Grainy tasting beer

[scottyg354]

Hey guys, I have had an issue twice now that is starting to get annoying. I have had two beers turn out really grainy/bready tasting. They were both smaller beers cream ale/scotch ale. I don't know if i'm not using enough hops or what. Now a lot of grain get in the wort. Maybe 1/4 tsp. I'm at a loss. Any suggestions.

 

[worksnorth]

Maybe list your ingredients, including the yeast you used. May help someone spot an issue?

 

[scottyg354]

Sorry.

7lbs 2 row
2 lbs flaked rice
1/2 lb honey malt
.5 oz Saaz @ 60 min
.5 oz Saaz. @ 10 min
Safale US-05

Mashed at 150 for 1 hour

 

[mattd2]

From how to brew ed 1 (web version)

Husky / Grainy
These flavors are akin to the astringent flavors produced from the grain husks. These flavors are more evident in all-grain beers due to poor grain crushing or sparging practices. If the grain husks are shredded during crushing by the use of a Corona grain mill for instance, these husk flavors are more likely to be extracted during the sparge. Follow the same procedures recommended to prevent astringency to correct the problem.

Astringent
Astringency differs from bitterness by having a puckering quality, like sucking on a tea bag. It is dry, kind of powdery and is often the result of steeping grains too long or when the pH of the mash exceeds the range of 5.2 - 5.6. Oversparging the mash or using water that is too hot are common causes for exceeding the mash pH range. It can also be caused by over-hopping during either the bittering or finishing stages. Bacterial infections can also cause astringency, i.e. vinegar tones from aceto bacteria.

The brown scum that forms during fermentation and clings to the side of the fermentor is intensely bitter and if it is stirred back into the beer it will cause very astringent tastes. The scum should be removed from the beer, either by letting it cling undisturbed to the sides of an oversize fermentor, or by skimming it off the krausen, or blowing off the krausen itself from a 5 gallon carboy. I have never had any problems by simply letting it cling to the sides of the fermentor.

What temp did you dough in / sparge at?

 

[lakesidebier]

I am assuming that this is a 5 gallon batch. I dumped this in BrewSmith real quick and came up with 11.4 IBU's at 4% AA. That's just really low. My opinion; you need to bump up the hops.

 

[mattd2]

I am assuming that this is a 5 gallon batch. I dumped this in BrewSmith real quick and came up with 11.4 IBU's at 4% AA. That's just really low. My opinion; you need to bump up the hops.

I would advise that if the problem was malty. A grainy taste makes me think process issue rather than recipe. For a cream ale/scotch ale the IBUs are not that far off.

 

[scottyg354]

I don't have the recipe readily available. I was trying to remember. My ingredients might be offa bit. The beer was at 4.7 and 16 ibu's. it was a cream ale. The beer doesn't taste astringent. Mashed @ 150 strike temp was 162, I usually sparge between 168 and 170. I am thinking this is more of a balance issue. Next time I do this beer I am going to try to get it in the 20ibu area which is the max for a cream ale via bjcp guidelines.

 

[scottyg354]

I would advise that if the problem was malty. A grainy taste makes me think process issue rather than recipe. For a cream ale/scotch ale the IBUs are not that far off.

Maybe it is malty. I just alway place malty with sweetness. The beer is dry, just tastes bready. Not astringent like.

 

[Komocabo]

9Lbs of grain and 1/2 lb of honey make an 11% beer? Did you punch 19lbs of grain? That seems way too high

 

[mattd2]

Maybe it is malty. I just alway place malty with sweetness. The beer is dry, just tastes bready. Not astringent like.

Yeah it's a tough one when trying to explain what you taste in words
Bready would be a recipe, did you use a different base malt like MO which is apparently a bit more biscuity?
Come to think of it maybe the honey malt is giving you the flavour. I seem to recall somewhere mention that the flavour is more biscuity than actual honey

 

[scottyg354]

9Lbs of grain and 1/2 lb of honey make an 11% beer? Did you punch 19lbs of grain? That seems way too high

Not sure where you got 11% from. 4.7% and 14ibus.

 

[mattd2]

9Lbs of grain and 1/2 lb of honey make an 11% beer? Did you punch 19lbs of grain? That seems way too high

huh? it was 4.7%, lakeside guessed 11.4IBUs @ 4%. Noone said anything about 11% abv

 

[scottyg354]

Yeah it's a tough one when trying to explain what you taste in words
Bready would be a recipe, did you use a different base malt like MO which is apparently a bit more biscuity?
Come to think of it maybe the honey malt is giving you the flavour. I seem to recall somewhere mention that the flavour is more biscuity than actual honey

Nope just breis two row. I'm thinking I'm associating mealtimes with breadiness. Tastes almost like a lightly toasted piece of white bread.

 

[mattd2]

Nope just breis two row. I'm thinking I'm associating mealtimes with breadiness. Tastes almost like a lightly toasted piece of white bread.

Just found this description for honey malt

From Paddock Wood Brewing:
"Malt sweetness and honey like flavour and aroma make it perfect for any specialty beer. The closest comparison is a light caramel, but Honey Malt has a flavour of its own: sweet and a little bit nutty. Made by restricting the oxygen flow during the sprouting process, Honey Malt is essentially self-stewed. When the oxygen is cut off, the grain bed heats up, developing sugars and rich malt flavours. The malt is lightly kilned for a color color profile of 25 SRM and is devoid of astringent roast flavors. Honey malt has a diastatic power of 50, and can convert itself but not additional adjuncts. It is best mashed with a base malt. Use up to 25% in specialty beers for a unique flavour."

Any chance you are tasting nutty? You only have 5% of it but maybe you are tasting it.
I guess the question is does the scotch ale have honey malt in it?

 

[BorealBrewer]

The same toasty, bready character as in a dry champagne?

That could be coming from the yeast cake. How long was the beer on the lees?

 

[scottyg354]

Just found this description for honey malt

Any chance you are tasting nutty? You only have 5% of it but maybe you are tasting it.
I guess the question is does the scotch ale have honey malt in it?

Nope it had British Pale and Roasted Barley. Just went a grabbed my copy of Designing Great Beers and read about honey malt. Says it has an intense maltiness. I guess that could be what I am tasting. It's definetely a grain based flavor and not astringent. When I make my next batch I think I am going to combine 2 row and 6 Row with the flaked rice and see if I notice a difference. I am also going to up my IBU's a tad.

 

[scottyg354]

The same toasty, bready character as in a dry champagne?

That could be coming from the yeast cake. How long was the beer on the lees?

Only on the lees for two weeks. Then straight to keg. Finished carbing up yesterday and tried some today.

 

[Komocabo]

I read 11.4%ABV, not IBUs... Sorry for the confusion! I blame the IPA on that one.
~Cheers

 

[scottyg354]

Have to start this thread back up as I am starting to get pissed of now. I just tasted my Wheat beer and it also tastes like grain. This is starting to drive me nuts. Could it be the 2 Row? I have no clue what I am doing wrong. Should I mash in a little warmer than 150 on my beers? I am making sure that the grains are cracked but the husks are still intact.

 

[Klickmania]

You using anything for ph correction?

Also, how clear are you getting these beers?

 

[scottyg354]

My cream ale is clear as we speak. Also, my wheat beer really isn't clear but it has the same taste as my cream ale.

Should I be testing and adjusting pH? What level is good for brewing?

 

[Klickmania]

Most people will try to get their mash in the 5.2 to 5.6 range. A lot if people use various salts to bring the ph in the right range. It all depends on be water profile and what's in the mash so it's different every time. There is a lot that goes into it that I don fully understand (just yet), but I know you can get off flavors from too high or too low of a ph in the mash. Might be something to look into.

 

[fusa]

I had a Belgian Triple and Dubbel turn out very grainy. I'm not 100% positive of what the cause was. But for those two batches I might have over crushed the grain. I do remeber around the time I made those running my drill at full speed to crush the grains. Since then I bought a VSR drill and only run it at slow speed. The grainy taste has not returned.

 

[cjb]

Yeah, I'm guessing water - if the same flavor is showing up in 3 beers, you have to start looking for common factors. Are you using tap water, and do you have a water report for your local water company? Have you tried using store-bought spring water or starting from distilled and building it up?

 

[scottyg354]

Ive been buying water from the same company. I am going to switch brands this weekend when I do my saison.

 

[scottyg354]

Ive been buying water from the same company. I am going to switch brands this weekend when I do my saison.

There were no off flavors with their water when I was extract brewing.

 

[hopdoc]

This could be a sparge issue... What temperature is the sparge water? I shoot for about 170 degrees.

You could also be over-sparging. Try to stop the sparge when the mash runnings reach 1.010. Keep in mind to adjust the gravity reading for hot wort.

Another thing could be the type of grain you are using, maybe switch grains....

Yeast could also create these flavors, but you probably used the same yeast when you brewed extract...

 

[Klickmania]

Dunno if it's just me but I shoot for 190 degrees for my sparge water. Tannin extraction only really becomes a problem with too high if a mash ph, not temperature.

 

[scottyg354]

I am thinking it might be sparge related. Maybe I should do a BIAB with the saison and see if I notice a difference. I was thinking of actually buying a sparge arm.

 

[hopdoc]

Tannin extraction only really becomes a problem with too high if a mash ph, not temperature.

I always thought it was both..... I usually sit around 170-180 and have no problems..... Wow glad to hear that though, maybe now I won't worry so much.....