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I’m tired of making grassy gross IPA’s.
- Thread starter Gravelscratcher
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nepatsfan1
You do drugs Danny? All the time
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I would not use the "purified drinking water" at all. it is basically city water run through a few filters and can leave some nasty **** behind. I struggled with IPA's for a long time and I am now on year 9 of brewing. If you use spring water most of them are at 6.0ph around here in new England. Poland Spring is and some beer software will have that profile in it. best advice is what has been given. Water Salts. Especially Gypsum and Calcium Chloride (BTW Balls Crisper is 100% Calcium Chloride if you in a pinch). But do not get frustrated man. We all know you want an awesome beer and like I saw at the HBS I help at. If it was easy everyone would be doing it and never get discouraged. You got this.
OP
OP
Gravelscratcher
Well-Known Member
Not sure how relevant this is, but, I just pulled a sample of my Kolsche (last night), and it was money.
It is cold crashing and I'll probably lager it for 3 weeks or so, before I carb it, but it was dang good straight out of the primary.
Of course there were no dry hops, and no steep/whirlpool additions.
It seems pretty apparent that water chemistry/PH, and maybe dry hopping w/ temps below 60 or above 65 were/are the issues w/ all of my IPA's.
I'm getting ready to do a Stout, but I'm planning my next IPA on deck.
I'll update w/ results, now that I plan to use Bru'n Water (w/ distilled as my base) and make some changes w/ my temperatures at steep and dry hopping.
It is cold crashing and I'll probably lager it for 3 weeks or so, before I carb it, but it was dang good straight out of the primary.
Of course there were no dry hops, and no steep/whirlpool additions.
It seems pretty apparent that water chemistry/PH, and maybe dry hopping w/ temps below 60 or above 65 were/are the issues w/ all of my IPA's.
I'm getting ready to do a Stout, but I'm planning my next IPA on deck.
I'll update w/ results, now that I plan to use Bru'n Water (w/ distilled as my base) and make some changes w/ my temperatures at steep and dry hopping.
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shade0428
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Here's a partial mash Brut ipa hop schedule. I also threw the rest of the 2oz I had on top of the keg! Cheers
Mer-man
Well-Known Member
So how'd it go?
OP
OP
Gravelscratcher
Well-Known Member
I dumped the original grassy batch.
I brewed a stout last, but I have a NEIPA waiting for a good brew day (the stout was great)
I'm going to Colorado for a ski vacation soon, so won't brew again till I return.
I brewed a stout last, but I have a NEIPA waiting for a good brew day (the stout was great)
I'm going to Colorado for a ski vacation soon, so won't brew again till I return.
Troglodytes and maybe gravelscratcher, there are good ipa recipes out there that existed before all the whirlpool/hopstand recipes got so popular. You could try doing an excellent extract IPA kit like a Pliny the Elder clone, Zombie Dust clone, etc. and see if that comes out well. If it does, do the same recipe either as partial mash or all-grain and see if the problem occurs.
estricklin
Well-Known Member
I know this is an old thread, but wanted to bring it back to life for those searching for some answers to this.
I've had some problems with my NEIPAs coming out grassy, and have been trying to nail the problem down.
I've been brewing long enough to know, that a tiny change in water isn't going to cause this type of off flavor (or lack of bright fresh hop flavor). I correct my mash pH, but also don't believe that could cuase this problem. I'm prety careful with transferring to minimize 02 pickup, but again, you'd have to get pretty reckless to absolutely destroy hop flavor in a very short amount of time by using poor transferring techniques.
I moved a couple years ago, and haven't wired up a 220v outlet for my electric brewery, so I've been brewing 5 gallon batches, and just cooling in a water bath instead of using my immersion cooler. I'm pretty sure my grassy flavors were coming from extended steeping times at too high of a temperature. This last batch, I used my electric pot, and was going to use my IC, but at the last minute I was missing a fitting. I cooled the wort in ice water, and only let the steep hops be in the wort for about 20 mines, at 170F. I then made sure not to pour any excess hop material into the fermenters. On day 2 of fermentation I dry hopped. 1 bucket got only 2 oz of dry hops, the other got 6 oz, just trying to rule out the dry hop variable. I'm pretty sure dry hopping wasn't my problem, I have a lot of experience doing that with traditional IPAs and never had a problem, typically do 3 days around 60-68F, I use a bag.
I'll report back at bottling and tasting time to let everyone know how it goes.
I've had some problems with my NEIPAs coming out grassy, and have been trying to nail the problem down.
I've been brewing long enough to know, that a tiny change in water isn't going to cause this type of off flavor (or lack of bright fresh hop flavor). I correct my mash pH, but also don't believe that could cuase this problem. I'm prety careful with transferring to minimize 02 pickup, but again, you'd have to get pretty reckless to absolutely destroy hop flavor in a very short amount of time by using poor transferring techniques.
I moved a couple years ago, and haven't wired up a 220v outlet for my electric brewery, so I've been brewing 5 gallon batches, and just cooling in a water bath instead of using my immersion cooler. I'm pretty sure my grassy flavors were coming from extended steeping times at too high of a temperature. This last batch, I used my electric pot, and was going to use my IC, but at the last minute I was missing a fitting. I cooled the wort in ice water, and only let the steep hops be in the wort for about 20 mines, at 170F. I then made sure not to pour any excess hop material into the fermenters. On day 2 of fermentation I dry hopped. 1 bucket got only 2 oz of dry hops, the other got 6 oz, just trying to rule out the dry hop variable. I'm pretty sure dry hopping wasn't my problem, I have a lot of experience doing that with traditional IPAs and never had a problem, typically do 3 days around 60-68F, I use a bag.
I'll report back at bottling and tasting time to let everyone know how it goes.
I know this is an old thread, but wanted to bring it back to life for those searching for some answers to this.
In my experience this issue is a combination of:
-too much hop matter in the fermenter
-Dry hopping for too long
-Dry hopping at too high of a pH
-Dry hopping too warm
I would recommend using a filter or a good whirlpool to remove as much boil hop matter as possible when you transfer to the fermenter, keep dry hops in contact with beer for no more than 48 hours at about 50F. The warmer your beer, the less time it needs for extraction. I've had good luck with a 24 hour dry hop too.
The pH of the beer during dry hopping should be lower, like 4 - 4.5 ish. This is highly variable and depends on yeast and dry hop load etc. The dry hops will raise pH which will cause bitterness to seem more intense and more harsh. Lowering the pH of the finished beer with an acid addition can bring the hop flavors into focus better.
In my experience this issue is a combination of:
-too much hop matter in the fermenter
-Dry hopping for too long
-Dry hopping at too high of a pH
-Dry hopping too warm
I would recommend using a filter or a good whirlpool to remove as much boil hop matter as possible when you transfer to the fermenter, keep dry hops in contact with beer for no more than 48 hours at about 50F. The warmer your beer, the less time it needs for extraction. I've had good luck with a 24 hour dry hop too.
The pH of the beer during dry hopping should be lower, like 4 - 4.5 ish. This is highly variable and depends on yeast and dry hop load etc. The dry hops will raise pH which will cause bitterness to seem more intense and more harsh. Lowering the pH of the finished beer with an acid addition can bring the hop flavors into focus better.
estricklin
Well-Known Member
Today (day 4 of fermentation) I removed the dry hops, checked gravity and drank the gravity samples. I've been brewing a long time, and I don't recall ever sampling beer after only 4 days of fermentation so this was pretty interesting to me.
The beer with 6 oz of dry hops had a fantastic hop flavor. Very bright and floral with grapefruit and citrus notes. There was definitely a lot of yeast still in suspension but the gravity was 1.010, so fermentation is probably over. I drank every......last......drop of the gravity sample.
The beer with 2 oz of dry hops was pretty similar, but the fresh hop notes were dialed back somewhat. I was pretty surprised that there wasn't more of a difference between 2 oz of dry hops and 6 oz. A person could easily detect the difference in a blind taste test, but I would have guessed maybe the difference between 2 oz and 3-4 oz and not 6.
The beer was still very green obviously, but I didn't detect any offensive grassy notes at all. So far so good, will report back at bottling time.
The beer with 6 oz of dry hops had a fantastic hop flavor. Very bright and floral with grapefruit and citrus notes. There was definitely a lot of yeast still in suspension but the gravity was 1.010, so fermentation is probably over. I drank every......last......drop of the gravity sample.
The beer with 2 oz of dry hops was pretty similar, but the fresh hop notes were dialed back somewhat. I was pretty surprised that there wasn't more of a difference between 2 oz of dry hops and 6 oz. A person could easily detect the difference in a blind taste test, but I would have guessed maybe the difference between 2 oz and 3-4 oz and not 6.
The beer was still very green obviously, but I didn't detect any offensive grassy notes at all. So far so good, will report back at bottling time.
I get too much fruit from my hops - been trying to remedy that lately. Besides the bittering charge at the beginning of the boil, I add all my hops in the last 5 minutes of the boil, then dry hop for 3 days after fermentation is done. I've been trying different hops - want to get back to piney west coast IPA. Also, I only use lager yeast and cold ferment for IPAs these days.
estricklin
Well-Known Member
What a coincidence. I brew a lot of IPAs with lager yeast. I didn't this time, but about 50% of the time I do. I actually used more west coast varieties for hops. Citra, Centennial, Chinook and Cashmere.
I used to dry hop after fermentation is over, but after reading about how compounds like Geraniol are biotransformed during fermentation I decided to try it. Not to mention, it means faster beer.
For the old school classic west coast- why not Chico yeast? Wasn't that like 85% of all yeasts used for the start of the big beer boom? Aka the glory days of west coast ipa? Back when we just called it ipa?
Sure, but for whatever reason, it doesn't finish clean enough (for me). Probably has more to do with my process (oxygen!), but until I change my process I'm sticking with the cleanest yeast flavor I can find.
C hops + Simcoe is the way to go then!
My favorite combo for a classic west coast is Centennial Simcoe Citra with only a light dry hop charge (1-2 oz).
what sort of acid to bring the hop flavours out more? I couldn't find info on the google. I am still new to brewing and unfamiliar with a lot still. I have a grassy IPA on my hands too (life got away from the hops were in my conical WAY too long). I am guessing there is not much to do but if I can work with this even a little it would make a big difference as the grassy flavour is mostly on the aftertaste.
It's more about the pH of the beer DURING the dry hop phase, not something you can use to scrub grassiness after the fact.
These are great combos, I love them. Huge Simcoe fan here. But regarding pine, I would recommend something else.
Apollo - Chinook 50/50. Only hop stand (at 82c) additions, the result was outstanding.
It was a no boil recipe with a hop tea and it was extract, still one of the best beers I've brewed so far. Reminds me of opening a designated thread for this beauty. Half an hour and the beer is in the fermenter, including cleaning everything.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1340398/american-no-boil
Gotcha. I misread that. Thanks
