Grainfather!!

Yakima 728
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Kampenken said:
A PID will learn your chamber's performance and narrow that range to a few tenths of a degree.
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Probably not. Most systems use a refrigeration compressor with a minimum cycle time measured in minutes rather than in milliseconds. It can't feather the cooling to zero in on a temperature. A second PID controlling heat could manage that phase well but cooling won't be precisely controlled unless a different cooling scheme is used. Even then you'd have to figure bout how to make the two PIDs interact without constant "hunting".
 
Is anyone using some sort of filter on top of the overflow pipe? The couple times I decided to let wort go down the overflow pipe, I ended up with a ton of grain in the kettle. I'd like to put a stainless filter on and see if that solves the issue. I have a couple ideas of what I could use, but just wanted to see if you guys have had success with anything.
 
jrcrilly said:
Probably not. Most systems use a refrigeration compressor with a minimum cycle time measured in minutes rather than in milliseconds. It can't feather the cooling to zero in on a temperature. A second PID controlling heat could manage that phase well but cooling won't be precisely controlled unless a different cooling scheme is used. Even then you'd have to figure bout how to make the two PIDs interact without constant "hunting".
Click to expand...

The best refrigeration control system so far is probably the one developed by fuzzywuzze. I don't care for his only because it's not really a PID controller. As an engineer I get annoyed with the whole "PID controls the best" thing.

As you stated, a PID controller can't control the compressor. The compressor is either off or on. There's no feedback loop that you can control the "effort" of the system because it will short cycle.

I also have an arduino that can control an entire brew system using PID controls while displaying the data through WiFi to my tablet. PID isn't pro, it's just the easiest to implement. It's only a few lines of code.
 
jdubdvdt said:
The best refrigeration control system so far is probably the one developed by fuzzywuzze. I don't care for his only because it's not really a PID controller. As an engineer I get annoyed with the whole "PID controls the best" thing.

As you stated, a PID controller can't control the compressor. The compressor is either off or on. There's no feedback loop that you can control the "effort" of the system because it will short cycle.

I also have an arduino that can control an entire brew system using PID controls while displaying the data through WiFi to my tablet. PID isn't pro, it's just the easiest to implement. It's only a few lines of code.
Click to expand...

I'm not an engineer, and I thought I understood Fuzzy's build that the PID(?) controlled brew Pi would turn the heat & cool on and off while learning the drift of your beer (measured in a thermowell) within your FC. I know very little of PIDs, but this application seemed to be sensible and reduce my current STC 1000+ drift which is controlled, to some degree, by the setting of the hysteresis I input. The PID would learn when to shut off heat and cooling (before it reaches the set point) to avoid overshoot. Am I missing something here? I do understand the PID can only send a message to turn the heat/cool source on and off, but I was under the impression it learns your setup to narrow the setpoint range. Am I missing some technical point only, or will it not settle in to what I was expecting to be in the .1-.5 F range?

Also, I'd be interested in learning more about your arduino setup. I have one sitting around since I re-flashed my STC....
 
The question is, what will you brew for your first? I just got mine last week, only tested out with water and so far quite impressed.
 
Kampenken said:
I'm not an engineer, and I thought I understood Fuzzy's build that the PID(?) controlled brew Pi would turn the heat & cool on and off while learning the drift of your beer (measured in a thermowell) within your FC. I know very little of PIDs, but this application seemed to be sensible and reduce my current STC 1000+ drift which is controlled, to some degree, by the setting of the hysteresis I input. The PID would learn when to shut off heat and cooling (before it reaches the set point) to avoid overshoot. Am I missing something here? I do understand the PID can only send a message to turn the heat/cool source on and off, but I was under the impression it learns your setup to narrow the setpoint range. Am I missing some technical point only, or will it not settle in to what I was expecting to be in the .1-.5 F range?

Also, I'd be interested in learning more about your arduino setup. I have one sitting around since I re-flashed my STC....
Click to expand...

PID is a control structure, not really a "learning" structure. You can develop PID controllers with autotuners, which it does seem to have in his code, but still it isn't a true PID system. I am sure he is just using the term PID because homebrewers cream themselves over the term PID. He is basically using a feedback system to calculate the time that the compressor needs to run based off the current readings.

Model predictive control would be better suited for what he is doing, but like I said his is the best available controller as of current. In my free time I am working on developing a model predictive controller that will be free of BrewPi's outdated software. I will likely release it within the next year or two for free, but I am really busy and the project is behind schedule.
 
Grainfather stand almost complete

image.jpg
 
Dang the silver bike is an old Red Line that was my oldest sons when he was younger he is now 19 so yes that one is vintage. And the other one is a kink that is newer it it is my youngest sons
 
A package of 50 4"X6" drawstring cotton bags I bought off Ebay for $10 with shipping included.That works out to 20 cents per bag and they can be used many times till the wear out.The LHBS want $5 for the exact same thing.I am glad I can be patient when it comes to things like this.

I have used these before but I ran out.Pour in an ounce or two of pellet hops and pull the drawstring tight and then wrap the strings tightly around in opposite directions and then tie a bow and drop it in to the boil.Very good hop usage and no junk to clog up the filter.

They work great for dry hopping as well.Same thing but add in a ping pong ball so the bag floats as it delivers it's hoppy goodness :mug: though the ping pong ball innovation was the brain child of the late great Paul Wickstead of New Zealand....RIP Paul.....I shall pour a glass to your memory tonight :tank:

RMCB
 
After 8 relatively trouble-free brewing sessions with my Grainfather, I became careless on the 9th one. Without realizing it, I turned the controller switch to boil instead of to the temperature-controlled setting for mashing and, while getting my sparge water ready, didn't notice until too late that the mash temperature had risen to 183 degrees F. Not knowing exactly what to do, I simply turned the heat off and it gradually cooled to about 170 after an hour's worth of mashing. I continued as I would normally with sparging, boiling, chilling, etc., and ended up with an SG going into the fermenter within just a couple of points of what I expected. My question is this: will the beer be drinkable? Or should I simply dump it? This was a small batch using the new micro pipework: 6 lbs. of grain for a 3-gallon batch.
 
Rijnland said:
After 8 relatively trouble-free brewing sessions with my Grainfather, I became careless on the 9th one. Without realizing it, I turned the controller switch to boil instead of to the temperature-controlled setting for mashing and, while getting my sparge water ready, didn't notice until too late that the mash temperature had risen to 183 degrees F. Not knowing exactly what to do, I simply turned the heat off and it gradually cooled to about 170 after an hour's worth of mashing. I continued as I would normally with sparging, boiling, chilling, etc., and ended up with an SG going into the fermenter within just a couple of points of what I expected. My question is this: will the beer be drinkable? Or should I simply dump it? This was a small batch using the new micro pipework: 6 lbs. of grain for a 3-gallon batch.
Click to expand...


Of course it will be drinkable. 170 is kind of high for mash temps and likely played havoc with your sugars conversion. But hey, single infusion at 167 isn't too far off so while the style might not be what it was profiled as, it most certainly will be drinkable. As they often acronym here...RDWDAHB...or something to that effect :)
 
Ok, call me crazy..And I will whole heartedly agree with you..An YES I will actually get my control panel and eBIAB setup built and running..BUT, well, went ahead and pulled the trigger to get a Grainfather! Bought it from eBay seller igobru32, not going to disclose price, but it was more then $100 less then the 'buy it now' price.;) Should be here the 27th! :)

And once I get back from the big rock fest in Jacksonville, will sit down and go thru this uber long thread to learn as much as I can about this machine! :D
 
Mine arrived today. It's assembled and ready to go. Should be able to get a brew in on Sunday.
 
Ordered my Grainfather yesterday along with the grain coat! Excited to try it out
 
So my only hesitation with the GF is replacing parts in the future. If I pieced together an ebiab I could replace just about any part easily. But it seems like if that elements fails you're out a couple hundred bucks.
 
tagz said:
So my only hesitation with the GF is replacing parts in the future. If I pieced together an ebiab I could replace just about any part easily. But it seems like if that elements fails you're out a couple hundred bucks.
Click to expand...

Only hesitation? What about saving ~$300 clams going with a pre fab eBIAB from another vendor? That was one of the deal killers for me.
 
real life getting in the way... second week-end in a row I was planning on a Sunday brew but work has other plan :( on the other hand tho, just received my hot rod from Bobby so I will be able to heat my sparge water without any flame!
 
Currently brewing in the process of my first brew with the GF. Brewing up a big IPA of 15 lbs grain bill. I think I needed to add some water as the mash was super thick and was getting dough balls. Guess I'll just reduce the sparge by a bIt. It's so close to the top of the tube though, yikes,
 
elgee said:
Currently brewing in the process of my first brew with the GF. Brewing up a big IPA of 15 lbs grain bill. I think I needed to add some water as the mash was super thick and was getting dough balls. Guess I'll just reduce the sparse by a. It. It's so close to the top of the tube though, yikes,
Click to expand...

Mine was 14.5 today and according to the GF calculator on their site I mashed with 5.62 gallons of water and sparged with 3.49 to get to 6 gallons at the end of a 90 minute boil.

On another note, I decided to strain the few grain husks I saw floating in the wort at the start of the boil. My was I surprised at just how much grain there was/is in there!

Maybe my crush is too fine, or the overflow (I keep mine the way GF's video shows) is taking on too much and holding it in the bottom.

I've had a German Hefe flavor to most of the beers i have brewed on the GF. Maybe it's from the grain in the boil and not attributed to the yeast after all?

What do you folks think?

This was after 5 strains. I was getting about the same amount each time so I'm certain there is still plenty left in there that I can't see.

IMG_3070.jpg
 
I thought I remembered seeing someone post a handy little platform with wheels on one of the numerous grainfather discussion posts I read prior to purchasing. After getting in a couple brew days, I have decided that handles/wheels would be a HUGE benefit. I tried to go back through this entire thread to find it but didn't see it.

Does anyone have an example of what they use as a little stand with wheels for the GF? The one I saw looked like it was an industrial plastic piece, maybe for a mop bucket or something to sit on.
 

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