Isolated Yeast (Tree House): How to Identify and Characterize?

[hmmy92]

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/product-details/lalbrew-cbc-1/
CBC-1 is a "killer yeast" strain and will literally wipe out living competitors, like wb06 and t58...

Cheers!

And how is this yeast related with TH?

 

[TheHairyHop]

I don’t know where this thread has gotten to, since I haven’t logged in in a while. However, I saw this and thought it might be relevant

 

[day_trippr]

And how is this yeast related with TH?

[shrug] I was just answering your question. Maybe go back and re-read the thread?

Cheers!

 

[brewpharm Hill]

And how is this yeast related with TH?

No one is really sure of its application in TH yeast. CBC1 only consumes simple sugars, like glucose and dextrose, which makes it a good candidate for conditioning/natural carbonations.

WB06 is STA1 positive, so it is a diastaticus strain which makes it a high attenuator. Also, folks that have experience with WB06 in wheat beers say that the flavor of the yeast grows stronger with time. Maybe CBC1's kills properties are what keep that from happening during conditioning in the brite tank and after packaging. Again, all speculation. No one really knows.

 

[beervoid]

I don’t know where this thread has gotten to, since I haven’t logged in in a while. However, I saw this and thought it might be relevant

That looks very orange for an ultra pale malt base

 

[mp1000]

The description of data set 3 confirms that the house yeast is a blend!

 

[TheHairyHop]

The description of data set 3 confirms that the house yeast is a blend!

yea, that’s what I was getting at. I was always a doubter (I thought it was incidental), but here we are

 

[echoALEia]

Hope everyone is well. Not sure if anyone has brewed the recently released Treehouse recipe, but below is a side by side of the recipe on the left, and Very Hazy on the right.



I have to say, I really love this recipe - the thing that stands out most to me is the malt bill. After I dry hopped this and let it sit for 48 hours, the malt profile reminded me of the first time I had Haze. Unfortunately I didn’t have a can of Haze on me to compre, so I had to use my only can of Very Hazy (it was an old one from 12/6/22). Instead of using Rahr standard 2row in mine, I used their Pale ale malt (it’s technically 2row - just a little higher srm) making my final SRM around 5.5. The malt profiles are super close, although I would say Very Hazy tasted a LITTLE more roasted. Mine was more hoppy but that’s to be expected.



I think this recipe is great and the hop combination is lovely - I’d suggest everyone try it. I think 10% flaked oats and 5% Carafoam is a good start as well - the body and mouthfeel are spot on. Cheers!

 

[TheHairyHop]

recently released recipe?

 

[day_trippr]

A new version of their 2016 beer?



Cheers!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

recently released recipe?

Likely the recipe from their YouTube videos that was discussed a few pages back.

 

[TheHairyHop]

107 pages in, I can't remember. was la3 ever analysed and compared?

Edit*
I searched but didnt find any analysis of LA3

I’m guessing that this is a LAIII reference

 

[beervoid]

View attachment 816446
I’m guessing that this is a LAIII reference

So many english yeasts out there, marmalade makes me think of the conan family though

 

[TheHairyHop]

So many english yeasts out there, marmalade makes me think of the conan family though

If I was nod and winking at LAIII, that's basically what I would write. Conan almost always comes with a reference to peach rings and/or Vermont

 

[echoALEia]

Likely the recipe from their YouTube videos that was discussed a few pages back.

This…

 

[Mousetrapbrewery]

Hope everyone is well. Not sure if anyone has brewed the recently released Treehouse recipe, but below is a side by side of the recipe on the left, and Very Hazy on the right.



I have to say, I really love this recipe - the thing that stands out most to me is the malt bill. After I dry hopped this and let it sit for 48 hours, the malt profile reminded me of the first time I had Haze. Unfortunately I didn’t have a can of Haze on me to compre, so I had to use my only can of Very Hazy (it was an old one from 12/6/22). Instead of using Rahr standard 2row in mine, I used their Pale ale malt (it’s technically 2row - just a little higher srm) making my final SRM around 5.5. The malt profiles are super close, although I would say Very Hazy tasted a LITTLE more roasted. Mine was more hoppy but that’s to be expected.



I think this recipe is great and the hop combination is lovely - I’d suggest everyone try it. I think 10% flaked oats and 5% Carafoam is a good start as well - the body and mouthfeel are spot on. Cheers!

How was the bitterness on the recipe? Seemed like a lot of hops during bittering phases instead of doing a whirlpool. How long was the wort on the hops after the flame out addition?

 

[echoALEia]

How was the bitterness on the recipe? Seemed like a lot of hops during bittering phases instead of doing a whirlpool. How long was the wort on the hops after the flame out addition?

Well balanced, definitely not over bitter in my opinion. I whirlpooled for 20 minutes.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I figured this video had to be included in this thread! I am not sure what Nate/Treehouse has actually said about their house yeast, but here Nate does call it a "blend."

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So that's conclusive - at least, assuming they're using the Omega thiolised yeasts, at 7:06 he says that Dataset #4 uses "a thiolised yeast strain...based on the base yeast strain that's utilised in Dataset #5". And Dataset#5 uses "a classic European yeast strain that was sold to us as a phenomenal maker of hazy IPA". (9:06)

Omega has only done thiolised versions of their Chico (West Coast Ale I), 1318 (British V) and Mexican Lager. So the working hypothesis would be that #5 is British V and #4 is a thiolised British V, either the original IRC7 Cosmic Punch or the more powerful patB Helio Gazer.

He's a bit vague about the parent strain of #2, but the way he says that it's drier makes me wonder if that's a thiolised Chico, which from Omega would mean the patB Star Party.

One wonders if they are all Omega yeasts, in which case #3 would be one of their eight British ale strains - if they're used to using S-04 then I or II are their Whitbread strains.

 

[beervoid]

So that's conclusive - at least, assuming they're using the Omega thiolised yeasts, at 7:06 he says that Dataset #4 uses "a thiolised yeast strain...based on the base yeast strain that's utilised in Dataset #5". And Dataset#5 uses "a classic European yeast strain that was sold to us as a phenomenal maker of hazy IPA". (9:06)

Omega has only done thiolised versions of their Chico (West Coast Ale I), 1318 (British V) and Mexican Lager. So the working hypothesis would be that #5 is British V and #4 is a thiolised British V, either the original IRC7 Cosmic Punch or the more powerful patB Helio Gazer.

He's a bit vague about the parent strain of #2, but the way he says that it's drier makes me wonder if that's a thiolised Chico, which from Omega would mean the patB Star Party.

One wonders if they are all Omega yeasts, in which case #3 would be one of their eight British ale strains - if they're used to using S-04 then I or II are their Whitbread strains.

sounds like 3 and 5 are london ale based, but 3 has a bit more of that vanilla thing going on? Possible the Verdant / London Fog or that vanilla forward one sapwood cellars is using vs classic 1318?.

 

[couchsending]

I had a buddy send me three of their newer beers cause I wanted to see what the expression of these specific hops had in a Treehosue beer. It is insane how much their yeast blend absolutely tramples hop character. One was using the new hop, Pink, from Jackson Hop Farms. The other was showcasing 1019 and the the other was a Nelson focused beer.

These are are very expressive hops that are rather unique. One should be able to pick them out upon cracking the can. I literally could barely tell these beers apart. 1019 is maybe one of the most powerful, unique, expressive hops to date and again maybe every 2nd or 3rd sip could I find it. All their beers taste and smell so much alike it’s crazy. I’ve also had a decent amount of what I believe is acetaldehyde in quite a few of their beers lately.

There are certainly better yeasts available to make great hazy hoppy beers these days.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It is insane how much their yeast blend absolutely tramples hop character.

That would be compatible with WB-06 being in there, which single-handedly trashes hop character IME - perhaps there's been a change in process which means WB-06 becomes more rampant (pitching together rather than separate fermentations?? or something similar??)

 

[Callacave]

I had a buddy send me three of their newer beers cause I wanted to see what the expression of these specific hops had in a Treehosue beer. It is insane how much their yeast blend absolutely tramples hop character. One was using the new hop, Pink, from Jackson Hop Farms. The other was showcasing 1019 and the the other was a Nelson focused beer.

These are are very expressive hops that are rather unique. One should be able to pick them out upon cracking the can. I literally could barely tell these beers apart. 1019 is maybe one of the most powerful, unique, expressive hops to date and again maybe every 2nd or 3rd sip could I find it. All their beers taste and smell so much alike it’s crazy. I’ve also had a decent amount of what I believe is acetaldehyde in quite a few of their beers lately.

There are certainly better yeasts available to make great hazy hoppy beers these days.

Man, this has always been my problem with them. Years ago, after the initial wow over the flavors I quickly realized no matter what hops they used they were completely masked by that house yeast flavor. Sometimes I wondered if they just slap a different label on some of their beers and call it a day.

I wish they would just consolidate what they offer. Sometimes it's just too much. They should stick to some core stuff with their house yeast, but offer some others that can showcase hops. I get they probably don't want to rock the boat because the train is still chugging, but someday I feel you'll see them branch out a bit once the luster wears off, and people have had enough of that flavor. They do surprisingly make some good Euro Lagers. It flies under the radar, of course cause hops trump for now.

In the end my tastes have been moving over to more subtle and nuanced flavors. Cleaner profiles, tasting what an ingredient or two does for a beer. I've tired of getting walloped over the head with fruit salad beer.

 

[PilotAlex17]

I get everyone has preferences but a lot of us are looking to achieve fruit salad beer. I recently went and love everything I got. Juice Machine, Very Green, King Julius… each very different from each other.

Has anyone controlled WB-06 as to not produce the clove?

Does anyone have links to Nate’s online forum posts that have “nuggets of wisdom” as referenced by Fidens Brewing Co in their Craft Beer and Brewing article?

 

[Callacave]

I get everyone has preferences but a lot of us are looking to achieve fruit salad beer. I recently went and love everything I got. Juice Machine, Very Green, King Julius… each very different from each other.

Has anyone controlled WB-06 as to not produce the clove?

Does anyone have links to Nate’s online forum posts that have “nuggets of wisdom” as referenced by Fidens Brewing Co in their Craft Beer and Brewing article?

Yup, I'm not down on anybody enjoying what they make. I do too. Couch just struck a cord in me that nailed exactly how I've felt for a while.

I haven't been in a while to TH, but I'm do for a stop on the way home from my commute. I enjoy many of the beers they make, my taste buds have just shifted over the years to other things.

I would be curious to see if someone could blend after fermentation to at least be able to dial in some ratios. Would be cool if someone had 4 taps, and were able to dedicate each one to specific strains. I could easily see someone being able to discreetly dial in exact amounts till they think they came close enough. Of course, that's assuming what they do.

 

[beervoid]

I've blended a wheat with a hazy once, was surprising how little of the wheat beer was necessary to change the overall flavor profile of the beer.
Didnt make the beer any better though

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I would be curious to see if someone could blend after fermentation to at least be able to dial in some ratios.

That happened at a fairly early stage in this thread, something like 87:8:5 S-04:T-58:WB-06 IIRC

 

[NJGeorge]

I get everyone has preferences but a lot of us are looking to achieve fruit salad beer. I recently went and love everything I got. Juice Machine, Very Green, King Julius… each very different from each other.

Has anyone controlled WB-06 as to not produce the clove?

Does anyone have links to Nate’s online forum posts that have “nuggets of wisdom” as referenced by Fidens Brewing Co in their Craft Beer and Brewing article?

Yes. Early on in this thread I did a wb only beer with a lot of hops and the clove was still present no matter what we did. Same with the yeast blends including wb. I still don’t think they are using wb unless they are doing something to get rid of that clove. I did so4 with t58 with not bad results.

 

[EwoutM]

Tree House just released a new data set video


I have them all in my fridge ready for tasting.

 

[hmmy92]

Nate if you are watching this thread send us a high five

Tree House just released a new data set video


I have them all in my fridge ready for tasting.

What yeast can be?