Grainfather!!

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My grainfather just delivered today. Built it up and did a test boil, test pump. Could have had better photos and instructions but it was managable. 3 gal 120V = 55min to 213F. Aside from time everything is looking handy dandy. Will have a heat stick and reflectix wrap set up Wednesday. Too bad I'm on work trip to TX. Brewing will have to wait but at least I'll have brisket.
 
In the instructions it says before sparging to push down on the top plate until it contacts the top of the grain bed. I go ahead and seat it pretty firmly, slightly compressing the bed. This compaction is usually enough to slow the sparge significantly. It's an intuitive kind of thing--obviously you don't want to push down so hard that you cause a stuck sparge, although i haven't caused one yet. It usually takes me 30-40 minutes to let 3-4 gallons sparge water run through and still getting 80+% brewhouse efficiency.

I must of missed that! Maybe that will improve my eff! My sparge too runs pretty quickly.
 
I must of missed that! Maybe that will improve my eff! My sparge too runs pretty quickly.

IIRC. Guess it could have been in one of the many videos I watched. At any rate, I think it's pretty important for efficient sparging. Before pushing down on the top plate, I noticed there's a 2-3" gap between the top of the grain and the plate due to the grain having settled during the mash. I think that space would allow the grain to suspend during sparging, promoting excessively fast runoff.
 
Yeah that's key. The grain bed will compact almost in half after the mash water runs out and that top plate moves quite a ways down. i push it down until it stops, you begin to see grain try to push up through.
 
IIRC. Guess it could have been in one of the many videos I watched. At any rate, I think it's pretty important for efficient sparging. Before pushing down on the top plate, I noticed there's a 2-3" gap between the top of the grain and the plate due to the grain having settled during the mash. I think that space would allow the grain to suspend during sparging, promoting excessively fast runoff.

It took me 5 brews to figure it out. It was a video with subtitles from someone in Europe that explained the exact process in detail. I have yet to be able to find that video again, but it was confirmed to me by the Grainfather folks that letting the wort mostly drain out, adjust the top plate, and then sparge. I had been sparging right at the end of the boil similar to what I would do with my gravity system. My efficiency was horrible.

Otherwise... I love the Grainfather over both my cooler mash tun and my keggle mash tun gravity systems. Cleanup is so much easier as well.
 
I was excited to see that northern brewer had another 20% deal going on. Sadly I think they caught on and excluded the grainfather like the deal some got last month. I'm going to wait to see if another deal like that comes around
 
So after 3 batches I'm still missing gravity on the low end. From reading the recent posts, next time I'm gonna try letting it drain better before sparge. Also push the top screen down a little more firmly then I have been. I'm missing gravity by 8-10 points. Enough to effect the beer. I'm loving everything about this system. Just wish I knew why I can't hit the marks. Never had a problem with my cooler.
 
I can't explain why pushing that top plate down to the level of the grain makes a difference but it sure has for me. One batch it may have been an inch or two above the grain bed.....50% efficiency. I pushed the plate down in the next batch, 72%

It's the damnedest thing. When I did BIAB in a keggle where the mash was a watery soup I'd routinely get 75% efficiency. I would think that would be the equivalent of a risen Grainfather top plate. My next Grainfather batch I'm going to do a low ABV batch that will accommodate a BIAB no sparge and see how that works.
 
I was excited to see that northern brewer had another 20% deal going on. Sadly I think they caught on and excluded the grainfather like the deal some got last month. I'm going to wait to see if another deal like that comes around

I tried to wait but ended up buying mine on eBay. Prices in December were $780. I used the "Make An Offer" to a seller and they accepted. $800 w/ shipping which I think is pretty good.
 
So after 3 batches I'm still missing gravity on the low end. From reading the recent posts, next time I'm gonna try letting it drain better before sparge. Also push the top screen down a little more firmly then I have been. I'm missing gravity by 8-10 points. Enough to effect the beer. I'm loving everything about this system. Just wish I knew why I can't hit the marks. Never had a problem with my cooler.

I assume you're talking about not reaching your expected OG. Just some things to check/think about:

First, what efficiency are you using to calculate your grain bill? I have my efficiency set to 75% in Beersmith and routinely come in around 4 points higher than expected. So I'm going to raise my efficiency to 80% and see if that fine tunes it a bit. If you have your efficiency set to 90%, and are only getting 75%, then that could explain it. Essentially, you wouldn't be using enough grain to achieve your desired gravity. Are you using roughly 10 lbs to achieve a 1.050 beer?

Second, check your crush. When I narrowed the gap to .025" to achieve a finer crush, my efficiency suffered (i.e. came in at a lower-than-expected OG). When I widened it again to .03" it returned to "normal. " I theorize that the finer crush slowed the recirculation and sparge enough to not extract as many sugars.

Third, check your mash time vs. temps. Are you getting full conversion? I know this is debatable, but if I'm mashing at 147 for a dryer beer, I usually let it go 90 mins. Conversely, if im mashing at 156 for a fuller body, it could be finished in 30 mins. Regardless, if I mash out too early, efficiency will suffer.

Keep on keeping on. You'll get it dialed in. Worse case if you don't want to go through the hassle of figuring it out: just add 1-2 lbs more of grain to your recipes and call it a day.
 
I tried to wait but ended up buying mine on eBay. Prices in December were $780. I used the "Make An Offer" to a seller and they accepted. $800 w/ shipping which I think is pretty good.

Yeah I'm thinking if no one has a deal soon I'm just going to go through adventures in homebrewing. They atleast offer a point system that amounts to 10% in free merchandise.
 
I assume you're talking about not reaching your expected OG. Just some things to check/think about:

First, what efficiency are you using to calculate your grain bill? I have my efficiency set to 75% in Beersmith and routinely come in around 4 points higher than expected. So I'm going to raise my efficiency to 80% and see if that fine tunes it a bit. If you have your efficiency set to 90%, and are only getting 75%, then that could explain it. Essentially, you wouldn't be using enough grain to achieve your desired gravity. Are you using roughly 10 lbs to achieve a 1.050 beer?

Second, check your crush. When I narrowed the gap to .025" to achieve a finer crush, my efficiency suffered (i.e. came in at a lower-than-expected OG). When I widened it again to .03" it returned to "normal. " I theorize that the finer crush slowed the recirculation and sparge enough to not extract as many sugars.

Third, check your mash time vs. temps. Are you getting full conversion? I know this is debatable, but if I'm mashing at 147 for a dryer beer, I usually let it go 90 mins. Conversely, if im mashing at 156 for a fuller body, it could be finished in 30 mins. Regardless, if I mash out too early, efficiency will suffer.

Keep on keeping on. You'll get it dialed in. Worse case if you don't want to go through the hassle of figuring it out: just add 1-2 lbs more of grain to your recipes and call it a day.

I would add to these already great points for improving efficiency the part about making sure the mash tun is correct temp for your mash profile. I have done 3 batches with a second temp probe I bought placed in the mash tun. The 3 batches I have done is telling me the first 30 min of mash is when I see the biggest difference in the 2 temps. My strike water in set 6 - 8 degrees higher for mash in.

If you are doing a mash out it will take 30 plus minutes to get the mash temp to 168F from around 152F. The mash tun temp moves slowly when you increase the controller set temp.

The second temp probe is the singles best upgrade I have done. It might not be necessary for some, but I can increase the controller temp more to run the heater to at least get closer to the mash profile I'm shooting for.

The attached picture show the 2 temp probes in-sync after about 30 minutes of mashing.

IMG_20160308_174441239.jpg
 
I had the efficiency set to 72% and when I adjusted it to match my OG it was 63%. I had 12.5lbs of grain, 10lbs 2-Row. BeerSmith had it at 1.055, I got 1.048. My first batch was similar. I have to check my notes on the second brew, think I was closer that time.
 
I'm an experienced brewer but new to all grain and using the Grainfather. I hear a lot of talk about efficiency and was wondering as to what it is measuring and how to go about it. I did a light ale recipe that hit the low end of the target SG coming out of the mash eg. The range was 1042-1046 and I hit 1043. The final gravity range out of the fermenter was between 1010-1006 and I hit 1006. Hop profile was really weak though. Any/all thoughts?
 
I had the efficiency set to 72% and when I adjusted it to match my OG it was 63%. I had 12.5lbs of grain, 10lbs 2-Row. BeerSmith had it at 1.055, I got 1.048. My first batch was similar. I have to check my notes on the second brew, think I was closer that time.

Well there's your answer right there: you need to design your future recipes for 63%. That way you'll be including enough grain to achieve your intended OG.

Now why you're getting 63%instead of 75% or 80% I can't really say. You'll need to take a look at some of those things mentioned earlier. The only real-world effect is in the amount of grain you'll need to use to achieve a certain gravity.
 
Well there's your answer right there: you need to design your future recipes for 63%. That way you'll be including enough grain to achieve your intended OG.

Now why you're getting 63%instead of 75% or 80% I can't really say. You'll need to take a look at some of those things mentioned earlier. The only real-world effect is in the amount of grain you'll need to use to achieve a certain gravity.

Traveling Brewer you're getting solid advice there, twice!

As for the 2nd part, if you're measuring brew house eff, how much wort didn't make it into your fermenter? My first brew I left a fair amount behind and of course brew house was severely impacted. I wasn't concerned first time as I had plenty, but it was lower than expected!
 
I'm an experienced brewer but new to all grain and using the Grainfather. I hear a lot of talk about efficiency and was wondering as to what it is measuring and how to go about it. I did a light ale recipe that hit the low end of the target SG coming out of the mash eg. The range was 1042-1046 and I hit 1043. The final gravity range out of the fermenter was between 1010-1006 and I hit 1006. Hop profile was really weak though. Any/all thoughts?

It is nothing more than the percent of total theoretical maximum sugar extraction you are getting from a given grain bill (+ other non-grain fermentables like sugar, extract, etc. ). In other words, if hypothetically the theoretical maximum yield of 12lbs grain in 7.5 gals water gives a wort of 1.060 SG, and you end up with 1.047, the efficiency is 78.3%. I could take the time to look up actual numbers if I wanted to, but I'm too lazy cause I always let software calculate this stuff for me.

There is "mash efficiency" which is a measure of how "effective" your mash was. The more sugar you extracted with your mash, the greater your mash efficiency. Then there's total or "brewhouse efficiency" which is a measure of how efficient your entire system is, taking into account things like loss to deadspace, trub, chiller and hoses. The more wort left in all these dead areas that can't be recovered into your fermentor, the lower your brewhouse efficiency.

IMO, it's much ado about nothing at the homebrew level. The only practical application when dealing with 5-10 gallon batches is enabling you to predict with some accuracy how much grain you need to achieve a given gravity. If your recipe is designed to give you 1.050 and you only get 1.045, you know you need to add more grain next time. That's really what it all comes down to, and you don't even really have to know the exact efficiency number to know this. However, knowing your typical efficiency will tell you almost exactly HOW MUCH to add.

At the macro brewery level where you're dealing with thousands of pounds of grain and dollars, controlling and measuring efficiency is much more important. For us, it's just kind of interesting to know so your beer comes out closer to planned. I will say that the numbers people are reporting for the Grainfather are amazing compared to my half barrel propane system, where I was getting 65-70% brewhouse because of all the pumps, hoses, deadspace, etc. The GF is a really well-designed system!
 
Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered mine off ebay as well through the user name of igobru32. I was able to use the MAKE A OFFER feature and offered $750 with free shipping. They excepted. I'm stoked. The user I bought from has a website. Www.igobru.com and are listed as a distributor on grainfather.com. if anyone else is looking to try to save a few bucks give them a offer who knows you might do better than me.

Fantastic! That's who I ordered through as well. I wish I'd been bolder with my offer! Nice one Taylor!

It came in UPS for me, wrapped in Brewcraft box. Condition was great albeit with a small dent from the grain basket. NBD just cosmetic.
 
Thanks for the info, gspot. I figured it was something like what you said. I do know how to run the numbers without software lol. And I was thinking - and agreeing - that it's nice to know but really much ado about nothing. Have a great day!
 
Wow, about 4.75 gallons in the carboy at 1.058! eff @ ~ 78%

10# of vienna malt.

The best eff i've had. I had to push the top plate down close to 2 inches to reach the grain bed before the sparge.
 
Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered mine off ebay as well through the user name of igobru32. I was able to use the MAKE A OFFER feature and offered $750 with free shipping. They excepted. I'm stoked. The user I bought from has a website. Www.igobru.com and are listed as a distributor on grainfather.com. if anyone else is looking to try to save a few bucks give them a offer who knows you might do better than me.

Wow, thanks! I was an extract brewer that had to stop a couple years ago and I'm looking into getting back into it but with all grain this time. After some research I decided one of these compact style systems would fit me best. I've been doing research on all of them. I like the price on this one the best obviously since it's about 1/3 of the price of the competition. Started reading this thread and plan on reading through it all. Currently on page 25 and decided at this point I'm going to order. Accidentally clicked the last page and saw your post. Would love to get it for 750 as I was expecting for it to be around 900 that it's listed at the online brew sites!

Going to submit the offer now and then get back to page 25...


Edit: Well it took me a while but I read through this whole thread. Thanks for everybody who has contributed and made this an easy decision for me. My offer for $750 was accepted and my GF should be here by the middle of next week. Really excited to get back into brewing again after taking a couple years off and finally getting into all grain. Now onto shopping for the rest of my stuff.
 
So, I had a buddy ask me tonight at the brew club meeting whether the Grainfather could do 10 gals. My knee-jerk response was no--it only holds about 19 lbs of grain and has a boil capacity of about 7.5-8 gals. Later, after a few pints, I got to thinking about this and wanted to run it by y'all to check my reasoning. According to Beersmith, 19 lbs of grain would give me a post-boil OG of 1.110 in 5 gals. What's to stop someone from transferring that to a fermenter and adding 5 more gallons of water to dilute it to 1.055, similar to the way you'd do a partial boil for an extract batch when you were just starting out brewing? Or even adding additional extract to the boil for a bigger beer. Am I missing something here?
 
So, I had a buddy ask me tonight at the brew club meeting whether the Grainfather could do 10 gals. My knee-jerk response was no--it only holds about 19 lbs of grain and has a boil capacity of about 7.5-8 gals. Later, after a few pints, I got to thinking about this and wanted to run it by y'all to check my reasoning. According to Beersmith, 19 lbs of grain would give me a post-boil OG of 1.110 in 5 gals. What's to stop someone from transferring that to a fermenter and adding 5 more gallons of water to dilute it to 1.055, similar to the way you'd do a partial boil for an extract batch when you were just starting out brewing? Or even adding additional extract to the boil for a bigger beer. Am I missing something here?

The guy from the GF vids is also in this one.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRByABEdLhA[/ame]

He states that he basically done what your purposing. Probably a few minutes in.
 
Sorry if this was already covered. I've noticed using the Grainfather website volume calculator that as the grain bill increases the gap between the strike and sparge volumes increases. Does it in the app too. For example a 6 gallon batch with 11 pounds for the grain bill has less than a gallon difference between the strike and sparge volumes (4.48/3.89). Up the grain bill to 16 pounds and there is over 3 gallons difference (6.10/2.75). Can anyone explain this?
 
So, I had a buddy ask me tonight at the brew club meeting whether the Grainfather could do 10 gals. My knee-jerk response was no--it only holds about 19 lbs of grain and has a boil capacity of about 7.5-8 gals. Later, after a few pints, I got to thinking about this and wanted to run it by y'all to check my reasoning. According to Beersmith, 19 lbs of grain would give me a post-boil OG of 1.110 in 5 gals. What's to stop someone from transferring that to a fermenter and adding 5 more gallons of water to dilute it to 1.055, similar to the way you'd do a partial boil for an extract batch when you were just starting out brewing? Or even adding additional extract to the boil for a bigger beer. Am I missing something here?

Yeah, along with seabrew8 I was thinking the same thing. I am also going to try this and see if it works...will have room in the brewing schedule 2 weeks from now--maybe a simple kolsch or pale ale. If y'all are game, please keep updates going :mug::mug::mug:
 
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Sorry if this was already covered. I've noticed using the Grainfather website volume calculator that as the grain bill increases the gap between the strike and sparge volumes increases. Does it in the app too. For example a 6 gallon batch with 11 pounds for the grain bill has less than a gallon difference between the strike and sparge volumes (4.48/3.89). Up the grain bill to 16 pounds and there is over 3 gallons difference (6.10/2.75). Can anyone explain this?
More water is needed to saturate and cover a larger grain bill but batch size is not changing, so the difference between what is needed for mash infusion and what is needed for sparge gets larger as less sparge water is used on heavier grain bills.
 
More water is needed to saturate and cover a larger grain bill but batch size is not changing, so the difference between what is needed for mash infusion and what is needed for sparge gets larger as less sparge water is used on heavier grain bills.

I see. I did wonder if more absorption for a larger grain bill had something to do with it. My first batch on the Grainfather will have a larger grain bill, and I guess I'll just have to trust the numbers on the calculator.
 
Great idea denmfu, but the link doesn't seem to be working for me at least. However, did you check any local stores? I would be interested in this little hack myself. :)
 
No I'm addicted to Amazon. I originally tried 1/2 od by 3/8 id and it was too big, I thought I could keep somebody else from making the same mistake.
 
Did my first brew on the Grainfather yesterday everything went well I hope, the ease of it made me feel like there where things I was missing or needed to be doing. I did come up a little short on my final gallons mostly because I turned the pump off a little early but all in all m hoping it was a success we will know for sure in a month. Btw clean up was a breeze I think start to finish including clean up took about 4 hours.
 
Did my first brew on the Grainfather yesterday everything went well I hope, the ease of it made me feel like there where things I was missing or needed to be doing. I did come up a little short on my final gallons mostly because I turned the pump off a little early but all in all m hoping it was a success we will know for sure in a month. Btw clean up was a breeze I think start to finish including clean up took about 4 hours.

Glad to hear you busted your cherry and the first brewday went well.Two more brews and you will have it dialed in perfect and your mantra will be "Best money I ever spent" :mug:

RMCB
 
Got my first 2 Grainfather brews on tap today (a Brett trois blonde and a Simcoe/Amarillo APA), and they are phenomenal. I love this thing.
 
Thanks guys. I was planning on keeping my efficiency set at the low percent I was getting while experimenting with some stuff to raise it. One theory I have is about the amount of work above the top screen while recirculating. My 2 pale ales the wort was maybe 1/2 inch to inch above the screen and I missed gravity by 8-10 low. My milk stout the wort was right up to the overflow and I missed by 3. I'm gonna adjust the value to make sure I have a good amount above the screen on the next brew. I'm thinking not enough wort is circulating through. Make since or have I had enough beer tonight?
 
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