Imperial Stout Help

[Boy]

Working on an Imperial Oatmeal Stout/KBS and need help with process and additives. Trying to walk a line between something like Deschutes Abyss and Founders KBS. This is only my second big beer and the first did not go very smoothly. Looking for any help or critiques. I want this to be really complex with all of the flavors working together and none getting drowned out.

Batch size: 6 Gallons
OG: 1.100
FG: 1.024
IBUs: 65
BU:GU 0.65
SRM: 65
ABV: 10.1%
Efficiency: 65%(downgraded from my average of 77%)
US-05 estimated 76% attenutation.

71% Gambrinus Pale Malt: 18lbs
9% Flaked Oatmeal: 2.25 lbs
6% Chocolate Malt 350L: 1.5lbs
6% Roasted Barley: 1.5lbs
5% Wheat Malt: 1lbs 6oz
3% British Crystal 55L: 14oz

1.75oz Nugget FWH-90
.5oz Nugget 5min
1oz Willamette 5min

15 minutes: 2.5oz Bittersweet Bakers chocolate, 1.5oz Cocoa Nibs, 8oz Blackstrap Molasses.
5 minutes: .5oz Licorice root
Flameout: 2.5oz Coarse ground coffee
Secondary: 2oz French Oak cubes soaked in Wild Turkey. 7(?) days
Bottling: 8oz Cold press coffee, Wild Turkey from oak cubes, Brown Sugar for priming.

Mash @ 154F for 90 minutes. 1qt per lbs ratio. Double batch sparge for 9 gallons. Kettle caramelize 1 gallon of first runnings down to a pint. Total preboil volume is 8 Gallons.

Questions. Should I calculate boil size as 8 gallons or 9? Will either direction overly effect my gravity? Will the caramelization come through with everything else? Same question for the licorice? Is 7 days too much or too little for the oak in a beer as big as this? Any suggestions on carb levels would also help. Planning on 2.3 volumes but I don't want to overcarb and lose body.

Thanks

 

[baldilocks]

1. Not sure how your system is, but for me, mashing at 154 for a beer as big as this (plus using US-05) will make it quite sweet with a real high FG. If this is what you are going for, fine. But an FG of 1.024 may be difficult. Perhap something in the 150/149 range may be better. But once again, your system may be different.

2. You won't get much from a 7 day secodary on oak cubes. If you are going for a real oak flavor, then you will need upwards of 2-3 months.

3. As for carbing, I have always had trouble carbing big beers. Not sure if it is the alcoholic environment or what. I even have trouble carbing when adding yeast at bottling. My personal goal is to keg my future big beers and bottle from the keg to ensure a better carb. This way you can test the carb before you bottle to ensure the proper level. As for levels, 2.3 seems fine.

 

[GuldTuborg]

I want this to be really complex with all of the flavors working together and none getting drowned out.

I don't have a whole lot of experience with flavoring big beers like this, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Considering this is only your first big beer, I would strongly suggest making the basic recipe first. Once that is done, and is conditioning, you can draw a sample and try flavoring it with various ratios of coffee/oak/licorice/chocolate/bourbon/molasses/whatever. That will give you an idea of how much of each to use in the main brew. You have so many elements in play here, I can't think it would be anything but blind luck to get it all right when trying to do everything at once.

 

[Boy]

In the past I have worked with coffee, both grounds and cold press, chocolate in various forms, and adding liquor. My last attempt at a big beer was a test batch and it went pear shaped due to sparging process not being planned for so much grain but such a small boil.

Honestly I'm pretty confident in the grain bill. It's the additives that I'm focusing on.

 

[BeerLogic]

I will say one thing about the grain bill - with all that oatmeal already in there the wheat isn't doing anything but giving you an even gunkier sparge.

As far as the additives go, I wouldn't use bittersweet chocolate since it has some fat content and could form weird oily droplets in your beer.

Otherwise that sounds awesome.

 

[boostsr20]

I will say one thing about the grain bill - with all that oatmeal already in there the wheat isn't doing anything but giving you an even gunkier sparge.

As far as the additives go, I wouldn't use bittersweet chocolate since it has some fat content and could form weird oily droplets in your beer.

Otherwise that sounds awesome.

Kbs is on the dry end of the style and they use a good amount of flaked barley. I'd drop the molasses and use a higher attenuating yeast with a huge starter or better yet, a washed yeast cake. Try wlp090. Make sure to oxygenate it like crazy.

 

[brewtus_]

With the wheat and oatmeal in there, I'd throw in a couple of handfulls (maybe a pound) of rice hulls to make sparging a bit easier.

 

[GuldTuborg]

Honestly I'm pretty confident in the grain bill. It's the additives that I'm focusing on.

That's a good part of what I'm talking about, though. How do you know how much of each to use to get that perfect balance? If you haven't worked with and refined this recipe over several iterations, your best chance of success seems to be tinkering with ratios in a test batch (which you pull from the fermentor), not unlike the process used in blending several beers together. Anyway, that's the way it looks to me.

 

[boostsr20]

Kbs is on the dry end of the style and they use a good amount of flaked barley. I'd drop the molasses and use a higher attenuating yeast with a huge starter or better yet, a washed yeast cake. Try wlp090. Make sure to oxygenate it like crazy.

Founders also suggested using cheap liquor as you get more character from it. I know a lot of breweries use barrels from Jim beam. We picked one up from new holland and have a stout going in it. At 2 months it tastes fantastic.

 

[Boy]

Swapped the wheat for flaked barley and cut the amount a little. Also added rice hulls into the mix. Going to plan on 2-3 months on the oak and just do weekly tasters until it's right.

Can anyone comment on licorice in stouts from experience. I've dug around through here and google but haven't found anything really specific.

New plan is to mash at 150 for 90min. and let the 05 run wild. My estimate and experience is showing a FG of 1.020-.22 if I go this route. This beer should have a lot of body anyway so I think I should aim for more attenuation and avoid a stuck fermentation.(?)

 

[boostsr20]

Haven't used licorice personally but I've had many beers with it in it. Most notable Bells Kalamazoo Stout which is a lighter stout than what your looking at and it works very well. I'd be a bit concerned that you have a lot of specialty flavors (coffee, chocolate, molasses, licorice, liquor, and oak). It'll either end up being a total success or a decent beer with muddled flavors. Personally the first time brewing it I would just pick a couple avenues and add more next time if you think it lacks somewhere.

 

[Boy]

Now I can say thanks for the tip. Balancing this info with the Abyss clone and Founders KBS threads gives me an idea on the licorice and other adjuncts. Everything else is elementary. 1 search on HBT about flavors is a guess or luck, 8 tabs plus google is not luck. Research, ADD, and boredom can pretty much solve any beer recipe problem.

 

[Boy]

Brewed this first week in January. Hit 1.094 OG(9 pts shy) but pretty happy with it for a first try. Fermentation stalled at 1.030 but with swirling and warming I got it to 1.026 before my power went out and the house got down to 50F so it's not quite as low as I was hoping.

Mixed 4oz Grade B with 4oz black strap for a mix of flavors.
Kettle caramelization went very smooth and reduced 1.5 Gallons to 24oz. Smell was incredible!
Only fiasco was not putting the nibs on a bag. Made draining a serious PITA!

Going to split a gallon off the batch to oak with bourbon and then blend back in. Oddly adding a splash of Makers to a sample I drew seemed to open up the flavors and aroma even more. Pretty excited at this point.

 

[Boy]

Just bottled this beer over the weekend and am still excited. Going to taste it in about two months to get an initial idea. Realized that by the time I brewed this the recipe changed even more and wanted to update it and the process. Here's a screen shot of the final recipe.

Although the recipe says 8oz of Black Treacle, I actually used 4oz Grade B Molasses and 4oz Black Strap. Limitations on Beer Calculus options.

Mashed at 154F for 75 minutes. FG got down to 1.024 with swirling and warming, but like I said above I lost power and that was then of that.

For secondary I did split 1 gallon out of the 5 and added 1oz of Medium Toast Plus oak cubes that I soaked in Maker's Mark for 3 1/2 weeks. Added the cubes and the whiskey straight into the 1 gallon jug and racked on top of it. Left that for 4 weeks. This way if the oak started to get too strong I was still covered by blending on a 5:1 ratio. Flavors from the 4 weeks were very spicy and whiskey rich with alcohol warmth and roastiness underneath. Still really smooth though. The other 4 Gallon split received 4oz of cold pressed coffee.

Recombined batch at 4 weeks and let sit for another month. At bottling I added another 6oz of cold press coffee. I split the coffee adds because in the past when I have done a single large addition at bottling it has dominated the flavors for at least the first 6 months. By doing two smaller adds and giving one more time in the fermenter it should let the flavors meld better.

 

[Boy]

That screen shot didn't include all the side ingredients. Here is the complete shot. Just tried my first one and was blown away. Definitely sending it to competition this summer. We just put Great Divide's Yeti on tap this week where I work and I would say they are some what similar. Mine is little more roasty and the oak and makers shine. I haven't tried the bourbon barrel yeti yet but I'm willing to bet they would be fairly close. I'll get a good pic next time I pour one. Unfortunately I only have 4 left since I gave all the rest to my friend to celebrate his upcoming baby.

 

[Boy]

Getting curious about entering this into an upcoming comp. Seems like 23 Specialty is the best fit for everything that is going on but would appreciate any other feed back.

 

[chiteface]

Founders also suggested using cheap liquor as you get more character from it. I know a lot of breweries use barrels from Jim beam. We picked one up from new holland and have a stout going in it. At 2 months it tastes fantastic.

So you reused a barrel? I have one from shorts just sitting around. Dried out. Any suggestions on how to sanitize?

 

[FATC1TY]

So you reused a barrel? I have one from shorts just sitting around. Dried out. Any suggestions on how to sanitize?

You could add some boiling water to it. That'll kill some nasties, and wet it out. I'm sure that dry barrel will leak like hell until it swells.

 

[chiteface]

You could add some boiling water to it. That'll kill some nasties, and wet it out. I'm sure that dry barrel will leak like hell until it swells.

Yeah, my only concern is that it is a 55 gallon barrel so I'm not sure how to get water to it safely.