Heady Topper- Can you clone it?
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I made this this weekend; well the Farmhouse Brewing kit that is based off of this thread. The kit is great! It lays out everything to make the brew day nice and efficient. However, I had a question about the yeast. The kit comes with a package of liquid Omega Yeast DIPA. I usually like to make a 1L starter on a stirplate prior to my brew day, but I have been reading about how Alchemist likes to underpitch the yeast so I just pitched the slurry as-is. The yeast calculator says that a normal DIPA at 1.073 would need 250B cells but the Omega Yeast package has 150B.
Anyone else try it this way? Like I wrote, with my starter I might have close to 300B cells but I want the yeast to be stressed to produce the peach aroma that I love about HT. In the past, I would just make a big starter, pitch it and it would do its thing. I pitched it yesterday and have seen no signs of fermentation yet (the wort is at about 62 degrees). Normally its bubbling away by now, so I feel like I'm back to being a very beginner!
After the last few batches where I've been dialing in and locking down my brew day technique, I am finally turning my attention to yeast, fermentation temps, and minimizing oxygen and maximizing hop aroma and flavor.
Anyone else try it this way? Like I wrote, with my starter I might have close to 300B cells but I want the yeast to be stressed to produce the peach aroma that I love about HT. In the past, I would just make a big starter, pitch it and it would do its thing. I pitched it yesterday and have seen no signs of fermentation yet (the wort is at about 62 degrees). Normally its bubbling away by now, so I feel like I'm back to being a very beginner!
After the last few batches where I've been dialing in and locking down my brew day technique, I am finally turning my attention to yeast, fermentation temps, and minimizing oxygen and maximizing hop aroma and flavor.
stickyfinger
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that yeast can be finicky and leave a ton of sugars behind. my best attenuation came by keeping it at 68F throughout and then raising to 72F near the end.
Thanks! I’ll probably raise it up to 68 tonight when I get home.
Update: I got home and inched it up a few degrees. There was nothing indicating any fermentation beginning so I pitched a slurry of Conan I had harvested a few weeks ago from two cans of HT and this morning it was beginning to get moving.
I haven’t seen it since fermentation kicked off since we are traveling for Thanksgiving (hence my desire to get fermentation going early in the week). But it had a nice orange-y color prior and at the beginning of fermentation. But I’ve made NEIPAs before and they appeared pretty amber/honey-colored in the fermenter but came out that almost fluorescent orange color in the glass.
Tapped the keg on this on Saturday. Really great! I think its about 95% of HT. It was very orange and hazy.
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rideincircles
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I made my 2nd batch of this over the weekend, but had a few modifications based on my hop supply. I used the first page grain bill, but used apollo at 75 and 45, with some other hops at 15 minutes also. Not 100% to the recipe, but since my last recipe with hopshot did not achieve the bitterness required, I adjusted it to use what I have. The caramalt was replaced with crystal 10 since it was not listed at my brew store. Not 100% certain that was the right substitution.
I used the omega yeast with 2 packs and made a 3l starter. The hops I used were apollo, simcoe, amarillo, mosaic and el dorado. I added gypsum during the mash, but should have reread through the last few pages to add some to the acidified sparge water and boil kettle. I pitched yeast at 67 degrees and did not notice my temp controller was unplugged and it hit 74 degrees 24 hours later before getting it back to 67 degrees. Will see how it fares after that, but I am not too worried. My goal is 3 week turnaround for bluebonnet coming up and hope to improve on my last score. I have been lazy on doing brewing research, but will get back on the case this year. OG was 1.074 with about 10.5 gallons.
I used the omega yeast with 2 packs and made a 3l starter. The hops I used were apollo, simcoe, amarillo, mosaic and el dorado. I added gypsum during the mash, but should have reread through the last few pages to add some to the acidified sparge water and boil kettle. I pitched yeast at 67 degrees and did not notice my temp controller was unplugged and it hit 74 degrees 24 hours later before getting it back to 67 degrees. Will see how it fares after that, but I am not too worried. My goal is 3 week turnaround for bluebonnet coming up and hope to improve on my last score. I have been lazy on doing brewing research, but will get back on the case this year. OG was 1.074 with about 10.5 gallons.
gifty74
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How have these been turning out for those that currently have some on tap, and some to compare to the real thing? Is it spot on, as in blind triangle tests one is not able to be distinguished from the other?
cheesebach
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I made a version of this recently with a few adjustments:
1) I didn't have access to hop extract locally, so i used warrior for bittering, targeting 105 IBUs (a bit under the estimated contribution from the hop shot in the OP). It was WAY too bitter. I'm guessing utilization of the hop shot isn't nearly as high as it claims to be, since I've never thought heady tasted more bitter than other DIPAs in the 8-9% ABV range. I'd probably target something closer to 70 IBUs from the bittering charge next time if using pellets instead of extract.
2) Followed a recommendation earlier in the thread of just combining all the hops into a single bag and mixing and then weighing out additions for flame out, whirlpool, and dry hop from the 15oz of combined hops. I had 5oz of simcoe (1/3rd total hops by weight), and thought it was too much simcoe compared to heady.
1) I didn't have access to hop extract locally, so i used warrior for bittering, targeting 105 IBUs (a bit under the estimated contribution from the hop shot in the OP). It was WAY too bitter. I'm guessing utilization of the hop shot isn't nearly as high as it claims to be, since I've never thought heady tasted more bitter than other DIPAs in the 8-9% ABV range. I'd probably target something closer to 70 IBUs from the bittering charge next time if using pellets instead of extract.
2) Followed a recommendation earlier in the thread of just combining all the hops into a single bag and mixing and then weighing out additions for flame out, whirlpool, and dry hop from the 15oz of combined hops. I had 5oz of simcoe (1/3rd total hops by weight), and thought it was too much simcoe compared to heady.
gifty74
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Yeah, reading that 10ibu per 1ml, and then a loss of some utilization if you are above 1.050 OG. So estimate should probably be closer to 80-90 from the 10ml hop shot. Also depends on the AA% of the hop extract. I just ordered a can that is 61% AA.
Beersmith is estimating 70ibu in 5.5g batch of 1.075 OG wort, 60 min boil, with 12ml of the 61% hop extract. That and the fact that it's a smoother presentation of bitterness than pellets, makes sense that you feel it's way too bitter at 105 ibu estimate.
cheesebach
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Thanks for the input - it sounds like I maybe mistakenly assumed that the hop shot IBU calculation in the OP was being estimated in the same way as the bittering addition in my BS software. It looks like the OP IBU estimates are coming from beersmith or a similar software also though - maybe beersmith has been updated to more accurately predict the IBUs based on wort gravity since the OP was created? I didn't try putting in a 10ml hop shot in BS to see what it would give me, but I'll check that out when I get a chance.
I was a bit surprised by the result, since it looked as though I was targeting less bitterness to begin with (105 vs. 120 IBUs, and adding hops at flameout instead of a 5 min addition). Also, there were a few posts in this thread that mentioned not achieving enough bitterness when using a clean bittering hop like magnum/warrior in place of the hop shot.
cheesebach
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Yep - just tried a 10ml 60%AA hop shot 90 min boil addition in beersmith with this grainbill, and it's estimated at just under 60 IBUs. Only half of the estimate from the same addition in the OP. That explains a lot...
Tricerahops220
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What was the final verdict on the recipe? Which one was the final one?
stickyfinger
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does anyone else hate the flavor of Pearl malt? I’ve made 5 IPAs with it now, and it tastes kind of iodiney to me. maybe i have a bad lot
Cavpilot2000
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Here's a question: Why would you want to clone Heady Topper?
I mean, it's a fine beer, but unless you think that Heady is the greatest thing ever and want a beer exactly like it, why not just learn how to make a good NEIPA of your own and customize it to your taste?
My favorite NEIPA is Treehouse's Julius, and I used that as the basis for building my NEIPA recipe, but once I got "close enough", I started tweaking to my own taste to make something I actually like better.
I mean, it's a fine beer, but unless you think that Heady is the greatest thing ever and want a beer exactly like it, why not just learn how to make a good NEIPA of your own and customize it to your taste?
My favorite NEIPA is Treehouse's Julius, and I used that as the basis for building my NEIPA recipe, but once I got "close enough", I started tweaking to my own taste to make something I actually like better.
stickyfinger
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stirring the pot i see. i absolutely love Heady Topper and Focal Banger. They beat most of the NEIPAs I've tasted. I haven't tasted any Trillium or Treehouse ones yet though. I have tasted several Hill Farmstead beers and prefer HT and FB most of the time.
My goal in cloning it is so that I can have it whenever I want, as it is nearly impossible to get outside of VT.
Cavpilot2000
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Fair enough.
Ask a simple question, get a simple answer!
Thanks for taking the question at face value and treating it for what it was - a question.
The current favorite here is the Julius clone - I've done 20 gallons since September and it doesn't last long.
But I started doing neipas by rattling through every Alchemist clone I could lay hands on, because they were the most mature recipes "Back Then" and I appreciated the leg up.
I acknowledge once the neipa process variations from "traditional" ipa brewing are comprehended it's true one could easily go off on their own and come up with a comparable non-cloned product...
Cheers!
But I started doing neipas by rattling through every Alchemist clone I could lay hands on, because they were the most mature recipes "Back Then" and I appreciated the leg up.
I acknowledge once the neipa process variations from "traditional" ipa brewing are comprehended it's true one could easily go off on their own and come up with a comparable non-cloned product...
Cheers!
stickyfinger
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what is your best julius recipe?
Tricerahops220
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I am interested to know as well
There's a whole raft of recipes using entirely different hops but I went with the BYO recipe with slight changes (Columbus instead of the hop shot, water adjustments to suit my RO water, etc).
fwiw, the last batch I split five gallons using 1318 and the other five using Conan (Imperial A04) and everyone that tried both preferred the 1318...
Cheers!
fwiw, the last batch I split five gallons using 1318 and the other five using Conan (Imperial A04) and everyone that tried both preferred the 1318...
Cheers!
rideincircles
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Just confirming that my recent version of this mentioned above is totally amazing. After 6 years of brewing its probably my favorite IPA
I've done. I entered it in bluebonnet this year and will find out in a month or so how it fared. I think it can hang with any double IPA you can throw it up against. Not overly bitter but solid, resiny, dank, insanely citrus and fruity and easy enough to drink for people who aren't even IPA fans. I think I nailed what I have been trying to achieve. Mine used apollo for bittering and simcoe, el dorado, mosaic and amarillo. Just ordered another $100 in hops from farmhouse so should be good to go for a while to change it up slightly like I always do for my next batch.
I've done. I entered it in bluebonnet this year and will find out in a month or so how it fared. I think it can hang with any double IPA you can throw it up against. Not overly bitter but solid, resiny, dank, insanely citrus and fruity and easy enough to drink for people who aren't even IPA fans. I think I nailed what I have been trying to achieve. Mine used apollo for bittering and simcoe, el dorado, mosaic and amarillo. Just ordered another $100 in hops from farmhouse so should be good to go for a while to change it up slightly like I always do for my next batch.
Anyone tried this recipe? http://blog.eckraus.com/heady-topper-double-ipa-clone-recipe
I bought the hops to do it, was planning on next weekend, but then I started reading about Summit and bad onion taste and i'm not sure anymore...that recipe relies on 4.5oz of Summit which is a lot.
I guess I could use it only for bittering, and substitute the rest for something like Simcoe or Amarillo?. Any advice?
I bought the hops to do it, was planning on next weekend, but then I started reading about Summit and bad onion taste and i'm not sure anymore...that recipe relies on 4.5oz of Summit which is a lot.
I guess I could use it only for bittering, and substitute the rest for something like Simcoe or Amarillo?. Any advice?
stickyfinger
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i thought that looked like a good recipe, even if very not by the book
Went ahead and brewed the same recipe from the website I mentioned earlier, except I substituted 2 oz of summit for 2 oz of simcoe (kept the summit at 2.5oz/60min for bittering)
I somehow forgot to include the 1lbs of wheat though!!
I tasted a small sample and it was extremely bitter, I guess I'll see how it turns out after fermentation and dry-hop.
I somehow forgot to include the 1lbs of wheat though!!
I tasted a small sample and it was extremely bitter, I guess I'll see how it turns out after fermentation and dry-hop.
OzarkPA
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Hey all - I was thinking about doing a gallon micro-batch in my gallon ukeg. It's been a few years since my last batch of this and checking to see if anyone had any suggestions for sizing it for a gallon final product.
OzarkPA
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Beautiful! I'm thinking it might not be worth the work to go through a 1 gallon batch and just do a 5 gallon batch, store the beer uncarbonated in the fridge, and then carbonate a gallon at a time.
aaronm13
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Hi, looking to brew this clone soon so just wondering a few things while I get my ingredients together. I've read back over the last 10 pages or so and can't find answers to my questions or maybe I missed them, is the recipe on the first page still the best and closest option to Heady? Want to make sure I get everything I need.
I can't get hop shots so going to bitter with Columbus. Am I correct using this bittering hop and is around 55-60 IBU's what I need to be aiming for?
I've made a few NEIPA's now and always dry hop at 48-60 hours for biotransformation as I thought this was essential to this style. On the first page it says to split the dry hop at day 14 and 21 which I found strange, is this correct? I'll probably do I big dry hop as I like to dry hop in the keg to minimize oxygen. What would be the correct day schedule for me to dry hop? Thanks in advance for everything. Really looking forward to making this as I doubt I'll ever get to try the real thing.
I can't get hop shots so going to bitter with Columbus. Am I correct using this bittering hop and is around 55-60 IBU's what I need to be aiming for?
I've made a few NEIPA's now and always dry hop at 48-60 hours for biotransformation as I thought this was essential to this style. On the first page it says to split the dry hop at day 14 and 21 which I found strange, is this correct? I'll probably do I big dry hop as I like to dry hop in the keg to minimize oxygen. What would be the correct day schedule for me to dry hop? Thanks in advance for everything. Really looking forward to making this as I doubt I'll ever get to try the real thing.
I've separated the dry hop like that and also done all at once, I don't think it's worth the trouble.
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The original recipe is old school thinking. To minimize post fermentation diacetyl, adding all the time frame your talking is important.
couchsending
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From everything I’ve read and heard and from what I’ve smelled and tasted Alchemist beers are not dry hopped during fermentation. Heady is only dry hopped one time (as are all their hoppy beers) and as much yeast is removed before dry hopping as possible. With Conan that can mean crashing to 45 for a while as it doesn’t like to flocc. I believe they recirculate through a Grundy filled with bagged pellets. John has said no more than 5 days on the hops for a dry hop addition and he has recommended what is basically 4.5-5oz per 5 gallons but I don’t think that scales well. You get more utilization with the bigger FVs.
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