Grainy tasting beer

[Klickmania]

Read through this post. I asked about water volumes and stuff but Denny chimed in with some batch sparging and efficiency info. He's somewhat of a home brewing legend. He's got a Wyeast strain named after him if you're not familiar with him lol.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/few-issues-my-sparge-water-volumes-gravity-388798/

I've heard of guys doing experiments with sparge water at different temperatures (170 to boiling) and they hardly found any difference in efficiency.

 

[scottyg354]

Well I am going to try a no sparge batch. Was just reading about that method. If all turns out well, the I will assume it is something with my sparge. I adjusted beersmith accordingly. Since concensus seems to be that there is about a 10% drop in effeciency from sparging.

 

[scottyg354]

Ok guys, I have a quick question. Is it possible to oversparge with a batch sparge? I think this might be my problem. I have been using the wrong equipment profile in BeerSmith and were I would have ended up with 5 gallons of finished wort I end up with 6.5 gallons at the 5 gallon recipe. Not wanting to waste I make the beer anyways, which always ends up grainy tasting. So is this possible? Could the extra gallon and a half that I had on the past 3 brews be causing this?

 

[-MG-]

I find your issue interesting as it's borderline what I am running into:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/going-off-flavor-issue-399056/

I could see describing my off flavor like how you are describing yours. I call mine a honey-like (but bready can also pass), with a smooth slick after taste.

I tried a different base malt without luck. My city's water is suppose to be unbelievable, but I am contemplating trying RO water to see what happens.

 

[scottyg354]

I find your issue interesting as it's borderline what I am running into:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/going-off-flavor-issue-399056/

I could see describing my off flavor like how you are describing yours. I call mine a honey-like (but bready can also pass), with a smooth slick after taste.

I tried a different base malt without luck. My city's water is suppose to be unbelievable, but I am contemplating trying RO water to see what happens.

I am using water from a bottling company, that the owner of my LHBS uses and he has no problems. I think I was just overcalculating and this oversparging. Its the only answer I can come up with.

 

[Klickmania]

Ok guys, I have a quick question. Is it possible to oversparge with a batch sparge? I think this might be my problem. I have been using the wrong equipment profile in BeerSmith and were I would have ended up with 5 gallons of finished wort I end up with 6.5 gallons at the 5 gallon recipe. Not wanting to waste I make the beer anyways, which always ends up grainy tasting. So is this possible? Could the extra gallon and a half that I had on the past 3 brews be causing this?

It's definitely possible to over sparge while batch sparging. I was running into some volume/low OG numbers because I had too much sparge water from my calculations. Are you just putting 5 gallons into the fermenter and dumping the rest? I ended up boiling the extra wort off with an extra 30 minutes in the boil so it threw off my aroma hop additions but thats about it (beer ended up excellent FYI). I can see how that would definitely affect your flavor profile though. How have your FG/OG numbers been?

If you're OG is coming in way low you've got too much water in the wort and your hop utilization is is gonna be crap as well. You can also extract some off flavors from over sparging at too high of a temperature and mash pH.

 

[Yooper]

Ok guys, I have a quick question. Is it possible to oversparge with a batch sparge? I think this might be my problem. I have been using the wrong equipment profile in BeerSmith and were I would have ended up with 5 gallons of finished wort I end up with 6.5 gallons at the 5 gallon recipe. Not wanting to waste I make the beer anyways, which always ends up grainy tasting. So is this possible? Could the extra gallon and a half that I had on the past 3 brews be causing this?

It's definitely possible to over sparge while batch sparging. I was running into some volume/low OG numbers because I had too much sparge water from my calculations. Are you just putting 5 gallons into the fermenter and dumping the rest? I ended up boiling the extra wort off with an extra 30 minutes in the boil so it threw off my aroma hop additions but thats about it (beer ended up excellent FYI). I can see how that would definitely affect your flavor profile though. How have your FG/OG numbers been?

If you're OG is coming in way low you've got too much water in the wort and your hop utilization is is gonna be crap as well. You can also extract some off flavors from over sparging at too high of a temperature and mash pH.

I can't imaging oversparging with batch sparging, unless you're running a TON of water through the sparge and boiling down for hours.

You may have more sparge runnings, but "oversparging" has to do with pH of the SG of the runnings and not how many gallons you've got in the kettle.

I need to go back to water chemistry. I would strongly suggest using reverse osmosis (RO) water for one batch. If that fixes the issue, you know it's the water.

 

[duboman]

I could see describing my off flavor like how you are describing yours. I call mine a honey-like (but bready can also pass), with a smooth slick after taste."

This could be diacetyl

 

[scottyg354]

I can't imaging oversparging with batch sparging, unless you're running a TON of water through the sparge and boiling down for hours.

You may have more sparge runnings, but "oversparging" has to do with pH of the SG of the runnings and not how many gallons you've got in the kettle.

I need to go back to water chemistry. I would strongly suggest using reverse osmosis (RO) water for one batch. If that fixes the issue, you know it's the water.

Problem is I have no clue were to find RO water. Any suggestions?

 

[scottyg354]

Hey guys, can I use distilled water instead of RO?

 

[Yooper]

Hey guys, can I use distilled water instead of RO?

Sure.

RO water is usually the water in those big "water machines". I've seen them in grocery stores, and places like Wal-mart.

I ended up buying my own RO water system, though, because I got tired of hauling gallons of water home from the store once I started doing 10 gallon batches!

 

[BridgeBrew]

My bet is the Honey malt. When you get up to the half pound range it starts to taste like concentrated honey/musty grain. It overpowers other grains and hops. The beer I did with that much honey is drinkable, but its flat out a bit weird. Cut that honey malt down to 4oz next time and you will enjoy it a lot more.

 

[scottyg354]

Local pet store sells RO for 0.49 gallon. If I get this do I need to add anything or just brew with it as is?

 

[Jimmyjim]

Local pet store sells RO for 0.49 gallon. If I get this do I need to add anything or just brew with it as is?

First off, that is rather pricey for RO.

To your question. Here is some light reading.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/


Cheers

 

[scottyg354]

Sorry about all these questions. I am paying close to 4 dollards for 5 gallons of the water I am currently using so 2.50 for 5 gallons of something that may work isn't a problem.

 

[FarmerTed]

Have you tried cold-conditioning your beer? I ask because my last beer (a saison) initially had a very grainy flavor to it (i didn't use any honey or xtal malt). However, after about two weeks at 30 F (in the bottle), much of that flavor seemed to have faded.

 

[scottyg354]

I am going to attempt it with the pale ale. My brown ale I have going now doesn't taste grainy. I am assuming it is water chem as only my very light beers have this problem. I like the idea of RO because I can create my own chemistry.

 

[scottyg354]

Basically what I have setup for this weekend is a golden strong. Can I used straight RO for this as a test to see ph and what not or should I adjust according to style? Any sights that can give me adjustments to RO according to style?

 

[scottyg354]

Well guys, the water in using has a ph of 7.2 verified by strips and digital meter. So I assuming this explains my problem.

 

[scottyg354]

Or does the mash lower the ph and I'm talking like a fool?

 

[FarmerTed]

The mash lowers the pH; you need to measure the mash/sparge pH levels.

 

[scottyg354]

Let me ask you guys this. What are the chances of a beer being to young and cloudy causing this? I just tried my cream ale that I kegged in December after only two weeks in the fermenter. Tasted grainy and was cloudy. Now 3 months later it cleared and doesn't taste grainy at all. Any thoughts?

Perhaps I should secondary my beers and cold condition before bottling or cold condition in my kegs? Or maybe im drinking my beer way to young?

 

[FarmerTed]

All I can say is that in my experience, a couple weeks of cold conditioning can do a lot for a beer.

 

[scottyg354]

Good deal. I really appreciate all the help guys.

 

[pjj2ba]

Let me ask you guys this. What are the chances of a beer being to young and cloudy causing this? I just tried my cream ale that I kegged in December after only two weeks in the fermenter. Tasted grainy and was cloudy. Now 3 months later it cleared and doesn't taste grainy at all. Any thoughts?

Perhaps I should secondary my beers and cold condition before bottling or cold condition in my kegs? Or maybe im drinking my beer way to young?

I suspect it is the yeast. I use about 6 different yeast on my various brews and they all have a different taste - the yeast themselves that is, not just the beer. I also keg and of course the first couple of pints when I tap a new keg are a little cloudy with yeast. This has a big impact on the flavor. I never judge a beer until it is pouring clear. Try a different yeast and see if the flavor changes (while still cloudy). If it does, then you know it is the yeast

Also sitting on the lees (a wine making term) can definitely result in some bready notes in a beer, particularly if the temperature is a bit on the warmer side. This will persist longer than after the beer clears

 

[scottyg354]

For those of you wondering this was the original grainy culprit. I kegged it after a week and a half since it was a low OG beer. Started drinking at two weeks and it was cloudy and grainy tasting. Sampled it probably every two weeks. After two and a half months at 40 degrees the graininess is gone. I am now thinking if I conditioned in keg at room temp and cold crashes for a week or two then carbed the grainy flavors would have never been there. I am starting too think I'm drinking my beer way too young.

 

[FarmerTed]

I think that grainy taste probably shows up in lighter beers with low hop profiles, which you seem to be brewing. You wouldn't taste in much in a young ipa. But I know exactly what you're talking about. It's not the yeast/bready taste you get in some beers-it tastes more like grain husks. A brewery opened up in my hometown last year, and their first beer was a wit. They clearly rushed it, and I swear it had this grainy taste to it that I can only compare to the taste of an old straw broom. Maybe it's something that the yeast carries, or I guess it could be tannins from the grain, but it does go away.

 

[scottyg354]

Yes, this is not a bitter tannic taste. I can pick the tannins out in a nice big Cabernet and the taste I am talking about doesn't fit that profile. Imagine a slight cheerio'ish flavor at the end of your beer. This beer finished out nicely now though. From now on its at least month conditions before I do anything with a beer. Then another 3 weeks carbonating. I drank half of a keg of my cream ale, thinking it was bad.