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Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

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Brandon O
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Possible infection...I moved the graff to a secondary and was very careful about sanitation. I used the gelatin reccomendation to clear it. This morning I have some white dots on top. Is this a possible infection or maybe I just woke up the yeast. I will try to get some picts on here soon for better identification. But so far it looks like the begging of fermentation sotra...the white little dots that appear.
chances are you just woke up the yeast. i have had little quarter sized bubble colonies forming after racking. I would taste it to find out though.

If it is infected, you could always add some wyeast roselare blend to get some brettanomyces on it and let it sit for 8-12 months to let it properly sour.

I have a belgian blonde wich started to spontaneously ferment, so I added a roselare smack pack to it. In a year, after the pelicle has dropped, i'm sure it will be good.
 

Shooter

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I bottled my Graff yesterday. The sample tasted good, but a little more bitter than expected. I didn't have 1/2 an oz of 6% AA hops. So, I used a full ounce of 4% AA hops. It should mellow out fine in a few weeks. Otherwise no issue. I'll report back once it carbs up! :D
 

fidjit

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Just finished our first batch of Graff! We left out the flaked wheat this time cause I could not get down the HBS to get some 2-row. Followed the original directions otherwise. Used 1/2oz of New Zealand Hallertau at 7.1 alpha. We added the AJ and wort to a 6.5 gallon glass carboy, shook it, then took a hydrometer reading. Got 1.054 OG. Fermentation will be closer to 72-74 deg due to my lack of a fermentation cooler. The sample tasted pretty good, like a malty AJ. Can't wait to give the finished product a taste! Thanks for the recipe.

Does this produce much trub after fermentation? :mug:
 
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I bottled my Graff yesterday. The sample tasted good, but a little more bitter than expected. I didn't have 1/2 an oz of 6% AA hops. So, I used a full ounce of 4% AA hops. It should mellow out fine in a few weeks. Otherwise no issue. I'll report back once it carbs up! :D

Ya, it's definately better to use less hops than more.

The only reason the hops are in there is for preservation purposes and to interact with the tart.

Less is better than more.

I had a batch where I used .5 oz of summit 18.5 AA and it just didn't taste right.

Less is better than more.
 

yeastluvr

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Ok...here goes....I'm opening my first bottle of Graff, "no joke, right now". Its been in the bottle about 3 1/2 weeks. Smells pretty good...and here goes the first taste...
And its good! Heres the difference I taste between this and my regular cider with apple juice and sugar.

For me Graff has a fuller taste....I get a lot more aftertaste with Graff.....not that this is a bad thing. I actually taste more apple in it especially this young compared to my regular cider.

OK I'm about 1/2 way through the glass and there is no doubt it has a fuller flavor. I'm getting a hint of bitterness.....I really notice the flavor hangs on in my mouth....not as clean and short as the simple cider. Brandon your correct that this cider is very drinkable after a short aging...it tastes very good for the short amount of time its been in the bottle. I'm very curious how this will taste in another month or two.

I like it....and its a good thing because I have another batch ready to bottle next week!
 
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Ok...here goes....I'm opening my first bottle of Graff, "no joke, right now". Its been in the bottle about 3 1/2 weeks. Smells pretty good...and here goes the first taste...
And its good! Heres the difference I taste between this and my regular cider with apple juice and sugar.

For me Graff has a fuller taste....I get a lot more aftertaste with Graff.....not that this is a bad thing. I actually taste more apple in it especially this young compared to my regular cider.

OK I'm about 1/2 way through the glass and there is no doubt it has a fuller flavor. I'm getting a hint of bitterness.....I really notice the flavor hangs on in my mouth....not as clean and short as the simple cider. Brandon your correct that this cider is very drinkable after a short aging...it tastes very good for the short amount of time its been in the bottle. I'm very curious how this will taste in another month or two.

I like it....and its a good thing because I have another batch ready to bottle next week!

SCORE!!!! Dude, so glad you like it man. I tell you what, I feel like all the experimenting I have done paid off. For me, it's everything I want a cider to be. A bit of body, big apple taste, not dry but not sweet, and VERY drinkable. I cannot drink regular cider all night with out getting heartburn, but I can drink Graff all night.

What do you think about the hops in the flavor profile? I was trying to balance or layer the tart of the cider. To me, tart can take away from drinkability if there is a lot of tart.
 

yeastluvr

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Well, there's no doubt about it....it's definitely less tart then regular cider I've made, especially this young. If I were to drink a 3-4 week old sugar and juice cider, it would be pretty tart, maybe a little acidic at this point. I dont get that tartness with the graff. Now I dont know if thats from the hops or malt "my palate is not that refined!!" I agree I would not add to much in the hop department, and as I said before I added hopped DME instead of hops and I dont know how much hops are actually in a lb of hopped DME. I mostly noticed the hanging flavor in my mouth. I agree this is easier to drink this young, no doubt about it. I'm giving it another 1-2 weeks "not that it needs it" and going to start really pile driving it. My next batch is ready to bottle in the next couple days. I might add......this stuff can be potent as it is too easy to drink!
 

MrBeetle

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Mine is still bubbling away, at about 2 weeks or so now...

How much should I prime it with - carb to about 2.5 like a normal ale, or should it be lighter than that?
 

aeroscarr13

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I just brewed up my first batch on Saturday. I followed the recipe almost to a T using extra light DME, a little less than 1/2 oz. of Cascade pellet hops and Safale-05 yeast. Oh, and no Torrified Wheat. The initial specific gravity reading came out at 1.067 and a sample tasted awesome. I have high hopes for this one.

It's busy churning away in a glass carboy in the basement. It's got a nice 2-inch thick krausen on it but it hasn't quite needed the blowoff tube. No nasty smells either, which is more than I can say for Apfelwein!

I'll let you know how it turns out.
 

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ahem....Testing 1, 2, 3. Attention everyone, YOU MUST MAKE THIS! It's so freaking awesome. I kegged it last night not carbed and not even cold and it was SOOOO good. :mug: Brandon my hat's off to you sir.
 

phished880

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Just finished a 1 gallon batch with some sorachi ace hops. I'm really looking forward to tasting it. I might have to step up production if the wife likes it. SG 1.068

what is the lowest what kind of Fg should i expect with US-05?
 

mcrandello

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Alright I just tried this, I'm pretty new to homebrew and had only ever done a couple tinned beer kits, some country wines with my roomate, about 15 gal of EdWort's apfelwein and a gallon of welch's red grape hooch for laughs.

So I went pretty much with the straight recipe, except .4 oz of hops (cascade is what the LHBS gave me) since I've never done anything with grains or hops before and I'm a little nervous. Used Nottingham hydrated in a little warm AJ and bucketed it up around 5 this morning. When I got up for work at noon it was already bubbling a bit in the airlock, so hopefully I didn't screw anything up with the grains. OG was 1.06at 74F.
 

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Ya, it's definately better to use less hops than more.

The only reason the hops are in there is for preservation purposes and to interact with the tart.

Less is better than more.

I had a batch where I used .5 oz of summit 18.5 AA and it just didn't taste right.

Less is better than more.
Here's my first report on drinking graff. I just popped one open after a day at the bulk warehouse store. Good stuff! My bitterness has reduced some and I'm definitely going to go with the 1/2 oz of 6 AA next time as I can see how this would be best with just a touch of that bitterness. Mine is still slightly too bitter, but much better than the sample out of the bottling bucket. With age it will likely improve, but it's pretty good right now. It seems a little more thirst quenching too me than a straight cider and I can pretty much see this recipe being a base for most of my ciders from now on as the straight apple juice thing just didn't do it for me. Thanks for the recipe Brandon! :mug:
 

dap325

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Quick Graff question. I've had a batch in the primary for 30 days now. I've had some free time issues, as well as a delay in getting my swing top bottles. I'm cleaning the bottles tonight and plan on sanitizing and bottling tomorrow. Is there anything to worry about keeping it in the primary for the extra 2 weeks? I followed the original recipe using .5oz of Fuggles (4%AA) and Carapils instead of torrified wheat. Thanks!
 

RayInUT

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Has anyone oaked this yet? I put a half ounce of lightly toasted oak when I pitched the yeast and I am too impatient to wait and find out if it's good oaked.
 

jaginger

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Crapadilly! I just cooked this up tonight and I got OG of 1.076!!

I may have been a little generous with the the DME (had a 3 lb bag that I thought was 2/3 full, and I used that amount for 6 gallons. I don't know how i messed the rest up, but this is going to be one potent graff.
 

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Looks like I'll need to give this a try :)

I don't have any DME so I'll need to do an all-grain version. Any grocery store substitute for the wheat?
 
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Quick Graff question. I've had a batch in the primary for 30 days now. I've had some free time issues, as well as a delay in getting my swing top bottles. I'm cleaning the bottles tonight and plan on sanitizing and bottling tomorrow. Is there anything to worry about keeping it in the primary for the extra 2 weeks? I followed the original recipe using .5oz of Fuggles (4%AA) and Carapils instead of torrified wheat. Thanks!
no issues at all, you will be fine.
 
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Just finished a 1 gallon batch with some sorachi ace hops. I'm really looking forward to tasting it. I might have to step up production if the wife likes it. SG 1.068

what is the lowest what kind of Fg should i expect with US-05?
I have seen lows of 1.004 and highs of 1.012. I keg, so I don't worry if I see a 1.012 after a week. A bit of residual is nice. If you bottle, just make sure you let the hydrometer tell you if it's done. 3 days in a row with the same reading should mean it's done.
 
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ahem....Testing 1, 2, 3. Attention everyone, YOU MUST MAKE THIS! It's so freaking awesome. I kegged it last night not carbed and not even cold and it was SOOOO good. :mug: Brandon my hat's off to you sir.
Hey, glad you like it as much as I do.

Next thing is to oak a batch, some have asked about it and I figure I should try it.
 

jeansberg

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I made a 10 liter batch of this yesterday! :mug:

I used 8 liters of 100% apple juice from the store.

The wort was boiled in 2 liters of water with:
120 g crystal 60
120 g carapils
530 g dark LME
8 g East Kent Goldings

I cooled the wort in a water bath, mixed it with the AJ in the bucket and sprinkled a packet of Nottingham on it. This morning I saw some islands of white stuff floating on top, but not a "full" krausen yet.

I'm pretty excited about this. :D
 

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Excited to try this. I'm thinking of racking this onto some strawberries or blueberries in secondary. Has anyone else done this/have advice on how much to use?
 

conpewter

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Got it in the fermenter. I ended up with .75 gallons of wort instead of a gallon, but it was 1.132 OG which isn't bad for my first stovetop mash. Apple Juice was 1.044 so my OG is roughly 1.066. Thanks for the recipe. Next time I'm buying DME, too much time mashing that small amount of grain.
 

cory41287

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I just brewed a batch of this stuff.

us-05
2lbs DME (1 light 1 amber)
1oz flaked wheat
1/2 lb. crystal 60L
eyeballed 1/2oz of mt hood hops
4 gallons tree top apple juice

i didn't take a hydrometer reading, figured i'd just let it do its thing.

smelled great going into the carboy. cant wait to give it a taste. one of my concerns is dose this stuff get to stinking like apfelwein dose? its in my bedroom so i really hope not. altho it is a very small price to pay.
 

Picobrew

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I'm finally bottling my batch tonight. It has been in the fermenter for over a month, so I hope there are no ill effects. Using 3/4c of corn sugar. Haven't bottled anything since I started kegging about 15 batches ago but these seems like the bottling kind of brew.
 

conpewter

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I just brewed a batch of this stuff.

us-05
2lbs DME (1 light 1 amber)
1oz flaked wheat
1/2 lb. crystal 60L
eyeballed 1oz of mt hood hops
4 gallons tree top apple juice

i didn't take a hydrometer reading, figured i'd just let it do its thing.

smelled great going into the carboy. cant wait to give it a taste. one of my concerns is dose this stuff get to stinking like apfelwein dose? its in my bedroom so i really hope not. altho it is a very small price to pay.
1 oz of hops? Might be too bitter for this recipe.

I don't think this has a smelly fermentation like apfelwein because of the natural nutrients in malt that keep the yeast happier.
 

babalu87

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Has anyone made this with a bigger mini-mash (to keep from using DME)

Silly me for only reading the first few pages............................
 

cory41287

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1 oz of hops? Might be too bitter for this recipe.

I don't think this has a smelly fermentation like apfelwein because of the natural nutrients in malt that keep the yeast happier.
my bad, ment 1/2oz. and the graff has taken off and no nasty rhino fart smell. so thats a plus.
 

MrBeetle

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Tasty stuff... A nice mix between beer and cider, probably due to the little bit of hops.

I used the 1oz of torrified, will probably up it to 2 oz next batch - I lose my head pretty quickly with just the 1oz.
 

RayInUT

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I just put my carboy in the fridge to crash cool. I'm adding gelatin later today after the graff cools down. I plan on force carbing for a BBQ Saturday night. I racked it off the oak chips last week. I took a gravity reading and we look good. Same as last week and pretty clear already. I poured a glass to sample and I'm pretty impressed. The toasted oak is very subtle but there. Maybe next time I would add 3/4 oz and re-evaluate. I'll decide in a few days when it is carbed. Overall, it is a very good beverage. The Saaz hops are barely there and it tastes like cinnamin has been added even though there were no spices and I used US-05, I think the cinnamin is from the toasted oak. I fermented at 67-68 degrees so I don't think the spicyness is from the yeast. I better start another batch as I think I'll have an empty keg late Saturday night. This is the perfect bev for a BBQ. It tastes great, finishes quick, requires minimal effort, and should appeal to most drinkers. Thanks Brandon!!!
 

Coastarine

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I have started drinking this, and it is pretty good. I had some fermentation temp control issues because my ferm chamber was occupied at the time. I think I'll try US-05 next time and hopefully keep the temp in check. I'm also going to up the crystal malt amounts to hopefully get a little more sweetness. Maybe I'll backsweeten with juice.

I'm also looking for a good source of pear juice to make a perry graff.
 
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Just finished a 1 gallon batch with some sorachi ace hops. I'm really looking forward to tasting it. I might have to step up production if the wife likes it. SG 1.068

what is the lowest what kind of Fg should i expect with US-05?
Do you have the recipe/technique for making the 1gal batch phish880? Or for that matter anyone else?
 

grahamfw

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I read this thread yesterday and I just HAD to run to my LHBS to get the ingredients. Most impromptu brew session I've ever had!

I did an all-grain adaptation. Here's what I used:

4 lbs Maris Otter
.5 lb 60L crystal
1 oz torrified wheat
.5 oz Sterling hops (6.0% AA)

I did too thick a mash and had to eventually add up to about 2 qt/lb of water. Sparged with 1.5 gallons and ended up with 1.25-1.5 gallon of 1.056 run-off. MLT is really too big for such a small mash. I boiled it in two pots and saved half of it as sterile wort for starters.

Used the nottingham yeast. Can't wait for this one.
 

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