How much extra would you pay to support a LHBS

[CJ-3]

Good Morning

I was reading this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/what-did-you-get-from-your-lhbs-today.666509/

It got me thinking about how much extra I would be willing to pay to support a local business.

I feel since there is a LHBS within 10 minutes of me I should try to support them. If I can get ingredients there within 10% above what I pay online with shipping I would be ok with that.

How about you all? How much extra are you ok with paying to use a LHBS as opposed to online?

 

[RPh_Guy]

For me, that depends entirely on their quality of service.

 

[Pappers_]

I used to live 10 minutes from an LHBS and I bought most everything there. Convenience is valuable, in my opinion. When I first started buying base grains in bulk, I even bought my bags from the LHBS.

I now live thirty to sixty minutes, depending on traffic, from a homebrew store, so the convenience factor is out. I buy my base grains via a club group buy, and most of my hops, yeast and specialty grains from an online store that is geographically not far so shipping is reasonable and quick. Sometimes, if I haven't planned ahead, I will make the trip to the homebrew store, but I try to think ahead and order online.

 

[Jag75]

I'm all for helping local businesses. I'm not sure how much more I pay for stuff there compared to morebeer. I even order stuff from my Aunts homebrew store in New Mexico. I live in California so it costs me more then my local HBS. I try and give her business here and there just because. I like the guys who run my LHBS and not having my own mill gives me a reason to go over and give them my business. We exchange beer and I never can go in and walk out 5 min later because we just chit chat . My LHBS is about 40 minutes away .

 

[Amadeo38]

I also pay between 10-15% more to shop local for most things. I do not buy hops at my LHBS because of the insane discounted bulk prices from places like YVH or HopsDirect. My freezer is FULL.

I do purchase both base and specialty grains at my LHBS, and when I’ve used my yeast cultures too many generations, I get fresh from there too. The markup on hardware and tubing is a bit much, but I’m usually too lazy to try to find the right thing online so I give preference to what’s right in front of me in my hands.

Also, to the customer service quality point of view - that would be a big factor also. Since my LHBS is comprised of employees who are in our brew club and most of whom are my friends, I like going there. Sometimes I just go to have a beer on a Friday - even when I don’t need anything. Tomorrow they’re hosting a Bottle Share!

 

[Robert65]

I also have LHBS about 10 minutes away, so it just makes sense to get everything I can there. For the most part what I get online is what I can't get there, but there are exceptions.

I get hops usually from Hop Heaven or Hops Direct, because I can't beat either quality or price, and LHBS just doesn't carry the whole cone hops I want, nor do they order from those sellers. But it's ultimately product, not process, that's the determinant, especially with shipping figured in.

Many things I might get online because LHBS doesn't regularly stock them I can ultimately get there anyway. Owner is willing to special order anything his regular distributors have. For example, I want a couple of sacks of malt he normally wouldn't have. I could have gotten them from NB with free shipping. But just the other day I had him put them on his next BSG order. I actually don't know if I'll pay more or less. But not only will he get the business, I'd actually rather pick up there than wrestle with 110 lbs of malt in a crate on my porch.

I definitely go online when the price break is irresistible. Like iodophor for $59.99 a gallon with free shipping, compared to $20 a quart at LHBS.

But in general, if the price difference won't kill me, I support the LHBS, because I want them to still be there. The convenience of last minute items just 10 minutes away (even Amazon can't deliver that fast!) the idea of a family business, the resource a shop provides as a hub to the community, are all considerations. There's another shop about 20+ miles away with some different inventory, and I'll often even use them before going online, for the same reasons. But that's usually small purchases (e.g. Intertap faucet parts) where my gas money and time is still worth less than shipping costs, and only if I don't mind the detour.

 

[kevin58]

I have no idea the differences in price between my LHBS and online retailers. Supporting local businesses is too important to me so I've never bothered comparing. They put a lot back into the homebrew community in town and they take care of their customers without question. That in itself has value beyond a few dollars and cents.

 

[mongoose33]

I buy as much there as I reasonably can. I also get that when some people are early in their life cycle, i.e., have young kids or similar responsibilities, saving a nickel here and there is important.

My LHBS is 22 miles away across the river in Dubuque. One issue is that it's not just the higher prices (which aren't always higher or unreasonable, but often are), but that in Dubuque, I pay 7 percent sales tax.

In Wisconsin, malt, hops, and yeast are considered food, and here they are not taxed. So the larger purchases of a several bags of malt come from Ritebrew. But that's primarily base malts. Specialty malts I buy in smaller amounts are better filled by the LHBS.

*****

IMO, it's worth supporting the LHBS as much as possible because when I'm out of a particular hop I need, or yeast, or whatever, he's there. Accessibility to ingredients plus various "it's an emergency!" hardware needs is all the reason I need to hope he stays in business and is successful.

 

[Soulshine2]

Good Morning

I was reading this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/what-did-you-get-from-your-lhbs-today.666509/

It got me thinking about how much extra I would be willing to pay to support a local business.

I feel since there is a LHBS within 10 minutes of me I should try to support them. If I can get ingredients there within 10% above what I pay online with shipping I would be ok with that.

How about you all? How much extra are you ok with paying to use a LHBS as opposed to online?

depends on quality of service and the inventory.
I'd be good with 10% over online prices + shipping...sometimes the convenience is well worth the cost.

 

[BrewMan13]

I go as much as possible. I do buy hops in bulk online, along with other odds and ends. But I'll pay more for most things to support the local place. Especially critical now to support small homebrew businesses with homebrewing on the decline on average.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Zero. My LHBS is within a few minutes. I've given them several chances, but no more. Person working there, the owner?, acted as if I was bothering him. I believe he was napping in the store. Yeast had very old dates. Bins were sitting open. Dates on other items were old.

There is another LHBS about 1 hour away. If I am in that area and I need something I will stop. Prices are high, but their service, products and friendly attitude are worth it (at least to me). As an example, when I walk in the store the owner, whom I've known for close to 20 years, says "Hi" to me by name.

 

[mongoose33]

Zero. My LHBS is within a few minutes. I've given them several chances, but no more. Person working there, the owner?, acted as if I was bothering him. I believe he was napping in the store. Yeast had very old dates. Bins were sitting open. Dates on other items were old.

There is another LHBS about 1 hour away. If I am in that area and I need something I will stop. Prices are high, but their service, products and friendly attitude are worth it (at least to me). As an example, when I walk in the store the owner, whom I've known for close to 20 years, says "Hi" to me by name.

My son lives in a city where there's only one LHBS in the area. The owner seems a jerk, his wife is fine. My son will go into the store, ask for this or that, and the owner will ask what he's going to make with it. My son will respond, and the owner will proceed to tell him he should do it THIS way, instead of the way my son is planning.

My son tried to get a double-crush from him, wouldn't do it. The guy, as near as I can tell, is only in business because he has no competition. Soon as that shows up, I suspect he's toast.

******

If we're going to pay higher bricks-and-mortar prices, there has to be compensation for that in the form of accessibility to ingredients and hardware, advice if needed, and appreciation for the business.

My LHBS owner is great; I walk in with a list of things I need, he gets them, and that's that. If I want advice or opinion on something, he'll give it to me, but he's not telling me what to do.

I like that in a LHBS owner.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

It's a shame, but some stores have zero customer appreciation. I guess they are too stupid to understand/realize without customers they have no business.

Remember, as consumers, we vote with our money. Don't like the store, the way we were treated at the store, etc, then vote with our money by shopping at another location.

I know this thread isn't about MoreBeer, but I really like MB for their customer service. When something is wrong, yes mistakes do happen, they are quick to resolve. No arguments, no hassles, etc.

There was another store with a decent guarantee. That is until the guarantee was needed. They wanted a copy of my original receipt. OK, I have that. They also expected me to pay for return shipping even though it was faulty product. By the time I paid for shipping I could have just bought a new item. No thanks. They've lost my business.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I buy all of my grains, yeast, and most of my hops, plus all the little ancillary ingredients at my LHBS. They have great selection and great service and are only about a 15 minute detour on my drive home from work.
The manager gives a 10% discount to the local club members.
I buy some hardware there, but often the difference in price on big ticket items is enough to drive me online.

But for consumable ingredients, including sacks of grain, it's my LHBS. I want them to stay in business. I can't tell you how many time on brew day or the day before I realize I'm out of something and have to make an emergency trip (the manager has even made house-call deliveries to me since he lives in the same town).

I don't know how much I could save by going online and I don't really care.

 

[El Nino]

If it's reasonably priced and around the same price, I buy from the LHBS.

I get everything from there minus hops and yeast, for some reason the LHBS is almost 50% more expensive when it comes to those, so I get that from YVH or Amazon. If it were 10-15% marked up I would consider getting them from the LHBS.

 

[Jag75]

If it's reasonably priced and around the same price, I buy from the LHBS.

I get everything from there minus hops and yeast, for some reason the LHBS is almost 50% more expensive when it comes to those, so I get that from YVH or Amazon. If it were 10-15% marked up I would consider getting them from the LHBS.

Hmmm , you must live on an island lol

 

[specialkayme]

Generally speaking, it depends on (A) the quality of service as well as convenience factor, (B) the inventory, and (C) the knowledge base of the individuals working at the store. I'm willing to pay roughly 5% more for each one (so a maximum of 15% probably).

No LHBS has ever been rude to me. But there are many that operate odd hours, at least for me. One near me opens at 11 am and closes at 6 pm. It's sometimes difficult for me to get there. Another one only offers "pick up" (i.e. no browsing) from 4-6 pm, and browsing on Fridays and Saturdays. To me, if I have to figure out a week in advance how I'm going to get my schedule to line up to make it to the LHBS, I just buy online.

For knowledge base, there are so many times I've gone into the LHBS where they had no idea what I was talking about. They employed a local college kid that brewed 5 batches to ring things up. When I ask for an erlenmeyer flask, or ask for a good substitute for Maris Otter and they give me a blank look, I just move on. I brought a 1970's mead recipe into one shop and asked for help on some of the ingredients they asked for (Urea and a few other things that aren't used anymore) because I thought it'd be neat to brew a 50 year old recipe, and they had no idea what literally any of the ingredients were except for the honey. They told me not to brew it. I walked out the door.

For inventory, it's a must for me. I went to one LHBS with a recipe, and they had to "substitute" 80% of the ingredients for things they had in stock (C60, Golden Promise, a hop that I can't remember right now), which means I brewed an entirely different beer.

But oddly enough the larger the inventory, the cheaper the prices. I prefer to drive 1 hr away to a big homebrew supply store, driving by 4 smaller ones. Their prices are cheaper than many online retailers, and they have literally EVERYTHING I could need. Amazing inventory, fantastic prices, amazing customer service, and a top notch knowledge base of employees (some of which work in the brewery next door). Tough to say no, but can't always find the time to make the drive.

 

[Jtvann]

Im probably a little different than most. The closest home brew shop for me is 4 hours away. I am near one right now, and was going to buy in bulk just because I wont have to pay shipping.

I was quoted 200 dollars for a 50lb bag of DME, and 63 dollars for 55lb of 2 row. After those quotes I quit asking. I'll pay more, but I'm not dumb.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Im probably a little different than most. The closest home brew shop for me is 4 hours away. I am near one right now, and was going to buy in bulk just because I wont have to pay shipping.

I was quoted 200 dollars for a 50lb bag of DME, and 63 dollars for 55lb of 2 row. After those quotes I quit asking. I'll pay more, but I'm not dumb.

These quotes are high (IMO ridiculous). 2 row from Briess is what? $30 to 35?

I know folks have to put food on their tables, but it's my choice if I help them or not. Businesses are in business to take our money, it's our job to keep our money. This is why I participate in group grain purchases.

Years and years ago I run a business out of my house. My markup was, at the max 5%, whereas a 100% markup, or more, is IMO, being greedy or taking advantage.

Please, no flames, evil looks, etc as I realize and acknowledge the costs of doing business. However, there are better methods than stiffing people.

 

[AkTom]

My lhbs is 150 miles away. I buy all my ingredients there. Shipping is a killer to Alaska.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

My lhbs is 150 miles away. I buy all my ingredients there. Shipping is a killer to Alaska.

Doh! Time to malt your own, grown your own, harvest yeast, etc. Or, believe those living in Alaska can see Russia. Simply walk to Russia and purchase supplies (sarcastic attempt at humor...)

 

[seatazzz]

Here in my little part of Washington there are several LHBS within about an hour's drive of my house; the one I patronize most is a scary drive over a small pass out to a tiny little town named Snoqualmie. They don't have a great selection of equipment, but their grain prices can't be beat; Great Western two row at $39.99 for 55lbs? Hell yes. She also usually has some off-the-wall hops at a decent price, and also keeps outdated yeast in a bin for anyone to scrounge through and take for free. There's another shop in Puyallup run by a former employee of the biggest LHBS in our area that closed over two years ago, that I will hit up if I'm in the area and am not buying grain in bulk. He's also usually a drop-off point for local competitions, and more than that he was the one who really got me started in this obsession.

Hops and random equipment I buy online; I do love going shopping, not only because I can see and touch what I'm buying, but more for the social aspect of it. Both of the proprietors I usually frequent are avid homebrewers, and love to just stand around and chat and give advice when needed.

 

[Still Brewn]

I have a great store right up the street, I buy what ever I can from him. It is a really small shop and stacked floor to ceiling windows most everything I need. I did buy hops from Hops direct this spring and started growing my own. But other than that I have bought almost every ingredient from him for over 12 years for the exact reason I don't shop at walmart. If I don't support my local businesses they won't be there when I need them and that money will not stay in my local economy and support my friends, family and neighbors. It will go into the pockets of somebody with more money than all of the people in my town put together and will do nothing to support the people, repair the roads and build the schools needed here. I hate to support any company that is not a positive contributor to the local economy. There will always be times that I have to break my rule because what I need is not available but that doesn't happen very often.
But back to the original question.... how much would I pay probably up to 25%. But with that said I will attempt to do some negotiating. Most thing in the local shop are between 5% and 10% more some things are cheaper.

 

[Conehead]

No lhbs here, population 75,000. Closest is in Toronto, which is 90 min away. I would definitely support a local shop.

 

[tellyho]

I live 10 min from my LHBS and am admittedly a cheap bastard. Despite that, I buy most ingredients (except hops - damned NEIPAS) from my LHBS. It's convenient, prices are not terrible and requires less planning ahead on my part.

The manager is also good about running a grain discount a couple times a year for basically wholesale. Great way to maintain loyalty.

 

[Soulshine2]

I buy all of my grains, yeast, and most of my hops, plus all the little ancillary ingredients at my LHBS. They have great selection and great service and are only about a 15 minute detour on my drive home from work.
The manager gives a 10% discount to the local club members.
I buy some hardware there, but often the difference in price on big ticket items is enough to drive me online.

But for consumable ingredients, including sacks of grain, it's my LHBS. I want them to stay in business. I can't tell you how many time on brew day or the day before I realize I'm out of something and have to make an emergency trip (the manager has even made house-call deliveries to me since he lives in the same town).

I don't know how much I could save by going online and I don't really care.

LHBS housecall delivery?? thats awesome service !!

 

[Soulshine2]

I live 10 min from my LHBS and am admittedly a cheap bastard. Despite that, I buy most ingredients (except hops - damned NEIPAS) from my LHBS. It's convenient, prices are not terrible and requires less planning ahead on my part.

The manager is also good about running a grain discount a couple times a year for basically wholesale. Great way to maintain loyalty.

that kind of sale boosts sales and keeps their inventory fresh.

 

[brewbama]

The local health food store has a corner dedicated to homebrew. I like to use them when possible but they don’t always have what I want such as whole hops or liquid yeast. I don’t blame them — they have to turn their inventory and I might me the only guy in Madison County that uses whole hops. They’ll order for me but at 30 min one way it’s just more convenient to have the FedEx guy mis-deliver down the street and me go house to house looking for my package on the John Deere than run downtown. ...but if they have a pound of Medium Crystal I’ll buy it from them which gives me an excuse to turn the corner to brewery row and stop in for a pint or three. As an added bonus one of the breweries has an excellent chef and another one has a wood-fired pizza joint co-located so lunch is usually part of the outing.

 

[eric19312]

I don't mind 30-40 minute drive to LHBS and am happy to give them my business as much as possible. That normally means they get most of my grains business. I am not too picky about the maltster and use simple grain bills.

But with yeast I'm either using US-05 or splurging on liquid yeast and want something obscure and want it fresh as possible. I will look at the liquid yeast selection and if I can buy something when I'm there but I normally want 2-3 packs of very fresh yeast of some relatively obscure variety. It usually doesn't happen and I just brew with US-05 which I get for about $4 a pack online and by 10 packs at a time and keep in the fridge. I'm also a cheap bastard and reuse that US-05 for up to 5 or more batches of beer...

Hops are also an issue. Typical batch has a minimum of a pound of hops. IPAs might range up to double that. Online by the pound pricing ranges $10 - $30 and I tend to brew in the low end of that range. LHBS sells 1oz packs and I'm not even sure what they are priced at because I'm not opening 16 packs of hops on a brew day.

 

[Robert65]

LHBS housecall delivery?? thats awesome service !!

My LHBS owner or an employee has been known to make an emergency housecall, like when somebody's finishing a brewday and something's gone horribly wrong with the starter and they need yeast fast. It would be no great trouble in my case because the owner and I live in the same area. I've never called him on this, but it's great to know they are that customer oriented.

 

[OpenSights]

My lhbs is 150 miles away. I buy all my ingredients there. Shipping is a killer to Alaska.

Do they ship to you Tom? My old LHBS would ship, but they were 3 minutes away, 5 with traffic or if you had to stop at the light.

Other than deals on Craigslist I bought everything from them unless they didn’t carry it. They were open for 23 years. About two or three years ago we had 4 LHBS. The competition between them and the internet closed all but one. So I’m hell bent on keeping them open!

Our club now meets at the remaining one, along with another club, just different night. The owner is a great guy and anytime I stop in I always buy something even if I don’t really need it anytime soon. Honestly, I’ve only bought 1 55# bag of 2 row and 15# DME online only because they were insane deals.

I don’t shop there as much as my old store simply because of distance, not that it’s that far, 20-25 minutes.

 

[shoengine]

I also pay between 10-15% more to shop local for most things. I do not buy hops at my LHBS because of the insane discounted bulk prices from places like YVH or HopsDirect. My freezer is FULL.

I do purchase both base and specialty grains at my LHBS, and when I’ve used my yeast cultures too many generations, I get fresh from there too. The markup on hardware and tubing is a bit much, but I’m usually too lazy to try to find the right thing online so I give preference to what’s right in front of me in my hands.

Also, to the customer service quality point of view - that would be a big factor also. Since my LHBS is comprised of employees who are in our brew club and most of whom are my friends, I like going there. Sometimes I just go to have a beer on a Friday - even when I don’t need anything. Tomorrow they’re hosting a Bottle Share!

I have pretty much the same exact experience as this, down to the employees being in the homebrew club. Pretty much the only thing I don't buy there is bulk hops. They just don't have the selection in bulk I need, and I usually buy pounds when they go on sale.

I came in with a couple corny caps that needed replacement PRVs a few days ago. One of them was an easy replacement, the other had a threaded bung that neither of the PRVs on the shelf would fit. The owner ran into the back and brought out a used corny cap with a good PRV and gave it to me.

 

[OpenSights]

I forgot to mention, our old store would a 10% off coupon if you attended a meeting and for every $750 spent you got a $50 gift certificate.

Our new store gives 10% every purchase for our club members.

 

[Still Brewn]

Years and years ago I run a business out of my house. My markup was, at the max 5%, whereas a 100% markup, or more, is IMO, being greedy or taking advantage.

No flames from me, I understand the "put food an the table" aspect. I've worked for myself all my life until a few.... damn it's been 5 years already... anyway. The wife doesn't let me work now but the point is in all the businesses I've owned my mark-up was nowhere near 10% more like 100%-500% but it also wasn't retail and the discounts from vendors was 25% to 75% under retail. That has probably changed in the last 5 years with the growth of online retailers. If you're not making a profit on everything you sell as a small business you won't stay in business long unless you are moving massive quantity of items but massive quantities require more workforce lowering that profit margin even more. It also tends to lower the quality of service. It wasn't greed that drove those mark-ups it was necessity. It th automotive repair and customs shop I owned the staff I required to perform the services we offer had to have an education and needed classes every year to keep updated on new technology. Plus we had to keep computers and equipment updated and working. We were still at the lower end for in terms of our prices but managed to take a struggling business and Turn It into a business that supported 7 families.

 

[bracconiere]

for a while i was trying to support the LHBS, buying my crystals from them....still bought bulk base grains from morebeer. Then i started malting my own, now i just support the local feed store and YVH....

(the LHBS shut down a couple years ago)

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

No flames from me, I understand the "put food an the table" aspect. I've worked for myself all my life until a few.... damn it's been 5 years already... anyway. The wife doesn't let me work now but the point is in all the businesses I've owned my mark-up was nowhere near 10% more like 100%-500% but it also wasn't retail and the discounts from vendors was 25% to 75% under retail. That has probably changed in the last 5 years with the growth of online retailers. If you're not making a profit on everything you sell as a small business you won't stay in business long unless you are moving massive quantity of items but massive quantities require more workforce lowering that profit margin even more. It also tends to lower the quality of service. It wasn't greed that drove those mark-ups it was necessity. It th automotive repair and customs shop I owned the staff I required to perform the services we offer had to have an education and needed classes every year to keep updated on new technology. Plus we had to keep computers and equipment updated and working. We were still at the lower end for in terms of our prices but managed to take a struggling business and Turn It into a business that supported 7 families.

I hear you brother.

I know this is off topic, but I refuse to take my auto to the local dealer from whom I purchased it. Why? More than once I caught them lying about needed service as in "Your brakes are shot! You really shouldn't be driving this vehicle unless the brakes are fixed!". This was 3 months after having a complete brake job at a service garage. I refuse the dealers offer, take my auto to another service garage (not the place that did the brake job) and have them check the breaks. Outcome? Brakes are fine.

I've realized a while ago we should be given cars for free. Why? On going maintenance is where the real money is made.

 

[JimRausch]

Reading through the thread, it seems like those who have a truly LHBS (ie. within 10-15 miles) tend not to use them as much as those of us with a 'local' that is 40 miles or more away. Interesting. I know I support my 'local' because if it went out of business then I'd have to do all my shopping online, including paying shipping costs on 50 lb. sacks. No thank you. Plus I like my local guy.

 

[JimRausch]

Reading through the thread, it seems like those who have a truly LHBS (ie. within 10-15 miles) tend not to use them as much as those of us with a 'local' that is 40 miles or more away. Interesting. I know I support my 'local' because if it went out of business then I'd have to do all my shopping online, including paying shipping costs on 50 lb. sacks. Shipping to rural Maine may not be quite as bad as Alaska and Hawaii, but it's no cheapo. No thank you. Plus I like my local guy.

 

[Bobby_M]

These quotes are high (IMO ridiculous). 2 row from Briess is what? $30 to 35?

I know folks have to put food on their tables, but it's my choice if I help them or not. Businesses are in business to take our money, it's our job to keep our money. This is why I participate in group grain purchases.

Years and years ago I run a business out of my house. My markup was, at the max 5%, whereas a 100% markup, or more, is IMO, being greedy or taking advantage.

Please, no flames, evil looks, etc as I realize and acknowledge the costs of doing business. However, there are better methods than stiffing people.

Sorry for the flames but making 5% profit out of your house is not running a business. It's more like a hobby.

Briess 2 row is about $31 plus freight from most distributors. It has to be received, checked in, broken down and put away. When someone buys it, it has to be handled again, checked out, credit card processing fees, POS sytem fees. That's just the direct cost of that transaction. There's also rent, air conditioning, lighting and product loss. How many dollars of profit is fair for the business owner?

 

[JimRausch]

Reading through the thread, it seems like those who have a truly LHBS (ie. within 10-15 miles) tend not to use them as much as those of us with a 'local' that is 40 miles or more away. Interesting. I know I support my 'local' because if it went out of business then I'd have to do all my shopping online, including paying shipping costs on 50 lb. sacks. Shipping to rural Maine may not be quite as bad as Alaska and Hawaii, but it's no cheapo. No thank you. Plus I like my local guy.
Sorry about the practically duplicate post. Tries to edit, but computer acting a little wonky tonight. Thunderstorms in the area.