Working on a Wheat Stout Recipe

[easttex]

Have decided I'd like to try my hand at brewing a wheat stout later this month. There isn't much about them online, but I have a general idea about what I want.

5lbs	5.00	38%	2-Row
3lbs 8oz	3.50	27%	White Wheat
1lbs 8oz	1.50	12%	Red Wheat
1lbs 4oz	1.25	10%	Blonde Roast Oats
12oz	0.75	6%	Midnight Wheat
8oz	0.50	4%	Caramel 120
4oz	0.25	2%	Chocolate
4oz	0.25	2%	Roast Barley
	13.00​		Pounds Grain
1lb 5oz	1.30	10%	Rice Hulls
5lbs 12oz	5.75	44%	Total Wheat
	About 40 SRM & 6% ABV
3/4oz	@ 60 Bittering	36IBU	Nugget
1oz	@10 Aroma	16IBU	Chinook

I've never one of these before would welcome any feedback or suggestions. Or if it looks good, it looks good.

I'm shooting for a jet black, smooth drinking stout with a touch of complexity. Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Well, I’m not familiar with this “style” but since you aren’t using “sweet” malts your IBUs could be unnecessarily high. Unless you’re looking for a strong bitterness, that is.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Why not just cut the oats, sub caramel 60 @6% for the 120 and that much midnite wheat is asking for astringency.... I would simplify the grain bill, use pils for the base malt and pattern after a dunkelweizen and use a medium attenuating ale yeast for some sweetness/maltiness to combat those hops.
I don't see the need for any oats, the wheat gives enough body/head for the beer.
Really complicated grain bill there.

 

[AlexKay]

It looks good.

I agree the grain bill is complicated. This won't make it a bad beer, and if you're using up odds and ends, it makes sense. If you're new-ish to making recipes, I'd recommend simplification for the sake of building ingredient understanding, but otherwise no problems.

Random thoughts, in no particular order:

• 2-row is a missed opportunity, IMO. Maris Otter or some other English pale ale malt is going to be better.
• I don't think there's any reason to have both red and white wheat, and I would pick one (probably white.)
• I always pick English crystal over American caramel malts. There's just more to them. In this case, I'd go with a medium ~50L crystal. There's also crystal wheat from both American and English maltsters (English crystal wheat might be pretty hard to find. And maybe a bit dark. But Farmhouse seems to stock it, if you're ordering.)
• I like midnight wheat here. If you're thinking about simplifying, you probably don't need both the chocolate and the roast barley.
• If you're going for "smooth drinking," you probably want some unmalted wheat in there.
• If you're thinking an American take on stout, you've got a ton of good options for aroma hops. C hops. Piney hops (I like Northern Brewer). Fruity hops. Weird experimental hops. It's hard to go wrong.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

I wouldn't go weird fruity hops on a stout that has high roasted wheats or just wheat in general have their own aromas/flavors that approximate fruits. Could cancel one another or mute.
However yeast is another thing with me in stouts. I would do something like Verdant/London Ale III modified NEIPA yeast. On a stout loss of clarity or haze is applicable, the wheats will see to that. Once I used WB-06 at higher temp and the clove/white pepper really made it pop. I do the same thing with Cry Havoc/Fist Bump too for a more Germanic Kolschy flair.
Stouts and dark beers are fun, they allow for alot of leeway.
Just gotta make sure ingredients don't step on each other.

 

[OleBrewing]

when ever i have made own recipe stouts which is only a few. I never worried about flavoring hops at the end of boil. and for bittering put them in a half hour in the boil. i figured the roasted malts should hold there own bitterness and just let the malt shine through.

in my experience with nugget with moderate pale ales a half ounce was more than enough for 60; but for me to much nugget bothers my personal taste buds and then that is all i will taste.

 

[AlexKay]

Yeast.

The last several American-style stouts and porters I've made, I've used Lallemand Koln. It is a wonderful yeast, and does great things with dark beers.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

What makes your recipe a stout and not a Dunkelweissen?

 

[IslandLizard]

Are the white and red wheat malted grain, or flaked/rolled adjuncts? If those are flaked/rolled adjuncts you probably want to do a cereal mash with them. If they're malts, you don't, of course.

 

[Miraculix]

Way to many ingredients.

One base malt, wheat. If you biab no additional barley malt necessary, otherwise you'd need some probably.

One crystal malt, if you want it for flavor reasons (which I would recommend in this case), use between 5% and 10% of the grist.

Roasted malt only midnight wheat, 10%. This way, the delicate wheat flavour is not overshadowed by intense roasted barley flavor.

Ibus, don't go above 30, strong bitterness doesn't suit the delicate wheat flavour. 25 ibus would be best imo. No late additions, no dry hopping, noble hops only.

Oats are completely unnecessary here from a recipe perspective but could be useful to promote yeast health at about ten percent of the grist.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Miraculix's American Session Wheat Stout

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/how-dare-you-american-session-wheat-stout.704193/post-9344027
I'd bump that up to 6% in Beer smith and your hops/IBU's prolly be ok. Use teh Lallemand Koln yeast. It might not meet BJCP guidelines for any competition, but I'd bet it'd be good! In fact I may play around with that! -eheh.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

And it would prolly need a month's age to reach max potential...

 

[easttex]

Lots of good feedback here and I think you all for taking time to respond.

Here are my thoughts:

Amongst other things, I am trying to burn up ingredients I have around the house. I brew with a lot of 2-row and need to burn up about 15lbs of it so I'm sticking with that for now. Ditto the Nugget hops and Nottingham. Lastly, I want to keep this under 6% to be sessionable because it's a beer I foresee myself drinking a lot of if it turns out well. I try to brew most of my beers to be sessionable, actually. I like to drink but I don't like hangovers...

What makes your recipe a stout and not a Dunkelweissen?

Strictly speaking, I am designing an American beer and I am intentionally avoiding the banana-and-clove weizen yeast flavor of a Dunkels. I'm looking for something darker, more bitter, and decidedly American in hop flavor and aroma.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/how-dare-you-american-session-wheat-stout.704193/post-9344027
I'd bump that up to 6% in Beer smith and your hops/IBU's prolly be ok. Use teh Lallemand Koln yeast. It might not meet BJCP guidelines for any competition, but I'd bet it'd be good! In fact I may play around with that! -eheh.

Thank you. Noted.

And it would prolly need a month's age to reach max potential...

No doubt. I'm brewing this for the cold parts of the year so probably at least three months in storage.

Way to many ingredients.

One base malt, wheat. If you biab no additional barley malt necessary, otherwise you'd need some probably.

One crystal malt, if you want it for flavor reasons (which I would recommend in this case), use between 5% and 10% of the grist.

Roasted malt only midnight wheat, 10%. This way, the delicate wheat flavour is not overshadowed by intense roasted barley flavor.

Ibus, don't go above 30, strong bitterness doesn't suit the delicate wheat flavour. 25 ibus would be best imo. No late additions, no dry hopping, noble hops only.

Oats are completely unnecessary here from a recipe perspective but could be useful to promote yeast health at about ten percent of the grist.

I've been trying to figure out the percentage of crystal malt to use. That's what I was looking for. Thank you.




Here's the updated recipe I'll likely brew later this month. I added some flaked wheat just for the hell of it. I use flaked barely it in my Irish stout and my local guy has flaked wheat so why not use some in my wheat beer:

 

[Miraculix]

Miraculix's American Session Wheat Stout

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/how-dare-you-american-session-wheat-stout.704193/post-9344027
I'd bump that up to 6% in Beer smith and your hops/IBU's prolly be ok. Use teh Lallemand Koln yeast. It might not meet BJCP guidelines for any competition, but I'd bet it'd be good! In fact I may play around with that! -eheh.

Completely forgot that one! That was a mighty tasty beer!

If going for American hops, forget about the low ibu thing I wrote above!

Maaaaan that was a nice beer.... I want one now.

 

[G_robertus]

Lots of good advice already. My input:
I like roast complexity, so even for a sub 8% stout I would consider at least two roast malts. I also think chocolate wheat is very one dimensional, so midnight wheat might be as well. Keep at least one other roast malt in my opinion.

Drop the oats, you won't need them probably. You could decrease it a bit if you're really keen on having it or smoothing the beer out. However, I would just replace your wheat and oats with raw or flaked wheat. I combined flaked wheat and barley once because I was low on both and the smoothness was incredible. Wheat malt can have some tartness to it which I don't always like in a stout. You'd have to make it quite sweet to combat that.

I'd go for 40 IBU and more English, but that is a personal preference. You do you. Also consider Verdant yeast for another iteration. I love that stuff in dark beers.

 

[easttex]

Here is the finished beer.

2.7kg White wheat
1.6kg 2-row barley
0.57kg Midnight wheat
0.32kg Caramel 60
0.20kg Flake wheat
0.58kg Rice hulls
17g Nugget Hops (16% AA) at 60 minutes

Mash 50°C for 30mins, then 67°C for 30mins, then mash out at 75°C for ten minutes. Sparge. 60 min boil.

Fermented over once used Nottingham yeast cake.

 

[AlexKay]

I love a happy ending.

 

[easttex]

I love a happy ending.

If nothing else, I wanted to close the loop so this wasn't yet another thread with no ending.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Here is the finished beer.

View attachment 839344


2.7kg White wheat
1.6kg 2-row barley
0.57kg Midnight wheat
0.32kg Caramel 60
0.20kg Flake wheat
0.58kg Rice hulls
17g Nugget Hops (16% AA) at 60 minutes

Mash 50°C for 30mins, then 67°C for 30mins, then mash out at 75°C for ten minutes. Sparge. 60 min boil.

Fermented over once used Nottingham yeast cake.

Nice, nice an dark too. So how's the taste? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[easttex]

Nice, nice an dark too. So how's the taste? Inquiring minds want to know!

Smooth mouthfeel. Fair bitterness without astringency plays well with grainy sweetness from all the wheat. As it lacks roast barley, it drinks more like a dark lager than a stout. It finished slightly underattenuated at 1.018 and wound up at 4% ABV which makes for a very drinkable beer. It's been very easy to drink too many of them since tapping it.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

If say, I replace the Great Western 2-row with Rahr 6-row, do you think that would impact it's delicacy too much?

 

[easttex]

If say, I replace the Great Western 2-row with Rahr 6-row, do you think that would impact it's delicacy too much?

I honestly don't know because I've never brewed with 6-row. Try it and add some roast barely, too. You'll probably make a good beer.