Well, it's in the bottle....Color is ever so SLIGHTLY darker then Founders. It has a rediculous aroma and I did sample it, am excited about my first all grain brew! ...the smell of those hops is amazing. I hated to throw all that wonderful aroma down the disposal. I will report back in a couple of weeks.
founders red's rye ipa clone
- Thread starter mb2696
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mb2696
Well-Known Member
I was finally able to get it on the dry hop today. It finished at 1.015, putting it at 5.4% (real thing is 6.6% FG=1.013). I ending up going with a 2oz amarillo dry hop because 3 just seems like too much. I'll post comparison tasting notes once its kegged and carb'd...
BearInTheBackyard
Member
I've been following this thread pretty closely as I would love to make this beer at home. I'm only set-up and capable of an extract brew - is there any way i'm able to use rye malt with a limited set-up/knowledge? Beersmith doesnt convert it so I assume I can really use it without doing a mash?
slowbie
Well-Known Member
+1 to what Apendecto said. I've been using this method for my last three batches. It saves a little money, is more fun for me, and makes me feel a little more connected to my beer. My stove has trouble with boiling anything too much more than 3 gallons, and I only have a 5 gallon pot and nothing else bigger than a gallon, so with those limitations I have found that I don't typically want to go over 6 pounds of grain. Also, to avoid buying a new pot I put my grain bag in a strainer over my 5 gallon pot and heat up my sparge water in multiple smaller pots to pour over the grain. If you have limitations of your own other people can help you figure out if there is a way to do it.
OK.....couldn't wait to sample the red's. Cracked on last night and was really tired (see below). First reaction.....This is my first all grain brew and is best yet.....however, needs another ounce of amarillo in the secondary. It certainly has nice aroma, but I like more more more. The two ounces of plugs took alot of juice and I only ended up with 37 bottles. I used plug as I thought this would do a better job of adding the aroma I want. Does anyone know if this is true or do pellets do just as good but take up as much beer.
Tonight I will compare with the real thing and posts my reaction.
Off subject Worked hard over weekend putting up hop trellis and got my rhyzomes in the ground. I planted Cascade, Centenial, Williamette and Golding.
Tonight I will compare with the real thing and posts my reaction.
Off subject Worked hard over weekend putting up hop trellis and got my rhyzomes in the ground. I planted Cascade, Centenial, Williamette and Golding.
BearInTheBackyard
Member
I appreciate the insight. I normally only boil about 3-3.5 gallons of wort and then just add cold water to bring down the temp enough before pitching and to bring the volume up to 5 gallons. That being said, is it possible to do the partial mash in about 2-3 gallons and then pour the water for the sparge up to around 4 gallons and save a gallon thats cold to help bring down the temp faster? Or is it required or highly recommended that I end up with all 5 gallons in the boiling pot?
Also, when I do the partial mash, do I just use the rye malt and then steep the other grains after or put it all in during the partial mash? (using the recipe above).
Thanks for any and all help!
You'll need some 2-row or something with some extra enzymes. This is a really good, well written article on partial mashing.
Sounds like you need a secondary made out of hops.
In other news, I planted my rhizomes the other day. Three Cascades and two Chinook so far and two Cascade and two Northern Brewer on the way. Have any pictures of your trellis?
Keep us updated on this beer. Sounds like one I'll be tackling in the future.
slowbie
Well-Known Member
If I were you, for this recipe (and any other probably) I would mash all non-base grains plus as much base grain as it takes to get up to 6 pounds. I usually mash with a thickness in the arena of 1.25 qts/lb. So that gives you about 7.5 qts of water to mash in, and you'll lose 1-2 qts to the grain. So you'll want to sparge with about 2 gallons (assuming 1.5 qts lost). You then have the option of adding your DME/LME or doing late addition, whatever you prefer. Then boil, do the whole hops thing, and top off with water.
So, to clarify (you'll need beersmith or similar to get exact amounts of hops and dme/lme but it sounds like you have something...I just gradually increase amount of ME until I get to the correct OG and increase hops proportionally until I get the right IBUs) Here is the recipe:
1.85# 2-row
1.25# rye malt
1.00# carapils
.75# Simpsons Dark Crystal
.75# Simpsons Medium Crystal
.40# Aromatic malt
DME/LME to OG of 1.063
Hops same IBUs
same yeast
Use DeathBrewer's partial mash thread to get a better idea of strike temp, procedure basics, etc. If you have a second pot to do the teabag sparge with I would use that for your sparge otherwise my strainer method has worked fine for me. Also, he says he turns the heat off, and with my stove I've had better results maintaining temps if the burner is on low. I have an electric stove FWIW.
So, to address your questions directly: mash in 2ish gallons of water, sparge to 3.5, and boil that. If I'm not mistaken, setting aside unboiled wort leaves you open to infection(because you can't sanitize the grain), possible DMS, and perhaps other problems as well. Also, as one last side note that's really obvious unless you don't know, these grains will all need to be crushed. I've heard that you can do it with a rolling pin, but I wouldn't recommend it. My LHBS has a mill in it, and yours might too, otherwise some online stores sell crushed grains or if you know a nearby AG brewer or can find one on here, they may be able to help you out.
Hope this helps, let me know if I missed anything.
My first all grain beer held up quite well against the real thing:
Hops: Founders is more aromatic with more hop flovor but not much. THe clone has that citrus flavor that I like but not quite the "bite" of Founders. I would add another ounce to the secondary.
Color: Slightly lighter but still nice and red. I wonder if this is the result of my poor efficiency.
Overall Flavor was very close to Red's and was hard to tell the difference in the beers. The clone had better head retention and the lace was excellent.
The only comment my wife had was that the clone seemed smoother but was hard to tell the difference in the two. I thought the clone was a little sweeter.
I will definitely brew this beer again with the additional hops that is, after I brew an oatmeal stout for my wife.
Hops: Founders is more aromatic with more hop flovor but not much. THe clone has that citrus flavor that I like but not quite the "bite" of Founders. I would add another ounce to the secondary.
Color: Slightly lighter but still nice and red. I wonder if this is the result of my poor efficiency.
Overall Flavor was very close to Red's and was hard to tell the difference in the beers. The clone had better head retention and the lace was excellent.
The only comment my wife had was that the clone seemed smoother but was hard to tell the difference in the two. I thought the clone was a little sweeter.
I will definitely brew this beer again with the additional hops that is, after I brew an oatmeal stout for my wife.
MB2696....did your beer get in keg yet? From my calculation it has been nine days since brewed. If no can you throw a little in a couple of bottles and trade me? I would like to try some to compare and taste a beer from an experienced brewer or is this illegal??? I would like to keg, but I honestly don't know where or how I would store, or drink all the beer I want to make. This beer making deal really gets ahold of you.
mb2696
Well-Known Member
In the keg carbing, but not quite there yet. Pulled a sample anyway, and it's pretty good. It should be ready within a week (I'm a set-it-and-forget it carber), I'll post tasting and comparison notes as soon as it's ready...
mb2696
Well-Known Member
Yea, it's in the keg carbing now. I actually brewed it almost a month ago (3/27). My understanding is that as long as money isn't involved, there is nothing illegal about trading homebrew. I can bottle from the keg, so I'd be happy to trade you. Send me a PM in about a week to remind me...
mb2696
Well-Known Member
So, i finally got to do some side-by-side tasting, here's what I think:
Appearance:
The color is spot on as best as I can tell, though the real one has noticeably better head retention (more carapils?) and mine is still slightly hazy.
Taste & aroma:
I need to preface this part by saying that I actually haven't had red's rye in a while and either: 1) the real red's rye I got was on the older side and the hops had faded OR 2) I've had some major lupulin threshold shift and it isn't as hoppy as I remember. Either one is entirely possible or it could just be a little of both. I need to find a bottle I know is fresh to be sure. The bitterness is basically right on (which it should be given we know the IBU), but mine turned out much more hop forward in flavor and aroma. WAY more late/dry hop on mine. Part of this difference in balance is obviously due to the fact that my OG was 1.056 instead of 1.063. I can't really comment on malt flavor comparisons as the hops are too dominant in mine.
Getting closer to the real thing:
This recipe is actually good as is if you love hops (which I do very much), but if you want to get closer to the real thing, I would say cut both the dry-hops and the FO hops to ~0.75 or 1 oz each (assuming the red's i got wasn't ancient). For me, actually hitting the OG might help too
I'll definitely try this again at some point, though it may be awhile.
sorry for the awful quality of these pics (real one on the left)...
Appearance:
The color is spot on as best as I can tell, though the real one has noticeably better head retention (more carapils?) and mine is still slightly hazy.
Taste & aroma:
I need to preface this part by saying that I actually haven't had red's rye in a while and either: 1) the real red's rye I got was on the older side and the hops had faded OR 2) I've had some major lupulin threshold shift and it isn't as hoppy as I remember. Either one is entirely possible or it could just be a little of both. I need to find a bottle I know is fresh to be sure. The bitterness is basically right on (which it should be given we know the IBU), but mine turned out much more hop forward in flavor and aroma. WAY more late/dry hop on mine. Part of this difference in balance is obviously due to the fact that my OG was 1.056 instead of 1.063. I can't really comment on malt flavor comparisons as the hops are too dominant in mine.
Getting closer to the real thing:
This recipe is actually good as is if you love hops (which I do very much), but if you want to get closer to the real thing, I would say cut both the dry-hops and the FO hops to ~0.75 or 1 oz each (assuming the red's i got wasn't ancient). For me, actually hitting the OG might help too
I'll definitely try this again at some point, though it may be awhile.
sorry for the awful quality of these pics (real one on the left)...
stubbornman
Well-Known Member
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brrman
Well-Known Member
hells yeah - I was planning on Denny's Rye IPA as my next batch, but I will just go with this. I LOVE Founder's Red and my local watering hole no longer deals with its distributor... Will be brewing it this Thursday.
mb2696
Well-Known Member
Denny's Rye is EXCELLENT, one of my all time favs and one of only a few beers on my repeat list. If you make it, get Dennys yeast! It's quite a bit different than reds rye though, but definitely very good and worth making. If you keg, I'd recommend doing two dry hops, 1 oz normally, then remove those, rack into the serving keg, toss in another 1 oz and leave it in while its on tap.
Also, how did the brew go and what grain bill did you go with?
mb2696
Well-Known Member
so zrule and I did a swap and his is very good. he went with what I originally posted (but different than what I actually brewed):
zrules batch
I think the rye level is perfect and the hops are very close. I retract my earlier comment about reducing the late/dry hops. When I brew this again, I will go with something much closer to what zrule did.
i think this is a good start...should be able to nail this after a few batches w/ adjustments
zrules batch
I think the rye level is perfect and the hops are very close. I retract my earlier comment about reducing the late/dry hops. When I brew this again, I will go with something much closer to what zrule did.
i think this is a good start...should be able to nail this after a few batches w/ adjustments
Thanks MB for trading...I thought his was closer to the real thing. Mine was overly carbonated. I had my wife to a blind taste test and she thought MB's had was closer to Founders. Mine was also not as dry which what I like about Founders. My son thought it had a kind of his yeasty flavor but I didn't get that. (old taste buds ya know) I am going to definitely do this again and have found some ways to increase my efficiency. Mine calculated to only 66%. I also am thinking of another .5 to 1 oz dry hopped.
MB....help me what should I tweak.? What was your recipe? This brewing thing is fun...wish I could keg some. Does everyone drink all the beer they make?
MB....help me what should I tweak.? What was your recipe? This brewing thing is fun...wish I could keg some. Does everyone drink all the beer they make?
mb2696
Well-Known Member
For tweaks, maybe up the carapils to 1# or so. Also it was a little less malt forward than the real one (not in a sweet sense though), so maybe a little more aromatic and/or c40? Although, that may be in part due to the lower OG, making the balance more hop-forward. Also, maybe scale the recipe to match your efficiency in order to get closer to the actual OG. Although if you are making adjustments for better efficiency, it will be hard to predict what your new efficiency will be until you brew a batch with those changes. As far as hops, I thought your bitterness was good, maybe more/less late/dry-hops if you want more/less flavor/aroma. I didn't get to do a side-by-side with yours, so I'm not sure about the flavor and aroma.
This is the recipe I actually used: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/founders-reds-rye-ipa-clone-151489/index3.html#post1962053.
Also, if you like brewing more than you drink, you could always gift it to friends, or bring it to a party/bbq/etc...
oldschool
Well-Known Member
What would you change next time around?
mb2696
Well-Known Member
I'm probably going to keep my grain bill but up the rye to 2#. Also, I'm going to try US crystal instead of simpson's (which I used originally simply because it was on hand). I think I will try the hop bill zrule used. I'll be more conservative on my efficiency estimate so that I can hopefully come closer to the actual OG. My FG was a tad high (1015 vs 1013), so I may reduce the crystal/carapils a little and/or mash a little lower. Also I didn't have 1056 on hand so I used 1272 which I had. I think it's noticably fruiter, so will go with 1056.
I cracked my first bottle of my partial mashed Red's Rye Clone.
I switched a comparable amount of Columbus for the Perle bittering addition. It's much more hoppy than the real deal. If I was going to do it again, I'd decrease the first addition. But I'll definitely be brewing this again.
Thanks for the initial recipe.
I switched a comparable amount of Columbus for the Perle bittering addition. It's much more hoppy than the real deal. If I was going to do it again, I'd decrease the first addition. But I'll definitely be brewing this again.
Thanks for the initial recipe.
mb2696
Well-Known Member
cool thanks for the feedback. i'm hoping to brew another version myself pretty soon here...
