Personally, as long as the system uses standardized filters like 10"x2.5" then I don't think it matter what brand you get. Just get something that isn't proprietary that you would have to pay out the @$$ for.
Help choosing a ro system
- Thread starter jigtwins
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Personally, as long as the system uses standardized filters like 10"x2.5" then I don't think it matter what brand you get. Just get something that isn't proprietary that you would have to pay out the @$$ for.
Here are some things to look for in a small (residential scale - typically less than 150 gpd) RO system:
*No more than 3 stages (sediment, carbon, RO) unless you have specific water quality issues you want to address (e.g., high sediment loads, chloramine). If you also want a system with a pressurized storage container, then you'll need an additional carbon filter after the tank.
*Standard-sized prefilters and RO membrane
*A carbon block prefilter rather than GAC
*Brand name, high-rejection RO membrane
*Specifications provided for each stage
*Pressure gauge after the prefilters and before the membrane
*TDS meter (handheld or in-line)
*Rust-proof bracket
*Quick connect fittings
*Optional flush valve
*Clear housings
*High-quality instructions written in clear English
*Customer support before, during, and after your purchase
Russ
*No more than 3 stages (sediment, carbon, RO) unless you have specific water quality issues you want to address (e.g., high sediment loads, chloramine). If you also want a system with a pressurized storage container, then you'll need an additional carbon filter after the tank.
*Standard-sized prefilters and RO membrane
*A carbon block prefilter rather than GAC
*Brand name, high-rejection RO membrane
*Specifications provided for each stage
*Pressure gauge after the prefilters and before the membrane
*TDS meter (handheld or in-line)
*Rust-proof bracket
*Quick connect fittings
*Optional flush valve
*Clear housings
*High-quality instructions written in clear English
*Customer support before, during, and after your purchase
Russ
Realize that when you see a system rated at for example 24, or 36, or 50, or 75 gallons per day (gpd), the vendor is telling you the spec on the RO membrane (typically + or - 20%). Assuming you are sending the purified water ("permeate") to an open container rather than a pressurized storage tank, you'll get somewhere near that many gpd only if your conditions (primarily water temperature and water pressure) match the conditions under which the membrane manufacturer tests their membranes.
All residential membrane manufacturers I'm aware of test their membranes at 77F (25C). Check your water temperature - for most people it will be colder that 77F. Colder water yields slower permeate production.
In terms of test pressures, Filmtec uses 50F, and other manufacturers use 60 or 65 psi. If you have lower pressure you'll get slower production as well.
We have a calculator (link on our homepage) where you can plug in your water temperature and water pressure and see an estimate of what you can expect in terms of gpd production.
Russ
All residential membrane manufacturers I'm aware of test their membranes at 77F (25C). Check your water temperature - for most people it will be colder that 77F. Colder water yields slower permeate production.
In terms of test pressures, Filmtec uses 50F, and other manufacturers use 60 or 65 psi. If you have lower pressure you'll get slower production as well.
We have a calculator (link on our homepage) where you can plug in your water temperature and water pressure and see an estimate of what you can expect in terms of gpd production.
Russ
In terms of how much concentrate ("waste water") a residential RO system produces relative to the amount of permeate ("RO water"), realize that it is affected by your water pressure and temperature (and other things to a lesser extent), and is controlled on residential systems by a little $4 part called a flow restrictor. YOU can control the amount of concentrate produced by installing a different flow restrictor. Will take you all of about 30 seconds. But... and Martin alluded to this in one of his posts, the more you choke off the concentrate, the more likely you are to shorten the useful life of the $35 to $55 membrane. For larger membranes this can be modeled with available software, but for these "1812" residential membranes most people just stick with a ratio of about 4 parts concentrate to 1 part permeate. With softened water you'd likely have reasonable results going to a 3:1 or 2:1.
So realize when a vendor promotes a system with a magic 1:1 ratio - typically all they've done is install a tighter flow restrictor. In many instances however (and they typically don't mention this) you'll also shorten the life of the RO membrane.
We had a customer last week that ruined two commercial RO membranes in less than two weeks - because they monkeyed around with the amount of concentrate in an effort to reduce water usage without understanding that the concentrate flow serves an important purpose in protecting the membrane.
Russ
So realize when a vendor promotes a system with a magic 1:1 ratio - typically all they've done is install a tighter flow restrictor. In many instances however (and they typically don't mention this) you'll also shorten the life of the RO membrane.
We had a customer last week that ruined two commercial RO membranes in less than two weeks - because they monkeyed around with the amount of concentrate in an effort to reduce water usage without understanding that the concentrate flow serves an important purpose in protecting the membrane.
Russ
This is one of the many things that come to mind every time I hear someone say "all those RO systems are alike - just buy the cheapest one." Nothing could be further from the truth. If you like clear sumps on your housings, avoid housings with male threads on the sump - they often come with 2 orings. We've repaired approx. 1 gazillion systems over the years, and these housings tend to crack.
Also remember that no matter what sort of housing you use, don't use a housing wrench and brute strength to try to get housings to seal. Some low end housings are made poorly and tend to leak. But all housings seal at an oring. So if you have trouble with a housing leaking at the threads, first remove, wash, lube, and reinstall the oring. Use a food grade silicone grease. Then tighten the housing by hand, and maybe just a slight tweak with a housing wrench. If it still leaks, replace the oring. If you overtighten housings to try to get them to seal, something like this is probably in your future:
Russ
I think you mean a permeate pump. These pumps only work on systems pushing water into a PRESSURIZED storage container.
And truth be told, if you have a pressure tank, your ratio will likely be much higher than a 4:1. That tank exerts pressure "backwards" on the membrane, reducing the net pressure available to drive the RO process.
Permeate pumps do work. They are not electric, so no need to worry about your electric bill nor any heat issues. There are two sizes available - one for systems with membranes of 50 gpd and less, and one for larger residential membranes.
Russ
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Yeow - I'd steer clear of that system. Happy to discuss in detail if you'd like.
Russ
513-312-2343
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If its not apparent yet...brewers considering a RO system might want to check what Russ can do for you.
Please remember that adage: Penny wise, pound foolish. Don't be too cheap or you'll pay for it later.
Please remember that adage: Penny wise, pound foolish. Don't be too cheap or you'll pay for it later.
Pardon my french but who the **** is Russ?
That's funny stuff!
Paps - I'm with Buckeye Hydro - a site sponsor and water treatment company.
See posts above!
Russ
Paps - I'm with Buckeye Hydro - a site sponsor and water treatment company.
See posts above!
Russ
The_Bishop
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Russ, got a question for you:
I've got a system with a 75 GPD membrane (Your 75GPD MAXR membrane). Water into the system is softened, and has a booster pump to bring the pressure up to 90psi. Permeate goes through a permeate pump into an 11 gallon capacity pressure storage tank. Booster pump and feedwater solenoid are tripped by a pressure switch on the storage tank, 40/60 psi.
I've got one of your flush valves on it, with (if I remember right) a blue restrictor in it. I get a consistent 98% rejection rate according to my TDS meter.
Could I use a smaller restrictor to generate less concentrate? I know I'll shorten the life of the membrane, but if I have to swap it out every 1-2 years it's not the end of the world.
I've got a system with a 75 GPD membrane (Your 75GPD MAXR membrane). Water into the system is softened, and has a booster pump to bring the pressure up to 90psi. Permeate goes through a permeate pump into an 11 gallon capacity pressure storage tank. Booster pump and feedwater solenoid are tripped by a pressure switch on the storage tank, 40/60 psi.
I've got one of your flush valves on it, with (if I remember right) a blue restrictor in it. I get a consistent 98% rejection rate according to my TDS meter.
Could I use a smaller restrictor to generate less concentrate? I know I'll shorten the life of the membrane, but if I have to swap it out every 1-2 years it's not the end of the world.
Sure. You should get a reasonable life out of the membrane as your water is softened.
Your blue fr is sized for a 75 gpd membrane. You could step down to a 50 gpd fr (green).
Did you install the booster pump AFTER your prefilter housings?
Russ
Your blue fr is sized for a 75 gpd membrane. You could step down to a 50 gpd fr (green).
Did you install the booster pump AFTER your prefilter housings?
Russ
The_Bishop
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The booster pump is before the prefilter housings, but all the water into my home goes through a 10 micron spun polyester 4x20 sediment filter. I'm on a well, should have mentioned that. My pressure gauge on the RO system is after the prefilter housings.
In a perfect world, you'd move the pump so it is after the prefilters. The weakest component on your entire system in terms of ability to withstand pressure is those clear housings.
He's a rep from buckeyehydro sponsored on this site.
Edit: this has already been answered. Phone didn't load correctly.
The_Bishop
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Ok, Russ. You made a good point, and I had the tubing. The system is now plumbed the way you recommended. None too soon, it seems; from the looks of it I may have the beginnings of stress cracks in one of the prefilter housings, so I'll be looking to replace that on my next filter change.
Thanks for the heads up! I'll be ordering the restrictor from your site. Do you sell the replacement clear housings, or do I need the whole canister?
Thanks for the heads up! I'll be ordering the restrictor from your site. Do you sell the replacement clear housings, or do I need the whole canister?
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I'm glad this thread has popped up in the past couple of days. I just found out that I knew absolutely NOTHING about RO water. Now I know a smidge. Lots more to learn. In the meantime I will keep spending 30 to 35 cents a gallon for brewing water.
A question for Russ:
I'm considering an RO system for brewing only (our tap water is fine for drinking, and we have a water softener). I've been buying bulk RO water from Walmart, but due to recent back troubles, my days of schlepping water jugs to and from the store are coming to an end.
I'm looking at the Buckeye Premium RO systems right now. I don't want to do a permanent installation. I'd simply like to hook it up in my laundry room when needed, using the standard hose bib for source water, and fill 5 gallon water jugs with the RO. I'd either run the waste water down the sink or perhaps collect it for watering plants, etc. Anyway, what parts do I need in addition to what comes with the system to set it up this way?
I'm considering an RO system for brewing only (our tap water is fine for drinking, and we have a water softener). I've been buying bulk RO water from Walmart, but due to recent back troubles, my days of schlepping water jugs to and from the store are coming to an end.
I'm looking at the Buckeye Premium RO systems right now. I don't want to do a permanent installation. I'd simply like to hook it up in my laundry room when needed, using the standard hose bib for source water, and fill 5 gallon water jugs with the RO. I'd either run the waste water down the sink or perhaps collect it for watering plants, etc. Anyway, what parts do I need in addition to what comes with the system to set it up this way?
I'd love to hear what you have to say.
A hose bib splitter and adapter, OR just a hose bib adapter
And that's about it. A some point if you want the system to shut itself off when your reservoir (5 gallon bucket) is full, that's doable as well.
Should be a quick and easy set up.
Russ
OP
OP
jigtwins
Well-Known Member
Thanks all for the information. This is a great community of helpful people. Just wanted to say I originally choose reef supply 4 stage 75 gpd system. Then I found buckeye hydro. I really wanted a 3 stage because I did not need/want the di portion on the 4 stage system. buckeye had a inexpensive 3 stage and I cancelled my order with reef to get the buckeye system. I plan on testing this unit and will post here with my opinions. Thanks again on the help you all supplied me with.
Buckeye_Hydro,
Curious to know what system you'd suggest for this water profile:
pH 8.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 798
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 1.33
Cations / Anions, me/L 13.4 / 13.8 ppm
Sodium, Na 303
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 2
Magnesium, Mg < 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 9
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.4 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 30
Chloride, Cl 130
Carbonate, CO3 13.1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 476
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 408
Total Phosphorus, P 0.03
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01 "<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
Curious to know what system you'd suggest for this water profile:
pH 8.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 798
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 1.33
Cations / Anions, me/L 13.4 / 13.8 ppm
Sodium, Na 303
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 2
Magnesium, Mg < 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 9
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.4 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 30
Chloride, Cl 130
Carbonate, CO3 13.1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 476
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 408
Total Phosphorus, P 0.03
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01 "<" - Not Detected / Below Detection Limit
I'm guessing your Ca, and Mg are expressed in gpg? Must be. 9 gpg total hardness is not terribly hard in the grand scheme of things.
Is what you need for home brewing just a few gallons at a time, or are we talking about a larger commercial situation?
Russ
Is what you need for home brewing just a few gallons at a time, or are we talking about a larger commercial situation?
Russ
Home brewing. I'd need to collect in the neighborhood of 12-30 gallons for a typical brew day depending on if I choose to dilute the source or not.
And how long are you willing to wait for the production of 30 gallons? Or are you wanting to set up a system that fills a 30 gallon "reservoir" and automatically shuts itself off when the container is full?
Might be best if you just gave us a call. We're here all day today.
Russ
513-312-2343
Might be best if you just gave us a call. We're here all day today.
Russ
513-312-2343
Alright, I'll try to call if I get a break. I'm brewing today!
I'm considering RO so that I dont have to buy distilled.Russ,
I am looking to build an RO system similar to the one in the picture from the OP of the thread below. Would you be able to price components for me? Also was wondering your thoughts on running it parallel or in series? Should I as fo you if I call?
http://mapletrader.com/community/sh...all-RO-for-the-little-guy&p=273972#post273972
Registered on that site, but takes some time to get approved - - so I can't see the picture in the OP. Can you copy and post it?
Russ
Russ
