How many don't rehydrate their yeast?

[rhys333]

the problem is that until the yeast cells are rehydrated, they're unable to regulate the amount of sugars passing across their membrane, which can lead to autolysis.

I have the same problem unless I rehydrate with coffee

 

[Zekk]

I've done both and didn't see much of a difference. For the beer I'm brewing tomorrow I'll probably rehydrate if I remember to have the sterile water ready in time.

 

[kombat]

I find my fermentations kick off much faster when I rehydrate the yeast. I also don't bother with "sterile" water, I just use water straight from my tap, mixing the hot and cold until I get the target temperature (85° F). However, I'm on municipal water, so our water is treated for sanitation. If you're on well water, you should probably continue with a boil and cool protocol.

 

[cyberbrew]

I re-hydrate, it's a good excuse for me to use my diy stir plate to "Gently stir for 30 minutes...".

 

[moreb33rplz]

Read "Yeast." According to biologists much smarter than me, the problem is that until the yeast cells are rehydrated, they're unable to regulate the amount of sugars passing across their membrane, which can lead to autolysis. Once they're rehydrated with plain water, they're much better able to regulate sugar uptake across their membrane.

Or something like that. I trust the guy with the multi-million dollar yeast company and the Ph.D.

I've got the book. He just doesn't give any detail, and I'm sure there is more too it than 'half of them die every time'.

My guess is that certain strains, certain conditions, etc, all have an effect, and the worst case scenario is that half of the cells die.

 

[moreb33rplz]

Ok, good lord you guys are picky with your scientific data to back facts up all the time!

http://seanterrill.com/2011/04/01/dry-yeast-viability/

https://bkyeast.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/more-on-yeast-rehydration/

Ok. I'm convinced. Damn.

 

[slym2none]

I find my fermentations kick off much faster when I rehydrate the yeast. I also don't bother with "sterile" water, I just use water straight from my tap, mixing the hot and cold until I get the target temperature (85° F). However, I'm on municipal water, so our water is treated for sanitation. If you're on well water, you should probably continue with a boil and cool protocol.

Or if you have heavy chlorine/chloramines in your tap water. Those things are made to kill stuff just like our little yeastie-beastie friends.

 

[hopkincr]

I've never re-hydrated, nor have I ever made a starter. Dry yeast has always worked great and if my reclaimed yeast has been in the fridge more than a month, I just pitch two mason jars.

 

[joshesmusica]

I have a question for all those who never rehydrate:

How many BJCP judged competitions have you won with those beers?

 

[dmtaylor]

I have a question for all those who never rehydrate:

How many BJCP judged competitions have you won with those beers?

I'll count them up momentarily.....

EDIT:

1st place - 0
2nd place - 3
3rd place - 2

I'll also say that I might not be the best brewer, only three 1st places in my career so far (two with liquid yeast, and one a wild ferment with nothing pitched!), but I do have nearly 20 awards total. It makes sense to me that about 1/4 of my awards were from non-rehydrated dry yeast, as I use dry yeast about that often. I've yet to win a Best of Show, but I have recently achieved Second Best of Show (liquid yeast in this case).

http://brixies.bobbo.net/brixtoberfest/

The point is, to the naysayers, it doesn't seem to make any difference whether you use dry or liquid, rehydrated or not. Make a couple of batches side by side if you want. You either won't be able to taste a difference, or, as some experiments have shown, you might even prefer the non-rehydrated one!!!

 

[joshesmusica]

I'll count them up momentarily.....



EDIT:



1st place - 0

2nd place - 3

3rd place - 2



I'll also say that I might not be the best brewer, only three 1st places in my career so far (two with liquid yeast, and one a wild ferment with nothing pitched!), but I do have nearly 20 awards total. It makes sense to me that about 1/4 of my awards were from non-rehydrated dry yeast, as I use dry yeast about that often. I've yet to win a Best of Show, but I have recently achieved Second Best of Show (liquid yeast in this case).



http://brixies.bobbo.net/brixtoberfest/



The point is, to the naysayers, it doesn't seem to make any difference whether you use dry or liquid, rehydrated or not. Make a couple of batches side by side if you want. You either won't be able to taste a difference, or, as some experiments have shown, you might even prefer the non-rehydrated one!!!

Nice! I really wasn't asking to sound cynical, just to clarify, I'm actually interested what the results are, as that's the only thing that's really important obviously. And the bjcp is an important clarification, as I've been around a couple of non judged comps and the winners were more about popularity contest (either they had more friends there, were more sanguine and friendly than the others, or it was a popular style) than anything.

Are there more out there who have won under bjcp competitions without rehydrating?

One more point of discussion, or at least a follow-up to this discussion is, if we know that we are losing around 50% of the viable yeasts with a direct pitch, and yet bjcp qualified judges aren't able to pick up any off-flavors, then maybe it's time to start doing more in-depth studies into pitch count. If ~100b cells are getting the job done without creating to many off-flavors, then why do all the calcs suggest 200b at the moment (numbers just thrown out there obviously). Are the yeast just that much healthier than when the calcs were designed?

 

[dmtaylor]

If ~100b cells are getting the job done without creating to many off-flavors, then why do all the calcs suggest 200b at the moment (numbers just thrown out there obviously). Are the yeast just that much healthier than when the calcs were designed?

Calculators are calculators. They are developed by humans, inherently flawed, who make conservative judgments. I've heard it repeated many times now that the standard yeast calculators are overly conservative and you don't need to use as much as they say. Maybe half as much will suffice. Maybe one third. Maybe one eighth! Play around and see what works. In the case of dry yeast, we can afford to sacrifice half the population with no ill effects. I also usually see a very fast start with dry yeast, faster than with liquid. Non-rehydrated. It's worth experimenting.

 

[ncbrewer]

I'll count them up momentarily.....

EDIT:

1st place - 0
2nd place - 3
3rd place - 2
QUOTE]

What was your pitching temperature, if you remember? I ask because Fermentis instructions say pitch at 68F or higher, which is the main reason I rehydrate.

 

[dmtaylor]

What was your pitching temperature, if you remember? I ask because Fermentis instructions say pitch at 68F or higher, which is the main reason I rehydrate.

I don't know how this is relevant, but... I also cannot answer your question, unfortunately. Pitch temperature is the one variable that I have not tracked carefully over the past 16 years. I need to start doing that -- thanks for the reminder. What I can tell you is that *typically* -- not always, but typically -- I leave my wort to cool down the last 30 degrees or so (from about 90 or 100 F or whatever) overnight or over many hours, and delay pitching until temperatures have gone below 70 F, for ales. For lagers, I would never pitch until temperature got down to around fermentation temp, around 50 F plus or minus a couple degrees, and in that case, the W-34/70 is the only dry lager yeast I have ever had good success with personally. Pitch rate for that yeast would be two packs for 5 gallons instead of just the usual one pack for ales. Still takes off like the dickens within about 24 hours. Average score I have achieved so far with that yeast is a 37 -- pretty tasty.