hop with Saaz?

I use 50/50 Saaz and Hersbrucker.

 

[z-bob]

This one has 20% flaked rice from an Indian grocery, and 3% chit malt, which has a very positive effect on the foam and retention. 10 days bottled and while I’ll leave the bulk of them a few more weeks, tonight I’ll have a few more haha

I think I've heard of chit malt before but not sure. I use rye malt to do the same thing but don't know if a beer this light would stand up to a few percent rye without changing the taste. Anybody have an opinion about adding just a little rye to an adjunct lager or (high-attenuated ale mimicking a lager)?

I also need to hit the Indian/Pakistani grocer and see what kinds of grains they have.

 

[DaveCS]

Reviving this thread...

Going to attempt this on Tuesday (likely) using "Forbidden" rice (aka Black Rice) to see if there's any colour that I can get out of it. I'm hopeful but we'll see...
Keeping the rice at about 30% of the grist whilst BestMalz Heidelberg makes up almost all of the rest with a smidge of Carafoam. Sticking with 34/70 via WLP830 / Escarpment Labs Isar Lager and fermenting under pressure.

 

[Sleepy_D]

Reviving this thread...

Going to attempt this on Tuesday (likely) using "Forbidden" rice (aka Black Rice) to see if there's any colour that I can get out of it. I'm hopeful but we'll see...
Keeping the rice at about 30% of the grist whilst BestMalz Heidelberg makes up almost all of the rest with a smidge of Carafoam. Sticking with 34/70 via WLP830 / Escarpment Labs Isar Lager and fermenting under pressure.

I did one with 3 lbs jasmine rice, 3 lbs barke Pilsner, 3 lbs 2-row. Sorachi ace hops and 34/70. Pretty good beer

 

[DaveCS]

Ya... I have considered adding some Ella at flameout as well but... hmm.. not sure what it'll do with Sorachi Ace. That said, I went with the Heidelberg because I've liked what I get from it in other pilsners (in terms of colour) if there's zero colour imparted from the black rice.

 

[Sleepy_D]

Ya... I have considered adding some Ella at flameout as well but... hmm.. not sure what it'll do with Sorachi Ace. That said, I went with the Heidelberg because I've liked what I get from it in other pilsners (in terms of colour) if there's zero colour imparted from the black rice.

I’ve heard the black rice will give you a purplish color but not sure if it lasts