Russian Imperial Stout -

[Gadjobrinus]

Thought it better here than in the general all grain thread. Just working on a Baltic Imperial stout for when we get back from Christmas.

Based on some thoughts by @Northern_Brewer , looking at a Belgian abbey ale. He recommends WLP540 or BE-256; thoughts on Wyeast 1214, Abbey Ale?

My usual efficiency is 80%. I pulled it down to 70%, which may mean my OG is higher than anticipated. Still learning parameters on the new system. I'm limited by my Igloo mash tun so will likely be doing 3.5 gallons.

Malts:

55% GP
3.3% Simpson's Chocolate
11.7% Amber
8.3% Brown
5% black patent
6.7% Simpson's DRC
3.3% Invert 2
6.7% Invert 4

Mash at 150F x 90 minutes. Mashout at 170 x 20 minutes. Anticipated OG = 1.107.

Hops:

Anticipated IBU (note this presumes a 10% hopstand utilization): 85

1 oz Challenger (7.00% AA) - 90 min.
1 oz. Northdown (5.2%) 45 min
.75 oz. Phoenix (11.5% AA) 15 min.**
1 oz. Bramling Cross (5.10% AA) 10 min.
1 oz. EKG (5.50% AA) - knockout, WP and 30 min. hopstand.

**The only Phoenix I can get is 2020. If that's not recommended, thinking of Northdown at 15 as well as 45 min. in place of the Phoenix.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I'm mostly just commenting to *bump* this, cuz I wanna see what brewers who know way more than I do, have to say...

My only comment would be: By the time any recipe with 5% black patent starts tasting good, most of the hop flavor and aromas will probably have disappeared.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I'm mostly just commenting to *bump* this, cuz I wanna see what brewers who know way more than I do, have to say...

My only comment would be: By the time any recipe with 5% black patent starts tasting good, most of the hop flavor and aromas will probably have disappeared.

I agree, but then I'm not looking for hop character in this. I've been blown away, actually, by how much I'm seeing in vintage recipes like John Pattinson's for black - e.g., 1914 Courage: 9%! That, and for instance the massive amount of IBUs in something like his 1924 Barclay Perkins. (Still don't know why he's only coming up with 132 IBUs. I'm getting almost double that, at 221).

I can't recall the members but a few have come forward to say these old-school, high black and IBU stouts are magnificent. I think I'm coming to understand that these boys are for laying down - like, possibly, years. So all the rough edges including acrid harshness from the black and raw bitterness from the hops come into balance. Hopefully more guys who have done some of these vintage RIS's will chime in.

 

[DBhomebrew]

(Still don't know why he's only coming up with 132 IBUs. I'm getting almost double that, at 221).

How are you coming up with the 221? Are you just putting in the hops by weight as it is in the recipe? You've got to work backward from the target IBUs based on your system and the AA% of the hops in your hands.

Also, yeah. These things get laid down for years. For historical accuracy, upwards of a year with Brett C (important to note when looking at the recipe FGs, they're pre-brett). Then another year or so in the bottle before it starts to hit its stride. Currently enjoying a 1914 Courage IS I brewed just before my youngest was born. He's now running around and pulling sentences together.

 

[MaxStout]

You could replace the black patent with dehusked Carafa III or black barley if you want to tame the harshness.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

How are you coming up with the 221? Are you just putting in the hops by weight as it is in the recipe? You've got to work backward from the target IBUs based on your system and the AA% of the hops in your hands.

Also, yeah. These things get laid down for years. For historical accuracy, upwards of a year with Brett C (important to note when looking at the recipe FGs, they're pre-brett). Then another year or so in the bottle before it starts to hit its stride. Currently enjoying a 1914 Courage IS I brewed just before my youngest was born. He's now running around and pulling sentences together.

Excellent data points, thanks! I didn't calculate them myself, just plugged the amounts into Promash. The OG comes out close, but the IBUs - yeah, don't get it.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

You could replace the black patent with dehusked Carafa III or black barley if you want to tame the harshness.

Yep, thanks. My original "Black Stag Imperial Baltic Stout" from 2018 had the Dingeman's:

-and a 2001 "Baltic Black Ale" had the "carafa special" (and rye malt, sort of bizarrely, as I never really used it. Tip of the hat to my Estonian in-laws?):

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I don't find black malt harsh. I buy English black malt in England. Kernel is one of the best craft brewers in England and uses more than 5% black malt in some of its excellent dark beers, alongside significant amounts of American hops.

I don't know if this is down to different malts or different taste perceptions.

For an abbey beer I'd recommend Lalbrew Abbaye as a dry option. It's believed to be the Chimay strain, and I've found it to be a very good alternative to liquid. Obviously there are several good liquid options. I just like the convenience and significant price advantage in the UK of dry yeast unless the dry options are just not as good. In this case I reckon it's a pretty close call.