High ABV IPA - Large batch requiring 4 starters??

[IslandLizard]

To complicate matters, you're brewing a high gravity ale (OG of 1.086).

1. For OGs above 1.065 the recommended pitch rate for ales is 1 million cells per ml per degree Plato (not 0.75). Set the custom pitch rate to 1.00 in your calculator, not the standard 0.75 million/ml/°P.
https://wyeastlab.com/high-gravity-brewing
Do you have 2 stir plates and 2 flasks?

2. You also need to oxygenate your wort thoroughly at pitching time. For high gravity worts, a 2nd oxygenation dose 12-18 hours after pitching, is recommended, as long as you do it before active fermentation has started (krausen, bubbles, airlock activity, etc.).

Do you have pure oxygen and an oxygenation stone?

 

[Ragman]

To complicate matters, you're brewing a high gravity ale (OG of 1.086).

1. For OGs above 1.065 the recommended pitch rate for ales is 1 million cells per ml per degree Plato (not 0.75). Set the custom pitch rate to 1.00 in your calculator, not the standard 0.75 million/ml/°P.
https://wyeastlab.com/high-gravity-brewing
Do you have 2 stir plates and 2 flasks?

2. You also need to oxygenate your wort thoroughly at pitching time. For high gravity worts, a 2nd oxygenation dose 12-18 hours after pitching, is recommended, as long as you do it before active fermentation has started (krausen, bubbles, airlock activity, etc.).

Do you have pure oxygen and an oxygenation stone?

OK I can change the pitch Rate to 1.00 - I do have 2 stir plates and 2 flasks, I do not have pure oxygen or an oxygen stone.

 

[Bobby_M]

How about upgrading to a 5 liter flask?

 

[Bobby_M]

On the calculator, you have a package date of 12/30/21. I doubt that's accurate.

 

[IslandLizard]

How about upgrading to a 5 liter flask?

Although generally a good idea, using 5 liter flasks depends on the stir plate, it's power and surface area mainly. Also on one's fridge/cold chamber for cold crashing it.
For example, I cannot fit a 3, 4 or 5 liter flask in any of my fridges without removing a shelf, which causes other issues. But two 2-liter ones fit without much problem.

 

[hottpeper13]

You need to look at the growth factor on that calculator. See how it's over 3 on the 2 L starter. When doing step starters the growth factor being between 3-5 makes the most viable yeast. For your second step imput 20 L (5 gal) and check out the growth factor. Healthy steps are a x 10 volume,ie 10 ml to 100 ml to 1000 ml then 20 L. I always make a 1.040- 1.050 beer as a 5 gal starter so I can decant it into my mouth, not the sink.

 

[Ragman]

So after watching a bunch more videos on Yeast washing and starters, I wanted to try this.

1 - Make a yeast starter at 1.040OG and shoot for 300 billion cells. (using the calculator to get this - if I cant get 300 Ill go for 200)
2 - After starter is done (24-48 on spin plate) I will swirl and empty the entire starter equally into 3 mason jars. (or two if I only get 200)

Would this mean that I now have 3 - 100Billion cell jars of yeast?

I know there may be other factors involved that I do not understand, just trying to figure out the calculations.
I usually use 100B cell packets of White Labs yeast which are about $10 at my local HB store. If this process works I could cut the cost down to about $3 a packet (or 100B cell count) each.

again if this process is viable - I would probably repeat the process with one of the mason jars and keep multiplying.

Sounds great in my head but Im almost sure this wouldnt be the case as I cant believe it would be this easy to make (multiply) yeast.

-

 

[DBhomebrew]

You're talking 'overbuilding'. Totally a thing. No need to wash (chemicals) or rinse. The spent starter beer makes good protection for at least a few months.

 

[Ragman]

You're talking 'overbuilding'. Totally a thing. No need to wash (chemicals) or rinse. The spent starter beer makes good protection for at least a few months.

Good, but for future brews using these new yeast jars, Im trying to figure out if I can assume the cell count in each jar "should" be close to 100 billion.

 

[DBhomebrew]

You can go by the results of the calculator, but the only real way to know is to count. With a microscope.

I adhere to the philosophy of pitching a fresh, plentiful, healthy, active community of yeast, not a specific amount. I make a 500ml 10:1 SNS starter, innoculate with a fresh package or a Tbsp of 'used' yeast from a previous batch, and pitch it as close to high krausen as possible. I've got no idea how many cells I pitched last night in a 3.3G 1.090 batch. 10hrs later, it's churning, churning, churning with 3" of thick yeasty krausen. Before pitching, I reserved a few Tbsps in a 1/2c mason jar for next time.

But that's just my approach.

 

[Ragman]

On the calculator, you have a package date of 12/30/21. I doubt that's accurate.

Yeah Im sure its not. Although there was another opinion on this thread that yeast cell counts are higher than what the package states. I dunno. but I normally calculate for a least a month old.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Good, but for future brews using these new yeast jars, Im trying to figure out if I can assume the cell count in each jar "should" be close to 100 billion.

Then the next question after you figure out if your jars each start out with 100B cells, how much will they have after 1 month? or 2 months? Estimates vary but 50% decline per month when using a simple yeast storage process is probably not too far off the mark.

 

[Ragman]

Then the next question after you figure out if your jars each start out with 100B cells, how much will they have after 1 month? or 2 months? Estimates vary but 50% decline per month when using a simple yeast storage process is probably not too far off the mark.

Good to know. Just would hate to go thru this process and then attempt to make a brew with one of these jars and have my calculations be waayyy off.

 

[hottpeper13]

If you think you have 100 b cells when transferred to mason jars,can't you date it and put that as the mfg date in a calculator? Anyway,that's what I do and I mostly get 4 hr lag times. Always a vitality starter or a direct repitch.

 

[Ragman]

If you think you have 100 b cells when transferred to mason jars,can't you date it and put that as the mfg date in a calculator? Anyway,that's what I do and I mostly get 4 hr lag times. Always a vitality starter or a direct repitch.

Thats my plan.