Pretzel Wheat Beer

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Wreck99

Wrecked Brewery
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I'm trying to brew something like that Shock Top Pretzel Wheat beer that was offered few years ago as a limited release. I've searched high and low for a clone recipe, and sadly haven't found one. I saw a couple pretzel beer recipes on HBT that looked interesting but haven't seen any feedback on how they turned out. So, I'm going to try my hand at this. I'm aiming to make a solid wheat beer that has a distinct taste of pretzels. I thought adding a decent amount of biscuit malt could help with that but I also plan to use real pretzels in the mash. I have no idea how this is going to turn out, but would love to hear any advice if anyone sees this in time. I'm hoping to brew this up within the next week or so.

OG - 1.057
SRM - 6.5

Grain Bill: 10 1/2 lbs for 5.5 gal batch

38% - 2-row
38% - Wheat
9.5% - Munich
9.5% - Biscuit / Victory
5% - Carapils

1 lb - Fresh Pretzels

Hops: 23 IBUs

1 oz - Mandarina Bavaria (6% AA) @ 60
1 oz - Mandarina Bavaria (6% AA) @ FO

Misc:

3/4 oz - Sea Salt @ 10 min

Yeast:

Imperial G02 Kaiser
 
Martin House, a local brewery, makes a similar beer. Peanut Butter Pretzel Stout. Their we page says:

"This 6.5% abv stout is as black as West Texas Intermediate and is brewed with over six pounds of crushed sourdough pretzels per barrel."

It has a good pretzel flavor to it, so maybe somewhere to start?
 
Martin House, a local brewery, makes a similar beer. Peanut Butter Pretzel Stout. Their we page says:

"This 6.5% abv stout is as black as West Texas Intermediate and is brewed with over six pounds of crushed sourdough pretzels per barrel."

It has a good pretzel flavor to it, so maybe somewhere to start?
Cool so maybe I'm close then on the calculations. I was going to add 1 pound of pretzels. Sounds close to your local brewery's recipe. Thanks!
 
Pretzels have the unique flavor of the maillard reactions created by dipping the pretzel in a hot alkaline (lye or baking soda) solution. Presumably the only way to get that flavor would be to actually put crushed up pretzels in either the mash or the dry hop stage. Most likely dry hopped with pretzels, if that makes sense.
 
Pretzels have the unique flavor of the maillard reactions created by dipping the pretzel in a hot alkaline (lye or baking soda) solution. Presumably the only way to get that flavor would be to actually put crushed up pretzels in either the mash or the dry hop stage. Most likely dry hopped with pretzels, if that makes sense.
I was thinking to put the pretzels in the mash. Dry hopped sounds interesting too. Maybe if the flavor doesn't come out in the final beer, I could dry hop with some more and see what happens. Thanks for the idea!
 
Interesting idea!
You're using unsalted pretzels?
I think that's safest.


Have you pre-testing that amount?
If not, I'd be more conservative. You can always add more to the finished beer, after doing some taste testing first.
I've used this much in a different recipe before and was pleased with the results. You're right though, can always add more should start off a little less.
 
Watch the salt addition. Some years back I started brewing Gose and settled on a rate of salt at 1gm per pint in the primary. It's one of those ingredients where just a little more becomes way too much.
 
We’ve seen posts from guys putting different things in the mash - pancakes, corn flakes, pop tarts, etc. i’ve never done anything like that and I’m not sure what that buys you.

Among the hundreds of flavors Apex Flavorings makes you will find pretzel flavor.

https://www.apexflavors.com/Beverage-Industry/alphabetical-ttb/All-TTB-Approved-Flavors-for-Beer-Cider-Hard-Seltzer-Wine-and-Spirits~2103/pretzel-extract-flavor-natural-alcohol-beverage-beer=cider-wine-spirits~8764

This might be the approach I would take if I were to do this. Add it at bottling. Most of their flavors say .1 - .3 %. 5 gallons x 128 oz = 640 x .3% = 1.92 oz. They sell a 2 oz size.
 
We’ve seen posts from guys putting different things in the mash - pancakes, corn flakes, pop tarts, etc. i’ve never done anything like that and I’m not sure what that buys you.

Among the hundreds of flavors Apex Flavorings makes you will find pretzel flavor.

https://www.apexflavors.com/Beverage-Industry/alphabetical-ttb/All-TTB-Approved-Flavors-for-Beer-Cider-Hard-Seltzer-Wine-and-Spirits~2103/pretzel-extract-flavor-natural-alcohol-beverage-beer=cider-wine-spirits~8764

This might be the approach I would take if I were to do this. Add it at bottling. Most of their flavors say .1 - .3 %. 5 gallons x 128 oz = 640 x .3% = 1.92 oz. They sell a 2 oz size.
Interesting. I've heard of all kinds of flavoring extracts to beer. I would've never though pretzel to be one of them!
 
Watch the salt addition. Some years back I started brewing Gose and settled on a rate of salt at 1gm per pint in the primary. It's one of those ingredients where just a little more becomes way too much.
I've made a Gose beer a few years back and put 3/4 oz in a 5 gallon batch at 10 mins left in the boil. It turned out fantastic. That's what I was basing my measurements on. But I will dial back the sea salt addition, can always add more later.
 
Interesting. I've heard of all kinds of flavoring extracts to beer. I would've never though pretzel to be one of them!
It looks like something new they just added. They are always adding new flavors. I always check there first when I’m looking for any kind of flavor. No affiliation, I’m just a satisfied customer.

My beer this year for our club case exchange was an imperial stout with their candy cane and peppermint bark flavors. I liked it, it was well received. Like a girl scout thin mint cookie flavor.

I have spent hours looking through their flavors thinking about what I could make.
 
I use about 4 g per gallon of finished beer in Gose. That gets me saltiness above the taste threshold, but not intrusive. That seems to be about the level you're suggesting, and it seems to be a good place to start. I'm guessing that if you make this recipe more than once, you'll eventually up the saltiness to be a little more assertive.

In the spirit of relying on weird (or even not-so-weird) adjuncts as little as you can, I'd try to get some of your toasty flavor from the malt. I'd think about replacing the 2-row with English pale ale malt (e.g., Maris Otter). And upping the amount of Munich.

As far as mash ingredients go, pretzels seem pretty benign. Check the ingredient list though for additives you don't want: added flavors, preservatives, dough conditioners, etc.

If you're feeling cautious about the pretzels, you could make a pretzel tea -- that is, soak them in mash-temperature water without any malt, strain, chill, and taste. That could help you get the level right.

I wouldn't use late hop additions -- who eats pretzels with hops? And I've never been a fan of Mandarina, and even if I thought it tasted like orange, why have orange pretzels? If I had to add late hops, I'd use Saaz.
 
I like experimenting with new flavors and ideas. Breakfast cereals are my favorite. I've had very good pretzel beers before, but we must keep in mind - there is a line that should not be crossed, gentlemen...

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Yes, I've had it. No, it's not good.
 
I use about 4 g per gallon of finished beer in Gose. That gets me saltiness above the taste threshold, but not intrusive. That seems to be about the level you're suggesting, and it seems to be a good place to start. I'm guessing that if you make this recipe more than once, you'll eventually up the saltiness to be a little more assertive.

In the spirit of relying on weird (or even not-so-weird) adjuncts as little as you can, I'd try to get some of your toasty flavor from the malt. I'd think about replacing the 2-row with English pale ale malt (e.g., Maris Otter). And upping the amount of Munich.

As far as mash ingredients go, pretzels seem pretty benign. Check the ingredient list though for additives you don't want: added flavors, preservatives, dough conditioners, etc.

If you're feeling cautious about the pretzels, you could make a pretzel tea -- that is, soak them in mash-temperature water without any malt, strain, chill, and taste. That could help you get the level right.

I wouldn't use late hop additions -- who eats pretzels with hops? And I've never been a fan of Mandarina, and even if I thought it tasted like orange, why have orange pretzels? If I had to add late hops, I'd use Saaz.
Great suggestions. Unfortunately I only have like 1lb left of MO on hand. I could swap 1# for 1# of the 2-row for Munich and add in the MO I have. Not sure how much that will make an impact with the little bit of MO. I was also trying to be conservative the first go around with the maltiness. I'd up the biscuit/victory malt to help with the pretzel flavor but I'm already close to the upper limit of their suggested usage level of 10-15%.
 
The brew day went great, and got close to my numbers. I did tweak the recipe based on some feedback so now it's up to the yeast and we'll see what happens! I was able to distinctly smell sweet pretzels in the fermenter so I'm hopeful it's at least in the ballpark of what I'm going for. I'll update as I go. Here's the recipe I landed on today. The hops choices before and now are because I have a ton of hops in my freezer, so I refuse to buy more hops until I can get through some of these haha.

OG - 1.050 (was supposed to be 1.054)
SRM - 6.2
IBU - 21
RBR - 0.37 (tried to keep the bitterness low)
FG is expected to be 1.013 per Brewfather but I suspect it'll get to 1.010 at least. I've used this yeast before.

Grain Bill: 10 1/2 lbs for 5.5 gal batch

37.4% - White Wheat (Briess)
28.1% - Brewers Malt (Briess)
18.7% - Munich I (Weyermann)
9.4% - Biscuit (Carolina Malt)
4.7% - Carapils (Weyermann)

1+ lb - Fresh Pretzels (Philly Pretzel Factory). It was 4 pretzels broken up into the mash, at 4.5oz each.

Hops:

1.5 oz - Saaz (2.4% AA) @ 60
0.25 oz - Magnum (12% AA) @ 60

Misc:

1/2 oz - Sea Salt @ 10 min

Yeast:

Imperial G02 Kaiser (Ferment chamber set to 63F)

Mashed @ 150F for 60 minutes

Brewing Salts:
3.2g - Gypsum
3.2g - Calcium Chloride
Very little pickling lime during mash to raise Ph as it was 5.15 at 15 minutes in. Just enough to get over 5.2.

Water Profile in mash after salts with my water:
Ca - 50, Mg - 1, Na - 13, Cl - 51, SO4 - 60




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Just updating everyone. The batch has hit terminal the other day. I rose the temp at the end to room temp for confirmation as well as some diacetyl rest. I am now cold crashing since Weds night and should be moving to a keg this weekend. I snuck a taste yesterday and while it was warm and flat, I could pick up some pretzel/bready flavor as well as a little salt. It's looking promising. I'll report back after I've kegged it and got some bubbles in it.

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Posting to say that this thread has inspired me. I just brewed:

73% English pale
24% crushed sourdough pretzels
2% medium crystal
1% pale chocolate

0.4 g/L Fuggle @ 10 minutes

Lallemand London

I was thinking along the odds of an English mild, though I came in quite a bit high at 1.050 OG.

For those keeping track, this comes in at about 15 pounds of pretzels per finished barrel.

It’s also about 5 g of salt per gallon, from the pretzels. I did not need to worry about sodium or chlorine additions to the brewing liquor.

I did in fact make myself pretzel tea the night before: I steeped a proportionate amount of pretzels in water for an hour at ~150 F, then strained, chilled, and tasted it. (Pro tip: always chill your “tea” to get a good assessment of its taste.) It was good, good enough that I drank a glass of it.

Wort tasted great today. Fingers crossed.
 
Here it is in all it's glory. I did a grain to glass video on my YT channel if anyone wanted to check it out.

The beer is good. I've never had the Twisted Pretzel from Shocktop for comparison. Tasting notes: I can definitely taste the pretzels though not as strong as I hoped. The salt amount is just right too. It tastes like you're drinking a beer with a half salted pretzel. It's a good beer. I think I'll try it again in the future and maybe either add more pretzels or more biscuit malt to try and get more breadiness or pretzel flavor. Overall, it's a good beer. I enjoy it.
 

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This thread inspired me to try making my own pretzels to brew with. Following the advice of the first online recipe I found for hard pretzels, I made "baked baking soda" (Na2CO3) for the caustic bath. This turned out way too strong and the pretzels ended up very bitter/soapy.
In a last ditch attempt to save them, I used a lemon juice/cream of tartar solution to neutralize my pretzels (yes, they fizzed!) and then washed and rebaked them at low heat. Now they taste much better, but I will probably use a healthy helping of acidulated malt when I mash them.
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They all have a brown tinge to them.... brown malt or home toasted Maris Otter?
Maybe toasted oats to keep a head on it?
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