RV water filter vs. RO system?

[Willy]

Curious. My water is pretty darn good. The water profile provided isn't especially concerning and I have brewed over 50 batches just using the water from the tap.

But since water is the main ingredient of beer it makes perfect sense to have great water. Yes, I add minerals as suggested by the BrewFather app for a particular style.

So, I decided to use an RV filter and see if that might provide any upgrade to the final tastiness. Still holding off on an RO system because I am not "sold" yet that the cost and extra time needed is worth the effort. Help me understand better. I am pretty sure I am wrong (been there before), so elucidate me.

 

[mac_1103]

An RV water filter is not nothing, but it's not anything like an RO membrane either. I use a ZeroWater filter myself. It's really slow so I have to plan ahead, but I get 0 TDS with no waste water. And since my starting TDS is only in the 50-75 range, a filter lasts me a very long time.

 

[Willy]

An RV water filter is not nothing, but it's not anything like an RO membrane either. I use a ZeroWater filter myself. It's really slow so I have to plan ahead, but I get 0 TDS with no waste water. And since my starting TDS is only in the 50-75 range, a filter lasts me a very long time.

TDS? ... I am not sure what this means.
Thankfully I am pretty sure someone else is clueless

 

[DuncB]

TDS? ... I am not sure what this means.
Thankfully I am pretty sure someone else is clueless

It means Total Dissolved Solids
ie the minerals dissolved in the water.

Why not post your water report and a little more info on your RV filter.

 

[Willy]

It means Total Dissolved Solids
ie the minerals dissolved in the water.

Why not post your water report and a little more info on your RV filter.

My water report is Charlotte Water . Trying this filter as my test.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0006IX87S?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[DuncB]

It's a linear version of a jug filter really. Should get the chlorine and chloramine out, which is important before brewing.

It's pretty bland your water, an RO system wouldn't be stripping much out.

Alkalinity as CaCO3 = 21.3 ppm

Aluminum = 25 ppb

Ammonia = < 0.05 ppm

Calcium = 11.0 ppm

Chloride = 6.1 ppm

Conductivity = 99 Umhos/cm

Iron = <50 ppb

Magnesium = 1.7 ppm

Manganese = <10 ppb

Sodium = 3.6 ppm

Sulfate = 10.6 ppm

Total Hardness = 35 ppm

Zinc = <10 ppb

pH = 8.71

Samples were taken from treated water at the Franklin Water Treatment Facility on 10/9/24. Updated 11/20/24

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

An RV filter typically contains GAC (carbon) or GAC plus KDF. These media will remove the chlorine, and perhaps some of the chloramine from your water, which will improve the taste.

An RO system includes a filter similar to an RV filter, but it also includes an RO membrane. Speaking loosely, the RO membrane removes almost all of everything from your water, so you're left with nearly pure H2O - effectively a blank slate for brewing.

Here's an issue I have with those RV filters. They are not refillable - so when you use up its finite life, you throw the entire thing in the trash and buy a new one. I think a better solution would be a standard filter housing with a refillable cartridge in it - when it's no longer effective you just replace the media.

Russ

 

[Willy]

An RV filter typically contains GAC (carbon) or GAC plus KDF. These media will remove the chlorine, and perhaps some of the chloramine from your water, which will improve the taste.

An RO system includes a filter similar to an RV filter, but it also includes an RO membrane. Speaking loosely, the RO membrane removes almost all of everything from your water, so you're left with nearly pure H2O - effectively a blank slate for brewing.

Here's an issue I have with those RV filters. They are not refillable - so when you use up its finite life, you throw the entire thing in the trash and buy a new one. I think a better solution would be a standard filter housing with a refillable cartridge in it - when it's no longer effective you just replace the media.

Russ

Thanks - that was very helpful.

 

[tracer bullet]

Water is "pure water" (which can be achieved with either RO or DI methods). Then there are various "salts" and sulfates, chlorides, and more that you hear talked about. The amounts of each (and the ratios resulting) can be pretty important. That's a huge subject itself.

If you get a water report (Ward's is one place that can do that), you'll know where you start. Then you can put that info, and what grain you are using (and sometimes a beer style) into one of several calculators to see what is recommended to be added to have water suitable for the beer style you have in mind.

RO water will give you the blank slate but you'll have to add to it. You can do tap plus a few additions, RO with lots of additions, or even a combination if the calculator can handle it.

So that's how that works. There's also chlorine / chloramine to frequently be dealt with. You can add things to the beer to remove it, or use a very specific type of filter to remove it.

If you have quite good tap water (low on the dissolved minerals), you could still get a filter from say Buckeye Hydro. You can have a pre-filter, a chloramine remover, and a carbon filter. Run that a while, get a sample, send it to Ward's if you expect to keep using these filters in the future. Put that info in a calculator and go!

 

[mabrungard]

I think my tap water tastes pretty good too! But I know that I have to adjust it to make great beer across many styles. Your tap water is a pretty good starting point and you shouldn't need to include RO in your brewing. But you still need to understand and adjust your water to fit your intended brew. That's how you take the next step in brewing.

 

[Willy]

Here we are ... I just sampled my first batch using the RV filter on all beer water - I also got a small hose, to use only with brewing. (I brew outside). I would love to go RO but don't really have the space under the sink to make it work in my world. (Wife isn't sold, ha).

Anyway ... Just sampled the first batch brewed the day of the initial post. Oh my goodness - it is wonderful. Yeah... I can taste the difference.

So, the RV filter on the water was a BIG yes for me. Yeah, I will probably someday get RO... But the $20 RV filter was a big bang for the buck. My water from the city was already pretty good, but the RV filter did make it better. Hmmm. I wonder how I need to adjust my mineral additions.

 

[MaxStout]

Just getting the chlorine/chloramines out is a big plus. With the RV filter doing that, you're ahead of the game.

 

[Willy]

Just getting the chlorine/chloramines out is a big plus. With the RV filter doing that, you're ahead of the game.

That's what I guessed. Never tried to get the chlorine out (Camden tablets?). Yeah. Makes a delicious difference.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

If you want to continue with treatment of tapwater w/ chlorine/chloramine via carbon, we can help you with a more cost effective solution.

 

[IslandLizard]

(Camden tablets?)

Yes, that's a simple, cheap, and effective solution to remove the chlorine or chloramines.

Alas, Campden tablets are quite hard and difficult to dissolve (due to the binder that's used to press them into tablets).

Instead, may I suggest treating your brewing water with some Potassium (or Sodium) MetaBisulfite powder. It's the same active chemical as Campden tablets, without the hard to dissolve binder.

1/16 teaspoon of the powder (yes, that's 1/4 of a 1/4 teaspoon!) will treat 5 gallons of brewing water. Just stir it well after adding.
Since it can be difficult to measure such a small quantity, even if using a little more (say as much as a 1/8 teaspoon) won't harm anything, or be noticeable.

You can get it at the homebrew store or online, it's widely used by wine, mead, and cider makers. Comes in little 2 oz jars (plenty for years of treating homebrewing water). Also in pound bags when using larger amounts as in wine, mead, and cider making.

 

[Willy]

Yes, that's a simple, cheap, and effective solution to remove the chlorine or chloramines.

Alas, Campden tablets are quite hard and difficult to dissolve (due to the binder that's used to press them into tablets).

Instead, may I suggest treating your brewing water with some Potassium (or Sodium) MetaBisulfite powder. It's the same active chemical as Campden tablets, without the hard to dissolve binder.

1/16 teaspoon of the powder (yes, that's 1/4 of a 1/4 teaspoon!) will treat 5 gallons of brewing water. Just stir it well after adding.
Since it can be difficult to measure such a small quantity, even if using a little more (say as much as a 1/8 teaspoon) won't harm anything, or be noticeable.

You can get it at the homebrew store or online, it's widely used by wine, mead, and cider makers. Comes in little 2 oz jars (plenty for years of treating homebrewing water). Also in pound bags when using larger amounts as in wine, mead, and cider making.

Thanks that's very helpful. Micro dose indeed, I imagine a 1/16 teaspoon looks like BB sized hemisphere.

I like the $20 RV filter so far. I have no idea how long it lasts? 3 months is my guess. It is hooked up to the backyard garden hose outlet ... And I swear the plants in my raised beds are living it too.

Will check out the MetaBisulfite you suggested. Thanks again.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks that's very helpful. Micro dose indeed, I imagine a 1/16 teaspoon looks like BB sized hemisphere.

YVW!
I measured it out once, quite precisely. 1/4 teaspoon worth of the powder, cut into 4 equal heaps. So I know what 1/16 tsp looks like.
I've been using the tip of a dinner knife to scoop out a very similar amount with a little extra margin, to be safe.

Once I got my mini scale, I verified and it was close enough for brewing.

 

[Bobby_M]

.. Yes, I add minerals as suggested by the BrewFather app for a particular style.

How do you accurately get to a water profile target without knowing where you're starting from?

I don't know exactly the right words to use to convince you that paying even closer attention to your water will absolutely pay off. If you're not adding acid to the mash water for light colored (or even medium copper/amber) then you are brewing sub-optimally with high mash pH.

 

[Willy]

How do you accurately get to a water profile target without knowing where you're starting from?

I don't know exactly the right words to use to convince you that paying even closer attention to your water will absolutely pay off. If you're not adding acid to the mash water for light colored (or even medium copper/amber) then you are brewing sub-optimally with high mash pH.

I take mash ph, and mash OG... And post boil ph and OG. Usually factor in some acidulated malt in the recipe, amt. determined by the recipe... and if needed a teeny splash of lactic acid. So yeah, taking care of business re: ph.

My water is quite good. Just wanted to taste the difference of RV filter getting the chlorine and chloramine and perhaps other stuff.

Metabisuphite ... Wanna check that out too.

 

[oakbarn]

I use these filiters:

https://www.boogiebrew.net/water-filter

 

[mabrungard]

I use these filiters:

https://www.boogiebrew.net/water-filter

DON'T

Those little filters are useless at removing disinfectant from water unless you throttle the flow to a trickle. In addition, their limited disinfectant capacity is used up pretty quickly. It's far better to use the bigger 10" or 20" filters to remove disinfectants from water, but even then the flow rate has to be reduced.

 

[BuckeyeDave]

I first part of this thread was discussing TDS removal, but seems to ultimately discuss chlorine removal. Is the intent of your discussion about this aspect of treating water to remove bad odor and taste as well as chlorine or water treatment for brewing? The zero water filter would be effective for taste and chlorine for sure. But at some point the mention of the zero water filter and the link provided drew my attention to the details of this filter. It claims to reduce TDS to zero. If Total Hardness and Total Alkalinity are subsets of TDS does the filter reduce appreciably hardness or alkalinity? Did you measure the water after using the filters to compare to your water report to see what changed? Just curious and perhaps a bit confused I guess.

 

[mac_1103]

It claims to reduce TDS to zero. If Total Hardness and Total Alkalinity are subsets of TDS does the filter reduce appreciably hardness or alkalinity?

Yes. Basically to zero.

Did you measure the water after using the filters to compare to your water report to see what changed?

I didn't send it off to Ward Labs or anything, but my ZeroWater pitcher came with a TDS meter. My tap water usually reads between 50 and 85. A Brita filter or my refrigerator filter doesn't change the reading much (maybe drops it by 10 ppm or so). The ZeroWater filter takes it down to zero, just as advertized. I'll replace the filter when it stops taking it down to zero.

 

[BuckeyeDave]

You have my curiosity peaked. I am wondering about the technical performance of the filter versus RO systems. It certainly is much cheaper.

 

[mac_1103]

I am wondering about the technical performance of the filter versus RO systems.

I'm nothing close to an expert on RO systems, but I treat my ZeroWater as if it was RO water for purposes of building brewing water profiles and it seems to work pretty well for me. I don't know how cost effective it would be in the long run for someone starting with much harder water than mine, since I would think that person will be replacing the $35 filter a lot more often than I do. And someone like @Buckeye_Hydro can get you set up with a real RO system without breaking the bank.