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Homemade PBW Recipe

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RPh_Guy

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The seller from whom I got mine is now gone, but these are similar:

Percarbonate $48.90 / 25lbs
https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Percarbonate-UNCOATED-Min-Purity/dp/B010CEGYN0/

Metasilicate $21 / 5 lbs
https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Metasilicate-Pentahydrate-Min-Purity/dp/B0762WK8ZR/
(but it's a lot cheaper per pound if you buy 25lbs)

So, it's $2.33/lb with 5lb metasilicate (using 1:5 metasilicate : percarbonate to make math easier) or $2.00/lb with 25lb metasilicate.
PBW is actually on sale at MoreBeer at a super low price today only of $3.06/lb (regularly $4.60/lb) if you buy 50lbs.

I use about 2-3 ounces total for 5-7 gallons. Maybe more or less depending on how dirty the vessel is.
 
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Bigdaddyale

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3-4 parts Sodium percarbonate
1 part Sodium metasilicate
1 squirt Jet Dry liquid

I buy in bulk from Amazon and mix them when needed. Jet Dry is readily available at local stores too.
It's a LOT less expensive than PBW.

There are rare instances when something will need a quick scrub with a normal sponge.

I also use BKF as needed to return stainless to it's original luster, and citric acid as needed for passivation.
In the off chance you're using any aluminum, remember that you don't want to strip the dull oxide layer.

I've tried using more simple mixtures but they are noticably less effective. YMMV.

:mug:
How do you mix the stuff?
 

Brooothru

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No. I'm not sure what a good test would be since this quickly removes all visible organic matter.
Chemically it has all the same components as PBW without anything conflicting (unlike the original recipe in this thread), so I expect the performance is similar.

Like professional breweries, I follow it with an acid rinse to remove inorganic residue. (Water rinse before and after each step.)
Do you use Star San or SaniClean as the acid rinse, and if so why the water rinse after the acid? The reason I ask is that the spec sheet says to air dry, no rinse necessary. Just curious as to your thoughts.

Brooo Brother
 

RPh_Guy

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Do you use Star San or SaniClean as the acid rinse, and if so why the water rinse after the acid? The reason I ask is that the spec sheet says to air dry, no rinse necessary. Just curious as to your thoughts.

Brooo Brother
We're talking about cleaning.

For the acid rinse I use citric acid. It's cheap and effective. The Milk Stone remover that @h22lude mentioned is phosphoric acid with a surfactant. I guess maybe you could use Star San (and rinse after).

For sanitization (immediately before use) you would not rinse, regardless of what sanitizer you use.

Cheers
 

Robert65

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I use milkstone remover. Cheap (~$14/gallon, you use 1 fl oz to 6 gallons water,) and the surfactant makes it more effective, especially as an acid cleaner and not just a rinse.
 

Robert65

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I made a batch based on the formulation discussed at the top of the thread. Different products, but all the components fall into the recommended ranges. 7.2# Ecos Oxo Brite, 4# TSP/90, and 45 oz Seventh Generation dishwasher detergent. Decided to try it before I completely run out of PBW. It worked as well as or better than the genuine article (dissolved more readily, it seemed to me, and some grunge dissolved almost instantly.) This stuff and my trusty milkstone remover, and I've got a very effective and economical cleaning regimen. Cheers, HBT!
 

Brooothru

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We're talking about cleaning.

For the acid rinse I use citric acid. It's cheap and effective. The Milk Stone remover that @h22lude mentioned is phosphoric acid with a surfactant. I guess maybe you could use Star San (and rinse after).

For sanitization (immediately before use) you would not rinse, regardless of what sanitizer you use.

Cheers
Got it. I miss read the 'cleaning' part. Do you find straight percarbonate superior to non-scented Oxy? I've been trying 1:4 TSP to Clear Oxyclean with a squirt of 7th Generation liquid. Not as good as PBW but doesn't break the bank.

Brooo Brother
 

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I have read a great many comments (in many different places) that agents such as Jet-Dry can be very damaging to the head retention of your beers. I don't have personal experience or any empirical data on this. Probably best to not take a chance and avoid it unless/until someone can show some results that it is harmless.
 

RPh_Guy

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I have read a great many comments (in many different places) that agents such as Jet-Dry can be very damaging to the head retention of your beers. I don't have personal experience or any empirical data on this. Probably best to not take a chance and avoid it unless/until someone can show some results that it is harmless.
As mentioned, I do an acid rinse afterwards, which removes any residue from it. The head on my beer is fine.

Look up info on how to remove the "rinse aid" film. People recommend vinegar (acid).

:mug:
 

Gozie Boy

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As mentioned, I do an acid rinse afterwards, which removes any residue from it. The head on my beer is fine.

Look up info on how to remove the "rinse aid" film. People recommend vinegar (acid).

:mug:
Thanks - just the type of info. I'm interested in, and apparently had missed. I assume a StarSans rinse might also take care of this? Merry Christmas!
 

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If I'm reading this correctly, and have the OxiClean pictured, I can use this and this alone for cleaning followed with a good rinse afterwards. Have I got this right? How much OxiClean should be used per gallon of water? Thanks for any help you can give! Slainté
IMG_20191231_111126574.jpeg
 

RPh_Guy

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@IrishOdell
OxiClean (active ingredient sodium percarbonate) is what I would consider the bare minimum for a cleanser.

When using OxiClean, you should use the one that says FREE, which does not contain dye or perfume. The amount you need may vary by how dirty your equipment is, but 1oz/gal is a reasonable starting point.

Any of the mixtures discussed in this thread are more effective than sodium percarbonate alone.
 

IrishOdell

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It appears that I have the wrong OxiClean then. Back to the drawing board!Thanks for the info!
 

Gozie Boy

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I've made some homemade PBW, and it was super simple to put together.

My local grocery store has its own version of Oxiclean Free (identical recipe -- no perfumes or chlorine), so I grabbed that and a 4lb bag of TSP/90.

Easy mixture of 3.5lbs Oxi-free to 1.5lbs TSP/90, mixed together thoroughly. I use it all the time, no issues whatsoever.
Curious how you mix these up, so that they're well integrated. Just dump in a bucket and shake? (I would think that this would not mix well). Or, mix a little of each, alternating, and close/shake at various point along the way? Or something else?
 

Robert65

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Curious how you mix these up, so that they're well integrated. Just dump in a bucket and shake? (I would think that this would not mix well). Or, mix a little of each, alternating, and close/shake at various point along the way? Or something else?
I made a batch recently and put them in well oversized bucket with a lid and spent as long as I could stand tumbling and shaking the bucket. The next day I dumped from my storage container back in the bucket, and shook and tumbled some more because I just wasn't sure how well mixed it was. Since then I had a better idea. Next time I'll dump all the ingredients in a big, heavy weight garbage bag, and shake and toss them like I would a dredge for frying chicken! That should get a lot more random movement.
 

Gozie Boy

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That's actually not a bad idea, as long as you use a super strong bag and be careful it doesn't break or get punctured.
 

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I'm sorry, am I reading this correctly?

I just mix 6lbs of Oxy Clean free, 4lbs Sodium Metasilicate (Red Devil TSP/90), and 2.8lbs (45oz) 7th Generation powdered dishwasher detergent, and I have 12.8lbs of what is functionally PBW for a fraction of the cost?

You guys are insane. I love this website so much.
 

schematix

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I'm sorry, am I reading this correctly?

I just mix 6lbs of Oxy Clean free, 4lbs Sodium Metasilicate (Red Devil TSP/90), and 2.8lbs (45oz) 7th Generation powdered dishwasher detergent, and I have 12.8lbs of what is functionally PBW for a fraction of the cost?
It's like half the cost of buying it by the pound at the LHBS or online. It's not quite as effective in my experience but for half the cost it's a good value and gets the job done. FWIW i bought a 50lb pale of real PBW and thought that was a better value than the DIY even at the lower price because in bulk the price is quite a bit less than we typically see when it's sold in smaller quantities.
 

Robert65

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It's not quite as effective in my experience
My initial impression is the opposite, that it's at least as effective, and I found it fully dissolved more readily. There are several brands of similar brewery cleaners, and I find they vary a little in performance; the homemade stuff is certainly right in the range. I'm sure I'll never buy ready made again.
 

Brooothru

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My initial impression is the opposite, that it's at least as effective, and I found it fully dissolved more readily. There are several brands of similar brewery cleaners, and I find they vary a little in performance; the homemade stuff is certainly right in the range. I'm sure I'll never buy ready made again.
I alternate between PBW and DIY. My DIY is 3:2:1 Oxy Free : TSP90 : 7th Generation. I have a hard time finding the 7th Gen powder detergent (usually only finding the dishwasher pods), but also have had good luck using a 'squirt' (scientific measure) of 7th Gen liquid as the surfactant. I've also used Dawn liquid on occasion.

I wash a ton of wine bottles and find that Oxi and Dawn seem to aid in label and glue removal but leave an annoying white film on the surface after drying. I think it's the Oxy. Oddly I don't have this problem if I soak/clean with PBW and 7th Gen. Either the Oxy has something that clings to the glass surface or the 7th Gen is a better surfactant.

Still looking for a DIY formulation that will help remove labels without leaving a residue on my bottles. The DIY does a more than adequate job on cleaning my brewing equipment at a significant cost savings however.

Brooo Brother
 

balrog

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Curious how you mix these up, so that they're well integrated. Just dump in a bucket and shake? (I would think that this would not mix well). Or, mix a little of each, alternating, and close/shake at various point along the way? Or something else?
I use an old oxy free container as my mixed up batch container. I put in two scoops sodium percarbonate bought in bulk off amazon, then one scoop tsp90 bought off amazon. Stir.

Lather rinse and repeat.
 

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Gonna have to try this
 
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Robert65

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Curious if you gave this a try and, if so, if it seemed to work well.
Well, it will be a long time before I have to make a new batch from the start, I just made this one. But I did put it in the bag and toss it around for extra insurance and proof of concept. It seems sound. No way it will break that bag, easy to shake, toss, roll, etc., and I was able to pour it back in the storage pail without choking in a caustic cloud of dust. I'll call it a successful idea.
 

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Sodium Metasilicate is hygroscopic and the moisture it attracts starts the decomposition of the sodium percarbonate. So for shelf life of the homemade PBW, best to bake the Na2SiO3 dry before mixing and/or store the finished product with moisture absorbent packs. Molecular sieve ones work very good for this purpose.
 

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I wash a ton of wine bottles and find that Oxi and Dawn seem to aid in label and glue removal but leave an annoying white film on the surface after drying. I think it's the Oxy. Oddly I don't have this problem if I soak/clean with PBW and 7th Gen. Either the Oxy has something that clings to the glass surface or the 7th Gen is a better surfactant.

Still looking for a DIY formulation that will help remove labels without leaving a residue on my bottles. The DIY does a more than adequate job on cleaning my brewing equipment at a significant cost savings however.

Brooo Brother
How do you remove the residue? I forgot about a batch of 50 bottles soaking in Kroger brand Oxy cleaner (Na carbonate and Na percarbonate) and they all have this white residue inside and out that I can't get off with dawn and Kroger oxy and insane amounts of scrubbing.
 

Brooothru

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How do you remove the residue? I forgot about a batch of 50 bottles soaking in Kroger brand Oxy cleaner (Na carbonate and Na percarbonate) and they all have this white residue inside and out that I can't get off with dawn and Kroger oxy and insane amounts of scrubbing.
I get the residue occasionally when I use Oxy alone or in combination with Dawn dishwashing liquid, but only it seems when I use too much Oxy. Try using less if you can. But what I usually do is a multi-step cleaning. I remove labels with an extended (several hours to overnight) soak in Oxy with a squirt of dishwashing liquid. Once the labels are removed I dry the bottles on a bottle tree. The outside of the bottle may have a white residue after drying, but that usually wipes off with a damp towel. Then I just store the Bottles (wine or beer) in boxes until I'm ready to bottle. The insides I deal with later. Just remember, when it comes to Oxy, less is usually more than enough.

At bottling time I sort the bottles and clean them inside and out with either a chlorine soak (usually Clorox 1 cup per 8 gallon deep sink) for at least a half hour or more, followed by a hot water rinse with a faucet-mounted bottle blaster. I follow up with a bowl-mounted blaster that shoots up Star-San into the inverted bottle. Put 'em back on the bottle tree and air dry. Then cap them with a small piece of foil and fill them within a week or so. The bottles will be clean and sanitary with no residue.

An alternative wash I use sometimes is a combination of TSP:Oxy at a ratio of roughly 2:1, with a healthy squirt of Seventh Generation dishwashing liquid. You don't need a lot of TSP/Oxy, maybe ¼ cup for an 8 gallon sink. Then do the same bottle blast with hot water and blast of Star-San and dry inverted on a bottle tree. That method is better with fewer residue issues than straight Oxy, but is a little more expensive and requires more measuring. Plus I've always got Oxy and Dawn in the house, but not always TSP and Seventh Gen.

Hardness of your local water may also contribute to white residue. I'm on a deep well with only moderate hardness and no chemical treatment other than carbon filtering. It usually leaves me with only minor white residue issues which are mostly just annoying. I can usually get my glass quite clean and sanitary with the steps I outlined with limited effort. The first step is for removing labels and residual glue. The second step is for cleaning and sanitizing, and getting rid of any white powder residue left over.

Brooo Brother
 

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Anyone know what types of companies have Sodium Percarbonate and Sodium Metasilicate. I looked around my area and it looks like I can only get a pallet or 55 gallon drum of them.
Looking to buy 50 to 100 pounds locally but having a hard time. 50# of Percarbonate shipped is over 100$ for me

Carpet cleaners? Dry cleaners?

Thanks guys
 

S-Met

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Anyone know what types of companies have Sodium Percarbonate and Sodium Metasilicate. I looked around my area and it looks like I can only get a pallet or 55 gallon drum of them.
Looking to buy 50 to 100 pounds locally but having a hard time. 50# of Percarbonate shipped is over 100$ for me

Carpet cleaners? Dry cleaners?

Thanks guys
Where are you located?
Have you tried Amazon? Both available with free shipping (prime not required).

I get tsp90 or tsp from my local home depot in 4lb bags. Its price is good enough.

You can also check with pool supply or hot tub companies. They may have or be willing to order for you.
 
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