OP
OP
It's not a sweet cider by any means. You ever had woodchuck cider or strongbow? I would say it's a bit dryer than those, but not nearly as dry as apfelwein.
Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)
- Thread starter Brandon O
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It's not a sweet cider by any means. You ever had woodchuck cider or strongbow? I would say it's a bit dryer than those, but not nearly as dry as apfelwein.
OP
OP
I tell you what, you can drink it right away but, 1-2 weeks in the keg and it's AMAZING!
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Brandon - do you have to chill the gallon of wort or could you just add it to the juice in the carboy? Or would the high temp of the wort cause some haze? Seems like taking a gallon of 155* and adding to 4 gallons of room temp (or colder) juice would get you to pitching temps without chilling the wort
This is what I did, and I got clear cider. Beersmith can help you run the numbers on if you want to chill 1 or 2 of the gallons of juice.
Shaun_ATX
Member
On my second pint of this stuff and man.....this stuff has an amazing flavor. Not as sweet as Woodchuck, semi-dry, nice cider flavor with a slight malty sweetness. Very smooth and (will probably regret this in the morning) easy to drink large quantities.
15 days in primary, (and I cooled the wort first) then kegged with 4.5 oz priming sugar and let sit for 3 weeks at room temp. FG was 1.004 for a ABV of 7.3% It does have a slight haze that reminds me of a slightly darker Paulaner Hefe.
Definitely a killer recipe, will be a staple in my keezer. From brew day to pint in 5 weeks, with a flavor that is unmatched by any cider! Doesn't get much better than that. Thanks Brandon O
MrBeetle
Member
Was planning on using safale-04 or the nottingham...
Think I would be OK with a 6 gal carboy, or do I need to worry about a blow off?
Think I would be OK with a 6 gal carboy, or do I need to worry about a blow off?
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
OP
OP
I use ferm cap so I don't blow off, but I would think you'd be okay.
OP
OP
Man, I gotta start chilling the wort if that gets it clear. I usually just add the juice and throw the wort on top of it. The 4 gallons of apple juice cools it down, but I wouldn't mind having a clear Graff.
May have to update the OG recipe.
OP
OP
update the original recipe. Cooling the wort to about 70 degrees before adding the AJ makes a lot of difference in clarity.
I was just adding AJ to the hot wort in order to cool it.
I was just adding AJ to the hot wort in order to cool it.
It's good to hear that. For some reason, I decided to cool my wort prior to mixing with the juice. It sounds like that might have been a good decision. So, hopefully it will turn out great. I'm bottling on Saturday!!!!
fidjit
Active Member
Got all the stuff for Graff today! My LHBS did not have torrified wheat but said flaked wheat would give the same results. Is there anything that should be done differently if I use the flaked wheat. I know I could leave it out, but I would like to see a nice beer like head.
Can't wait for Sunday to do this!
My LHBS did not have torrified wheat but said flaked wheat would give the same results. Is there anything that should be done differently if I use the flaked wheat. I know I could leave it out, but I would like to see a nice beer like head.Can't wait for Sunday to do this!
Brewing up a Graff as we speak. Smells great!
OP
OP
got some fermenting right now. I have been chain brewing this recipe for a few months now.
bobjohnson77
Well-Known Member
sorry noob question here. I made this before you updated it with the chill the wort first.. I don't care if it's cloudy but could I put in some whirl flock now? it's been in about two weeks or so and has stopped bubbling finally
I don't think whirlfloc is going to help after the fact, but you can try gelatin.
Add a half teaspoon of gelatin to a cup of cool water, let it sit for 20 mins, then heat it to about 170 just to kill off anything (don't boil!) and add it to the fermenter or keg.
Add a half teaspoon of gelatin to a cup of cool water, let it sit for 20 mins, then heat it to about 170 just to kill off anything (don't boil!) and add it to the fermenter or keg.
OP
OP
sorry noob question here. I made this before you updated it with the chill the wort first.. I don't care if it's cloudy but could I put in some whirl flock now? it's been in about two weeks or so and has stopped bubbling finally
Whirflock is an irish moss product and need to be boiled in order to work. just use gelatin as coastarine suggested.
Brewed up my estimation of an all grain version of this today.
3 pounds 2 row, .75 lb of crystal 60l, no hops, no torrified wheat, S-05 yeast
Mashed in with 2 gallons of water at 170*f which came down to 160 for an hour. Boiled down to a gallon in another hour. First time using the brew in a bag technique and for this kind of brew - it works well. Came in right around 1.1 from the grain portion.
Added 4 gallons of applejuice - expect to see visible fermentation by morning.
Pictures follow...
Brew in a bag, aussie style.
Mash out/ sparge pretty much non existant. I just pulled the bag (or rather square of fabric) and let her drain. Probably could have used my igloo MT but this was an excuse to try something new.
Pretty run of the mill boil, right? No chance of a boil over with 2 gallons in a 7 gallon pot...
Wrongo. Good thing I was watching.
The final grain based product, siphoned from boil pot and shook like heck before adding to carboy.
Bonus is that the containers are PET so they've been sterilized with star san and await a couple batches of something...
3 pounds 2 row, .75 lb of crystal 60l, no hops, no torrified wheat, S-05 yeast
Mashed in with 2 gallons of water at 170*f which came down to 160 for an hour. Boiled down to a gallon in another hour. First time using the brew in a bag technique and for this kind of brew - it works well. Came in right around 1.1 from the grain portion.
Added 4 gallons of applejuice - expect to see visible fermentation by morning.
Pictures follow...
Brew in a bag, aussie style.
Mash out/ sparge pretty much non existant. I just pulled the bag (or rather square of fabric) and let her drain. Probably could have used my igloo MT but this was an excuse to try something new.
Pretty run of the mill boil, right? No chance of a boil over with 2 gallons in a 7 gallon pot...
Wrongo. Good thing I was watching.
The final grain based product, siphoned from boil pot and shook like heck before adding to carboy.
Bonus is that the containers are PET so they've been sterilized with star san and await a couple batches of something...
OP
OP
wow man, great pics! thanks for posting them, i'm gonna start mashing two row myself, I hate paying so much for DME.
OP
OP
Got all the stuff for Graff today!
Can't wait for Sunday to do this!
you would have to steep the flaked wheat, nothing different really. It should have a nice beer like head.
bobjohnson77
Well-Known Member
Possible infection...I moved the graff to a secondary and was very careful about sanitation. I used the gelatin reccomendation to clear it. This morning I have some white dots on top. Is this a possible infection or maybe I just woke up the yeast. I will try to get some picts on here soon for better identification. But so far it looks like the begging of fermentation sotra...the white little dots that appear.
OP
OP
chances are you just woke up the yeast. i have had little quarter sized bubble colonies forming after racking. I would taste it to find out though.
If it is infected, you could always add some wyeast roselare blend to get some brettanomyces on it and let it sit for 8-12 months to let it properly sour.
I have a belgian blonde wich started to spontaneously ferment, so I added a roselare smack pack to it. In a year, after the pelicle has dropped, i'm sure it will be good.
I bottled my Graff yesterday. The sample tasted good, but a little more bitter than expected. I didn't have 1/2 an oz of 6% AA hops. So, I used a full ounce of 4% AA hops. It should mellow out fine in a few weeks. Otherwise no issue. I'll report back once it carbs up! 
fidjit
Active Member
Just finished our first batch of Graff! We left out the flaked wheat this time cause I could not get down the HBS to get some 2-row. Followed the original directions otherwise. Used 1/2oz of New Zealand Hallertau at 7.1 alpha. We added the AJ and wort to a 6.5 gallon glass carboy, shook it, then took a hydrometer reading. Got 1.054 OG. Fermentation will be closer to 72-74 deg due to my lack of a fermentation cooler. The sample tasted pretty good, like a malty AJ. Can't wait to give the finished product a taste! Thanks for the recipe.
Does this produce much trub after fermentation?
Does this produce much trub after fermentation?
OP
OP
I bottled my Graff yesterday. The sample tasted good, but a little more bitter than expected. I didn't have 1/2 an oz of 6% AA hops. So, I used a full ounce of 4% AA hops. It should mellow out fine in a few weeks. Otherwise no issue. I'll report back once it carbs up!
Ya, it's definately better to use less hops than more.
The only reason the hops are in there is for preservation purposes and to interact with the tart.
Less is better than more.
I had a batch where I used .5 oz of summit 18.5 AA and it just didn't taste right.
Less is better than more.
I see you've doubly emphasized this point!
(BTW, I meant to say doubly here, not Dolby!)It's not insanely hoppy, but might be a little too much. I think given a little time in the bottle, it should be fine.
yeastluvr
Well-Known Member
Ok...here goes....I'm opening my first bottle of Graff, "no joke, right now". Its been in the bottle about 3 1/2 weeks. Smells pretty good...and here goes the first taste...
And its good! Heres the difference I taste between this and my regular cider with apple juice and sugar.
For me Graff has a fuller taste....I get a lot more aftertaste with Graff.....not that this is a bad thing. I actually taste more apple in it especially this young compared to my regular cider.
OK I'm about 1/2 way through the glass and there is no doubt it has a fuller flavor. I'm getting a hint of bitterness.....I really notice the flavor hangs on in my mouth....not as clean and short as the simple cider. Brandon your correct that this cider is very drinkable after a short aging...it tastes very good for the short amount of time its been in the bottle. I'm very curious how this will taste in another month or two.
I like it....and its a good thing because I have another batch ready to bottle next week!
And its good! Heres the difference I taste between this and my regular cider with apple juice and sugar.
For me Graff has a fuller taste....I get a lot more aftertaste with Graff.....not that this is a bad thing. I actually taste more apple in it especially this young compared to my regular cider.
OK I'm about 1/2 way through the glass and there is no doubt it has a fuller flavor. I'm getting a hint of bitterness.....I really notice the flavor hangs on in my mouth....not as clean and short as the simple cider. Brandon your correct that this cider is very drinkable after a short aging...it tastes very good for the short amount of time its been in the bottle. I'm very curious how this will taste in another month or two.
I like it....and its a good thing because I have another batch ready to bottle next week!
OP
OP
SCORE!!!! Dude, so glad you like it man. I tell you what, I feel like all the experimenting I have done paid off. For me, it's everything I want a cider to be. A bit of body, big apple taste, not dry but not sweet, and VERY drinkable. I cannot drink regular cider all night with out getting heartburn, but I can drink Graff all night.
What do you think about the hops in the flavor profile? I was trying to balance or layer the tart of the cider. To me, tart can take away from drinkability if there is a lot of tart.
yeastluvr
Well-Known Member
Well, there's no doubt about it....it's definitely less tart then regular cider I've made, especially this young. If I were to drink a 3-4 week old sugar and juice cider, it would be pretty tart, maybe a little acidic at this point. I dont get that tartness with the graff. Now I dont know if thats from the hops or malt "my palate is not that refined!!" I agree I would not add to much in the hop department, and as I said before I added hopped DME instead of hops and I dont know how much hops are actually in a lb of hopped DME. I mostly noticed the hanging flavor in my mouth. I agree this is easier to drink this young, no doubt about it. I'm giving it another 1-2 weeks "not that it needs it" and going to start really pile driving it. My next batch is ready to bottle in the next couple days. I might add......this stuff can be potent as it is too easy to drink!
MrBeetle
Member
Mine is still bubbling away, at about 2 weeks or so now...
How much should I prime it with - carb to about 2.5 like a normal ale, or should it be lighter than that?
How much should I prime it with - carb to about 2.5 like a normal ale, or should it be lighter than that?
aeroscarr13
New Member
I just brewed up my first batch on Saturday. I followed the recipe almost to a T using extra light DME, a little less than 1/2 oz. of Cascade pellet hops and Safale-05 yeast. Oh, and no Torrified Wheat. The initial specific gravity reading came out at 1.067 and a sample tasted awesome. I have high hopes for this one.
It's busy churning away in a glass carboy in the basement. It's got a nice 2-inch thick krausen on it but it hasn't quite needed the blowoff tube. No nasty smells either, which is more than I can say for Apfelwein!
I'll let you know how it turns out.
It's busy churning away in a glass carboy in the basement. It's got a nice 2-inch thick krausen on it but it hasn't quite needed the blowoff tube. No nasty smells either, which is more than I can say for Apfelwein!
I'll let you know how it turns out.
