Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

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chato said:
Your numbers look pretty good. I calculated percentages from an Alchemist brew sheet.



For a 6 gallon batch at OG 1.076 with 74% efficiency, I got these:



14 lbs Pearl (86%)

.65 lbs Caramalt (4%)

1.6 lbs Dextrose (10%)



They actually use 158 lbs Dextrose
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Also really no wheat?
 
Trillium said:
Why add wheat to an IIPA?
Click to expand...


Well the many early iterations of the clone attempt had white wheat. Even to the point where we were sleuthing malt bags in videos from the cannery and determined it was Canada malting white wheat

And your namesake handle trillium has wheat in scaled way up which is 8% abv (they have Wheat in most if not all of their IPAs it appears)
 
Some interesting data points in this article, unsure if it's been posted somewhere in this train wreck. I think many fail brewing this beer not due to recipe but process/quality hops.

https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3187-advanced-dry-hopping-techniques

Let's talk about this one first since it is the first variable every brewer should worry about. John Kimmich has focused a lot of time and energy towards making sure that the dissolved oxygen (DO) of his beers is minimized. While it may not be the only reason his beer Heady Topper is ranked the #1 beer in the world by users on BeerAdvocate.com, it certainly helps. He recounted a story when a quality assurance person from his canning company came to test his beers one day. The tester needed to run back to his car since he thought his dissolved oxygen (DO) meter was broken. He had measured 1 part per billion (ppb) DO in The Alchemist's brite tank (a vessel that is somewhat akin to a homebrewer's bottling bucket). He had never seen numbers that low. While John's process may seem like a bit of sorcery, one thing that I do know is that John is adamantly opposed to filtering his beers. The yeast left in solution can act as a buffer against any oxygen uptake. This is one reason you may not want to filter your beers when brewing a hop-forward beer.

Only two of the seven pro brewers I spoke to didn't add their dry hops in stages. One that was surprising was John Kimmich who adds all his dry hops in one big charge for his Imperial IPA

Finding the right balance of hop oils of a varietal or a blend is key. If you've had Heady Topper before, you may be surprised to learn that John Kimmich dry hops with under 4 oz. (113 g) per 5 gallons (19 L)
 
TrickyDick said:
For folks saying their clone attempt isn't bitter enough should consider another variable...boil intensity. It does make a difference and it's a Big difference.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you believe boil intensity has anything to do with bitterness contribution. Whether you are at a gentle boil, or an intense rolling boil the wort temp is 212 degrees (depending on your elevation). All a more vigorous boil does is quicken the change of state from a liquid to a gas. This will affect the aromatic hop oils being boiled off more quickly, as well as boiling off precursors of DMS from the grains, but it shouldn't affect IBU contribution, which is a function of boil time and temperature.
 
tooldudetool said:
Not sure why you believe boil intensity has anything to do with bitterness contribution. Whether you are at a gentle boil, or an intense rolling boil the wort temp is 212 degrees (depending on your elevation). All a more vigorous boil does is quicken the change of state from a liquid to a gas. This will affect the aromatic hop oils being boiled off more quickly, as well as boiling off precursors of DMS from the grains, but it shouldn't affect IBU contribution, which is a function of boil time and temperature.
Click to expand...

Boil intensity affects evaporation rate and therefore volume...which impacts IBU. So theoretically, I can see what TrickyDick is saying, but never paid enough attention to see if it makes a difference..
 
khillian said:
Some interesting data points in this article, unsure if it's been posted somewhere in this train wreck. I think many fail brewing this beer not due to recipe but process/quality hops.

https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3187-advanced-dry-hopping-techniques

Let's talk about this one first since it is the first variable every brewer should worry about. John Kimmich has focused a lot of time and energy towards making sure that the dissolved oxygen (DO) of his beers is minimized. While it may not be the only reason his beer Heady Topper is ranked the #1 beer in the world by users on BeerAdvocate.com, it certainly helps. He recounted a story when a quality assurance person from his canning company came to test his beers one day. The tester needed to run back to his car since he thought his dissolved oxygen (DO) meter was broken. He had measured 1 part per billion (ppb) DO in The Alchemist's brite tank (a vessel that is somewhat akin to a homebrewer's bottling bucket). He had never seen numbers that low. While John's process may seem like a bit of sorcery, one thing that I do know is that John is adamantly opposed to filtering his beers. The yeast left in solution can act as a buffer against any oxygen uptake. This is one reason you may not want to filter your beers when brewing a hop-forward beer.

Only two of the seven pro brewers I spoke to didn't add their dry hops in stages. One that was surprising was John Kimmich who adds all his dry hops in one big charge for his Imperial IPA

Finding the right balance of hop oils of a varietal or a blend is key. If you've had Heady Topper before, you may be surprised to learn that John Kimmich dry hops with under 4 oz. (113 g) per 5 gallons (19 L)
Click to expand...

4 oz dry hop really wow that's pretty shocking. I've had heady and while its aromatic it's not jumping out of the can aromatic but I think a lot of that flavor and dankness is from the late additions and whirlpool additions.
 
Brewing the recipe on the first page tomorrow & have two questions...

1) Any experience with the Omega yeast strain? Good, bad, indifferent? That is what I will be using tomorrow.
2) What temp has everyone used for fermentation? I plan to hold it at 62 degrees for the first 72-96 hours.

Thx
 
Omega should be fine. Pitch at .43 (that's actually pretty low as .75 is standard) and raise by 1 degree per day once fermentation starts. Once you hit 66* your beer should actually be finished at 1.010. The key is that you have to pitch correctly (don't assume you have have the 200 billion cells they tell you.) If you are brewing today it is probably too late, but I would advise making a starter, crashing it, and assuming 4 billion cells/ml of crashed yeast. If you are assuming on the yeast you may want to pitch as high as 1.00 just to be sure, save 5-10% of your yeast and crash it to figure out how much you really pitched. A lot of people say Conan gets more powerful after a few generations, and every time you make a starter it basically adds another generation, so if you had a week you might have enough time to make a 3-step starter and crash it.
 
ianmatth said:
Omega should be fine. Pitch at .43 (that's actually pretty low as .75 is standard) and raise by 1 degree per day once fermentation starts. Once you hit 66* your beer should actually be finished at 1.010. The key is that you have to pitch correctly (don't assume you have have the 200 billion cells they tell you.) If you are brewing today it is probably too late, but I would advise making a starter, crashing it, and assuming 4 billion cells/ml of crashed yeast. If you are assuming on the yeast you may want to pitch as high as 1.00 just to be sure, save 5-10% of your yeast and crash it to figure out how much you really pitched. A lot of people say Conan gets more powerful after a few generations, and every time you make a starter it basically adds another generation, so if you had a week you might have enough time to make a 3-step starter and crash it.
Click to expand...

2nd generation. Pitched the original Omega pack into 2L on a stir plate, spun for 2-3 days, decanted to mason jar. This was about a month ago.

Repitched into another 2L starter Friday night. It's long been finished.

Intend to pitch 1.5L (not decanted) into 6 gallons & keep the remaining for the next batch.
 
I'm sorry in advance for asking because I know the info is probably burried somewhere in this Thread. I've been looking for the last 30min and can't find a definitive post. Can someone convert the best clone recipe (is that the one on page 1?) to a Partial Mash recipe?
 
cbauer210 said:
I'm sorry in advance for asking because I know the info is probably burried somewhere in this Thread. I've been looking for the last 30min and can't find a definitive post. Can someone convert the best clone recipe (is that the one on page 1?) to a Partial Mash recipe?
Click to expand...


Your best shot is using a marris otter extract (the only "premium" malt extract I'm aware of - made by muntons I believe) and doing a trial fermentation on a small amount to see what the attenuation % for it is. Once you know this you can adjust the fermentability % in BeerSmith (or other programs too probably) and find out how much sugar to add. Or take a gamble with the final gravity and hit your OG with the liquid extract. You're never really going to make the same beer with the extracts on the market though. If you have a big enough boil kettle I'd even recommend doing BIAB over partial mash and taking the efficiency hit personally. Sorry this isn't more helpful.
 
Does hop extract have different buttering qualities than pellet hops?

I used 2.25 oz of Apollo @ 90 min to get the ~115 IBU's I was looking for and this batch is crazy bitter.

Much more bitter than the heady I had a year ago.
 
cantrell00 said:
Does hop extract have different buttering qualities than pellet hops?

I used 2.25 oz of Apollo @ 90 min to get the ~115 IBU's I was looking for and this batch is crazy bitter.

Much more bitter than the heady I had a year ago.
Click to expand...

Not all the bitterness would come from the boil hop. 90 minutes is way too long. Do 60 min instead.
What was your mash Ph? A higher mash ph results in harsh astringent bitterness.
 
cbauer210... if you use the recipe from page 1, you would take 2lbs of pearl malt and mash that with the white wheat and caramalt. Then do some math - 11lbs 4oz pearl malt minus 2 lbs pearl malt (that you are mashing with)= 9lbs 4 oz pearl malt. Take the 9lbs 4oz and multiply that by .75 - whatever that equals that is how much Marris Otter liquid extract you would use. The rest of the recipe should be identical to what is posted.
 
cantrell00 said:
Does hop extract have different buttering qualities than pellet hops?

I used 2.25 oz of Apollo @ 90 min to get the ~115 IBU's I was looking for and this batch is crazy bitter.

Much more bitter than the heady I had a year ago.
Click to expand...


Extract is usually made from CTZ. I'd say bittering qualities of CTZ and Apollo are different but if you use CTZ for bittering there shouldn't really be much of any difference from the extract.
 
Trillium said:
Not all the bitterness would come from the boil hop. 90 minutes is way too long. Do 60 min instead.
What was your mash Ph? A higher mash ph results in harsh astringent bitterness.
Click to expand...

The mash pH would have been low based on the amount of gypsum that I added to my water. It was calculated @5.1-5.2 on the brunwater spreadsheet.
 
I assume you added significant hop additions after the boil. I've thought that I could get away with tossing multiple ounces in at 170 (or at least what I measured at 170) and ended up with an overly bitter beer
 
Not sure if those using extract already know this, but i recently read (somewhere) that mixture the extract with vodka helps liquify it and make it less "sticky" in your BK
 
Did anyone use recipe from 1st page with 1056/us-05 yeast? and without hopshot (using ctz for bittering instead)? How did it go?
 
I did the Beersmith HT clone on hand recipe 3 weeks ago. Couldn't get Pearl at the LHBS so went with Halcyon.
I've yet to try Heady Topper but this is by far the best recipe I've done to date. Yeah I'm impatient but it's already carbed and ready in just a week. Grapefruity, smooth chuggable. These 2. something cases won't last long
 
I have a feeling this is a Frequency Asked Question given the length of this epic thread, but is the 4.0 recipe on the first page still the benchmark or is there an update buried somewhere in this beyotch?

Cheers! (and tia)
 
day_trippr said:
I have a feeling this is a Frequency Asked Question given the length of this epic thread, but is the 4.0 recipe on the first page still the benchmark or is there an update buried somewhere in this beyotch?



Cheers! (and tia)
Click to expand...


Yes it's the best clone avail right now
 
hey all, been following the thread here and there for the past few weeks. I Had my first headdy topper a few months back and it was great. I ordered my kit from Farmhouse last week and made a 2L starter 36 hours ago and I'm pretty much all setup for brewday tomorrow!!

A few quick questions if anyone happens to see this before I start tomorrow.

1.) What Temp are you guys/Gals doing your whirlpool addition? Is 170 for 30 mins a good place to start?

2.) I know I've seen in this thread and other places talking about headdy having a 750ppm of so4. I'm not ready to take it to that level but I wanted to throw up my water after salt additions and just have the more knowledgeable let me know what you think.

Ps. I've attempted building water very few times.

Using BrewersFriend Mash chemistry and Brewing water calculator I've input my water report and the grain bill as well.

First question- Is it acceptable to treat both my mash and sparge water with the same Salt additions and then just split the water afterwards. As in treat all 9.5 gallons of water to the desired figures and then use 4.5 of it for my mash and the other 5 for my sparge water?

Here is the Water Profile I currently have setup.

Ca+2 mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2
147.9 14.7 10.2 56.2 350.0

Is this a decent start? If not please help me adjust anything you see wrong.

Thanks Jake
 
Mx750ktm said:
hey all, been following the thread here and there for the past few weeks. I Had my first headdy topper a few months back and it was great. I ordered my kit from Farmhouse last week and made a 2L starter 36 hours ago and I'm pretty much all setup for brewday tomorrow!!

A few quick questions if anyone happens to see this before I start tomorrow.

1.) What Temp are you guys/Gals doing your whirlpool addition? Is 170 for 30 mins a good place to start?

2.) I know I've seen in this thread and other places talking about headdy having a 750ppm of so4. I'm not ready to take it to that level but I wanted to throw up my water after salt additions and just have the more knowledgeable let me know what you think.

Ps. I've attempted building water very few times.

Using BrewersFriend Mash chemistry and Brewing water calculator I've input my water report and the grain bill as well.

First question- Is it acceptable to treat both my mash and sparge water with the same Salt additions and then just split the water afterwards. As in treat all 9.5 gallons of water to the desired figures and then use 4.5 of it for my mash and the other 5 for my sparge water?

Here is the Water Profile I currently have setup.

Ca+2 mg+2 Na+ Cl- SO4-2
147.9 14.7 10.2 56.2 350.0

Is this a decent start? If not please help me adjust anything you see wrong.

Thanks Jake
Click to expand...

I recall several people whirlpooling at 180F. That is what I did and it was the best beer I've ever brewed.
 
Can someone clarify the dry hop schedule from the "current best" recipe on page 1?
It says dry hops at day 8 in the main recipe. Then down below 14 and 21.
It also says split hops in half. So for example just 2 separate .25 additions of apollo?
 
What I did was,I mixed all the dry hops together and put 1/2 in on day 14 and the other 1/2 on day 21

should be putting it on gas tomorrow or Friday so I really haven't tried it yet.
 
OG of 1.074.
Day 9 and at 1.014.
Should I go to secondary and start dry hopping? What am I gaining by waiting until day 14 and 21 to dry hop?
 
Jmash said:
OG of 1.074.
Day 9 and at 1.014.
Should I go to secondary and start dry hopping? What am I gaining by waiting until day 14 and 21 to dry hop?
Click to expand...

Go for it, except I personally would do the first dry hop in the primary fermenter. This way, there is more yeast available that can use any oxygen introduced during the dry hop addition. The 14 and 21 day schedule is there to make it easy to know when the dry hop additions can be added. If you add them on day 9, just know to add dry hop #2 on day 16. Or change it up and go shorter/longer, whatever you're comfortable with.
 
Beer came out really well. Still haven't tried Heady so don't know what to compare to. As far as preference in taste though I was thinking of foregoing the hopshot next time and maybe doing the 60 with an oz of warrior. Beer is a tad more bitter than I prefer. Maybe could use something to make it more "heady" too.
 
So I don't have time to read through the entire thread but I am wanting to brew this recipe but I don't have access to Heady Topper to harvest the yeast.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before in this thread and if so, I apologize, but I was going to use Vermont Yeast from the Yeast Bay. Is that supposedly the same strain used for Heady Topper? If not, oh well, I'm sure it will work fine but I was just wondering.

Cheers!
 
MMJfan said:
So I don't have time to read through the entire thread but I am wanting to brew this recipe but I don't have access to Heady Topper to harvest the yeast.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before in this thread and if so, I apologize, but I was going to use Vermont Yeast from the Yeast Bay. Is that supposedly the same strain used for Heady Topper? If not, oh well, I'm sure it will work fine but I was just wondering.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Yep, that is Conan
 
Has anyone tried skadoosh (any #) against heady? Knowing that skadoosh is 100% perle malt (per this video [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STPOtTaSqEA[/ame]), anyone able to taste the difference in the malt build between 100% perle vs. heady? Is it possible heady is 100% perle?

As a side note, the boil kettles in that video at :41, when he is adding the lupulin to the whirlpool - why are the hatches so low? is he only using 1/4 of the boil kettles (if those are the boil kettles?)
 
bobbrews said:
I believe the mystery hop we are all missing is Comet. There is likely no Amarillo in Heady Topper.



It has also been stated several times that Kimmich does not boil any hops for Heady Topper. He relies on HopShot for nearly, if not 100% of the IBUs in this beer. So, instead of a hefty 8.50 oz. mixed hops at 5 minutes and 0 minutes, it is likely that Kimmich uses slightly more HopShot, and implements a warm hopstand around 165 F for all of the hopstand hops instead. This temp. is below the 167F myrcene boiloff threshold. Myrcene is that hop compound that offers floral/citrusy/pine.

Lastly, I've never seen a commercial clone or brewed an IIPA whereupon the recipe called for more hopstand hops than dryhops. The dryhop regimen always contains the largest amount of total recipe hops by weight. Pliny, Double Jack, Head Hunter, Tricerahops, Kern Citra, and Alpine all go by this idealogy.

For that reason, I think there is likely 6 to 7 oz. dryhops per 5 gallons beer and only 5 to 6 oz. total hopstand hops per 5 gallon batch.

1.074 / 1.011

86.9% Pearl Malt
4.60% Corn Sugar or Turbinado
4.60% White Wheat
3.90% Caramalt

13-14 ml HopShot @ 90 Minutes (shoot for about 155-170 IBUs)
2.50 oz. Simcoe @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
1.00 oz. Centennial @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
0.75 oz. Columbus @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
0.75 oz. Comet @ 160 F, 45 Minute Hopstand
1.50 oz. Simcoe @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Centennial @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Columbus @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
1.50 oz. Comet @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop
0.50 oz. Apollo @ 8 day, Two-Stage Dry Hop

Conan @ 63 F, then ramp up to 68-70 F after ferm slows down/completes.
Click to expand...


Just got some TYB Vermont ale and got everything except comet. Do I need to switch it for Amarillo?

I am heading for no boil hops and no flameout hops as stated up there.


Thanks
 

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