founders red's rye ipa clone

[slowbie]

I appreciate the insight. I normally only boil about 3-3.5 gallons of wort and then just add cold water to bring down the temp enough before pitching and to bring the volume up to 5 gallons. That being said, is it possible to do the partial mash in about 2-3 gallons and then pour the water for the sparge up to around 4 gallons and save a gallon thats cold to help bring down the temp faster? Or is it required or highly recommended that I end up with all 5 gallons in the boiling pot?

Also, when I do the partial mash, do I just use the rye malt and then steep the other grains after or put it all in during the partial mash? (using the recipe above).

Thanks for any and all help!

If I were you, for this recipe (and any other probably) I would mash all non-base grains plus as much base grain as it takes to get up to 6 pounds. I usually mash with a thickness in the arena of 1.25 qts/lb. So that gives you about 7.5 qts of water to mash in, and you'll lose 1-2 qts to the grain. So you'll want to sparge with about 2 gallons (assuming 1.5 qts lost). You then have the option of adding your DME/LME or doing late addition, whatever you prefer. Then boil, do the whole hops thing, and top off with water.

So, to clarify (you'll need beersmith or similar to get exact amounts of hops and dme/lme but it sounds like you have something...I just gradually increase amount of ME until I get to the correct OG and increase hops proportionally until I get the right IBUs) Here is the recipe:

1.85# 2-row
1.25# rye malt
1.00# carapils
.75# Simpsons Dark Crystal
.75# Simpsons Medium Crystal
.40# Aromatic malt
DME/LME to OG of 1.063

Hops same IBUs
same yeast

Use DeathBrewer's partial mash thread to get a better idea of strike temp, procedure basics, etc. If you have a second pot to do the teabag sparge with I would use that for your sparge otherwise my strainer method has worked fine for me. Also, he says he turns the heat off, and with my stove I've had better results maintaining temps if the burner is on low. I have an electric stove FWIW.

So, to address your questions directly: mash in 2ish gallons of water, sparge to 3.5, and boil that. If I'm not mistaken, setting aside unboiled wort leaves you open to infection(because you can't sanitize the grain), possible DMS, and perhaps other problems as well. Also, as one last side note that's really obvious unless you don't know, these grains will all need to be crushed. I've heard that you can do it with a rolling pin, but I wouldn't recommend it. My LHBS has a mill in it, and yours might too, otherwise some online stores sell crushed grains or if you know a nearby AG brewer or can find one on here, they may be able to help you out.

Hope this helps, let me know if I missed anything.

 

[zrule]

My first all grain beer held up quite well against the real thing:

Hops: Founders is more aromatic with more hop flovor but not much. THe clone has that citrus flavor that I like but not quite the "bite" of Founders. I would add another ounce to the secondary.

Color: Slightly lighter but still nice and red. I wonder if this is the result of my poor efficiency.

Overall Flavor was very close to Red's and was hard to tell the difference in the beers. The clone had better head retention and the lace was excellent.
The only comment my wife had was that the clone seemed smoother but was hard to tell the difference in the two. I thought the clone was a little sweeter.

I will definitely brew this beer again with the additional hops that is, after I brew an oatmeal stout for my wife.

 

[zrule]

The hop trellis is in my gallery

 

[Apendecto]

I was finally able to get it on the dry hop today. It finished at 1.015, putting it at 5.4% (real thing is 6.6% FG=1.013). I ending up going with a 2oz amarillo dry hop because 3 just seems like too much. I'll post comparison tasting notes once its kegged and carb'd...

Any final thoughts? I'll be making this bad boy soon.

Thanks.

 

[zrule]

MB2696....did your beer get in keg yet? From my calculation it has been nine days since brewed. If no can you throw a little in a couple of bottles and trade me? I would like to try some to compare and taste a beer from an experienced brewer or is this illegal??? I would like to keg, but I honestly don't know where or how I would store, or drink all the beer I want to make. This beer making deal really gets ahold of you.

 

[mb2696]

Any final thoughts? I'll be making this bad boy soon.

Thanks.

In the keg carbing, but not quite there yet. Pulled a sample anyway, and it's pretty good. It should be ready within a week (I'm a set-it-and-forget it carber), I'll post tasting and comparison notes as soon as it's ready...

 

[mb2696]

MB2696....did your beer get in keg yet? From my calculation it has been nine days since brewed. If no can you throw a little in a couple of bottles and trade me? I would like to try some to compare and taste a beer from an experienced brewer or is this illegal??? I would like to keg, but I honestly don't know where or how I would store, or drink all the beer I want to make. This beer making deal really gets ahold of you.

Yea, it's in the keg carbing now. I actually brewed it almost a month ago (3/27). My understanding is that as long as money isn't involved, there is nothing illegal about trading homebrew. I can bottle from the keg, so I'd be happy to trade you. Send me a PM in about a week to remind me...

 

[mb2696]

So, i finally got to do some side-by-side tasting, here's what I think:

Appearance:
The color is spot on as best as I can tell, though the real one has noticeably better head retention (more carapils?) and mine is still slightly hazy.

Taste & aroma:
I need to preface this part by saying that I actually haven't had red's rye in a while and either: 1) the real red's rye I got was on the older side and the hops had faded OR 2) I've had some major lupulin threshold shift and it isn't as hoppy as I remember. Either one is entirely possible or it could just be a little of both. I need to find a bottle I know is fresh to be sure. The bitterness is basically right on (which it should be given we know the IBU), but mine turned out much more hop forward in flavor and aroma. WAY more late/dry hop on mine. Part of this difference in balance is obviously due to the fact that my OG was 1.056 instead of 1.063. I can't really comment on malt flavor comparisons as the hops are too dominant in mine.

Getting closer to the real thing:
This recipe is actually good as is if you love hops (which I do very much), but if you want to get closer to the real thing, I would say cut both the dry-hops and the FO hops to ~0.75 or 1 oz each (assuming the red's i got wasn't ancient). For me, actually hitting the OG might help too

I'll definitely try this again at some point, though it may be awhile.

sorry for the awful quality of these pics (real one on the left)...

 

[stubbornman]

subscribed

 

[brrman]

hells yeah - I was planning on Denny's Rye IPA as my next batch, but I will just go with this. I LOVE Founder's Red and my local watering hole no longer deals with its distributor... Will be brewing it this Thursday.

 

[Apendecto]

Very cool. Thanks for the updates.

 

[mb2696]

hells yeah - I was planning on Denny's Rye IPA as my next batch, but I will just go with this. I LOVE Founder's Red and my local watering hole no longer deals with its distributor... Will be brewing it this Thursday.

Denny's Rye is EXCELLENT, one of my all time favs and one of only a few beers on my repeat list. If you make it, get Dennys yeast! It's quite a bit different than reds rye though, but definitely very good and worth making. If you keg, I'd recommend doing two dry hops, 1 oz normally, then remove those, rack into the serving keg, toss in another 1 oz and leave it in while its on tap.

Also, how did the brew go and what grain bill did you go with?

 

[mb2696]

so zrule and I did a swap and his is very good. he went with what I originally posted (but different than what I actually brewed):

zrules batch

I think the rye level is perfect and the hops are very close. I retract my earlier comment about reducing the late/dry hops. When I brew this again, I will go with something much closer to what zrule did.

i think this is a good start...should be able to nail this after a few batches w/ adjustments

 

[zrule]

Thanks MB for trading...I thought his was closer to the real thing. Mine was overly carbonated. I had my wife to a blind taste test and she thought MB's had was closer to Founders. Mine was also not as dry which what I like about Founders. My son thought it had a kind of his yeasty flavor but I didn't get that. (old taste buds ya know) I am going to definitely do this again and have found some ways to increase my efficiency. Mine calculated to only 66%. I also am thinking of another .5 to 1 oz dry hopped.

MB....help me what should I tweak.? What was your recipe? This brewing thing is fun...wish I could keg some. Does everyone drink all the beer they make?

 

[Apendecto]

Does everyone drink all the beer they make?

Nah, we just look at it.

 

[mb2696]

MB....help me what should I tweak.? What was your recipe? This brewing thing is fun...wish I could keg some. Does everyone drink all the beer they make?

For tweaks, maybe up the carapils to 1# or so. Also it was a little less malt forward than the real one (not in a sweet sense though), so maybe a little more aromatic and/or c40? Although, that may be in part due to the lower OG, making the balance more hop-forward. Also, maybe scale the recipe to match your efficiency in order to get closer to the actual OG. Although if you are making adjustments for better efficiency, it will be hard to predict what your new efficiency will be until you brew a batch with those changes. As far as hops, I thought your bitterness was good, maybe more/less late/dry-hops if you want more/less flavor/aroma. I didn't get to do a side-by-side with yours, so I'm not sure about the flavor and aroma.


This is the recipe I actually used: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/founders-reds-rye-ipa-clone-151489/index3.html#post1962053.


Also, if you like brewing more than you drink, you could always gift it to friends, or bring it to a party/bbq/etc...

 

[oldschool]

What would you change next time around?

 

[mb2696]

I'm probably going to keep my grain bill but up the rye to 2#. Also, I'm going to try US crystal instead of simpson's (which I used originally simply because it was on hand). I think I will try the hop bill zrule used. I'll be more conservative on my efficiency estimate so that I can hopefully come closer to the actual OG. My FG was a tad high (1015 vs 1013), so I may reduce the crystal/carapils a little and/or mash a little lower. Also I didn't have 1056 on hand so I used 1272 which I had. I think it's noticably fruiter, so will go with 1056.

 

[Apendecto]

I cracked my first bottle of my partial mashed Red's Rye Clone.

I switched a comparable amount of Columbus for the Perle bittering addition. It's much more hoppy than the real deal. If I was going to do it again, I'd decrease the first addition. But I'll definitely be brewing this again.

Thanks for the initial recipe.

 

[mb2696]

cool thanks for the feedback. i'm hoping to brew another version myself pretty soon here...

 

[Apendecto]

cool thanks for the feedback. i'm hoping to brew another version myself pretty soon here...

Sounds good. Keep me updated.

 

[zrule]

Mine is gone but for anyone interested following this thread made an IPA as follows

10# 2row
.75# cara-pils
.75# Crystal 40

.50 oz burton water salts
1.00 oz 5.2

mashed at 153 for 1 hour
1 pkg Wyeast 1056 activator pkg.

1oz centennial 60 min
1oz amarillo gold 20 min
1oz amarillo gold 10 min
1oz amarillo gold 5 min
1oz amarillo gold flameout

2oz cascade in secondary
1oz amarillo gold in secondary

1.056 sg
1.011 fg

Had the first one....this is a simple very decent recipe. Has a nice dry finish which is what I like. dryer than the rye, not a lot of bitter but lots of aroma and flavor hops.

Going to make the rye again next.

 

[oldschool]

So can someone post the revised recipe?

 

[mb2696]

i don't think there is a revised recipe yet...i don't think anyone has made it more than once. i'll definitely post any changes and results when i do though...

 

[tamoore]

I brewed this today... Used the following recipe..

5.25 gal batch.

8lbs 2 row
2lbs Rye
1.5lbs CaraPils
.75lbs Crystal 80
.75lbs Crystal 40
.5lbs Aromatic
70% efficiency

Mash 154, 60min.

1oz Perle 60min
1oz Amarillo 30min
1oz Amarillo 20min.
1oz Amarillo 10min.
1oz Amarillo 5 min
1oz Amarillo flameout
3oz Amarillo dryhop (5 days)

I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks a bunch for the recipe.

 

[visitor]

Pretty much doing the above recipe with a slightly lower mash temp and a touch more bittering and a little less on the flavor and aroma.

This isn't a beer I can get in CT but I was lucky enough to get a couple six packs when I was out of state recently and really look forward to having something similar on tap!

The brewer rocked to break it down!

 

[zrule]

Some brewers are really good to give out there recipes, some won't. I found a small brewery in Arena WI, with a fantastice pale ale and a scottish ale and he flat turned me down when I asked for the recipes and I cannot get it in Illinois. I just brewed a batch of the rye and will bottle next week. I upped the rye a bit and added a third oz to the dry hop. Good luck...this is my and my wife's favorite beer and it doesn't last long.

 

[rico567]

I love this beer, and I think the brewer did a good job giving you the info. He could of been like some other A-holes and not even responded to your email. To call it a crappy response I Disagree 100%

I agree with this post. A lot of brewer's wouldn't give you the time of day (not that I can blame them, it's their livelihood), and I'm always glad when I get a steer in any direction at all. I was in the local watering hole on Two Brothers night, and told them I really enjoyed their Cane & Ebel seasonal. He said "Well, you can probably figure out a lot of it, but the secret to that beer is Thai palm sugar." That's gold, as far as I'm concerned.


It's no different than restaurants. Somebody wrote an indignant letter to the cooking column in the local paper that a local restaurant wouldn't give out the recipe for their famous spaghetti sauce. Hey- that restaurant had built a 50-year reputation and clientele, and some of that was due to that sauce. I'd have told them "tomatoes and other things."

 

[Apendecto]

I cracked my first bottle of my partial mashed Red's Rye Clone.

I switched a comparable amount of Columbus for the Perle bittering addition. It's much more hoppy than the real deal. If I was going to do it again, I'd decrease the first addition. But I'll definitely be brewing this again.

Thanks for the initial recipe.

Had another bottle today, 7 weeks later than the first bottle I cracked. While the bitterness has toned down a little, I still think it's a little bit more than the original. The maltiness and sweetness are perfect, though. I will be doing this again soon.

 

[Apendecto]

Had another bottle today, 7 weeks later than the first bottle I cracked. While the bitterness has toned down a little, I still think it's a little bit more than the original. The maltiness and sweetness are perfect, though. I will be doing this again soon.

Last update. Had another one yesterday and it was perfect. Great balance and tons of hop flavor an aroma.

To go back on what I said about decreasing the bittering addition, it all depends on how quickly you drink through your batches. I'm sure Founders pumps them out quickly and has less bittering IBU's. I'm slow to drink 5 gallons so in hindsight, I wouldn't change a thing.

This is the best beer I've ever made.

 

[zrule]

Hey Rico567. Have you been to Two Brothers Brewery and brewpub. They give a great tour and you can have a good meal there. We went a few weeks ago for the first time.

This is also one of the best beers I have made and my favorite! Will be making my third batch this weekend. Going to try and reduce the 2 row by .5pound and add .5 pound of Munich.

 

[visitor]

Mine turned out pretty darn close as well. Hop aroma and flavors where a bit different between mine and the bottle I had from founders. I suspect since Founders didn't taste as bright as it did when I had it before that mine was just fresher. The color and aroma and flavors where right on. The one difference that is easy to notice is that mine wasn't carb'ed as highly and it had a different mouth feel. I'm pushing the carb level up a bit in the keg to see if I can match the Founder's a bit closer.

Really digging this beer, I have a feeling I'll be brewing this one again soon.

 

[esarkipato]

Any feedback on this version?

I brewed this today... Used the following recipe..

5.25 gal batch.

8lbs 2 row
2lbs Rye
1.5lbs CaraPils
.75lbs Crystal 80
.75lbs Crystal 40
.5lbs Aromatic
70% efficiency

Mash 154, 60min.

1oz Perle 60min
1oz Amarillo 30min
1oz Amarillo 20min.
1oz Amarillo 10min.
1oz Amarillo 5 min
1oz Amarillo flameout
3oz Amarillo dryhop (5 days)

I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks a bunch for the recipe.

 

[tamoore]

Any feedback on this version?

From what I remember, it was a pretty tasty beer.

I didn't have the original beer to do an A/B comparison while this brew was in the kegerator, but it sure reminded of the Red's Rye's I've had, and I wasn't disappointed in the beer at all.

I'll probably make it again this winter at some point.

 

[esarkipato]

Nice. I am going to try a partial mash with the following specs, fermented with a cultured Bell's yeast. Any comments welcome!
I will probably shoot for a single infusion, 152 degF mash, with a single batch sparge. My efficiencies are pretty bad, like 65%, hence my desire to use a little DME near the end of the boil.

Batch size: 5.0 gallons

% LB OZ Malt

35% 4 0 American Two-row Pale
26% 3 0 Extra Light Dry Extract
17% 2 0 Rye Malt
9% 1 0 Belgian Caramel Pils
4% 0 8 Crystal 80L
4% 0 8 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
4% 0 8 Belgian Aromatic

hops

60 mins 0.75 Summit info leaf 18.0
30 mins 0.5 Summit info leaf 18.0
10 mins 1.0 Amarillo info leaf 7.0
5 mins 1.0 Amarillo info leaf 7.0
1 min 1.0 Amarillo info leaf 7.0
dry hop 2.0 Amarillo info leaf 7.0

 

[two_hearted]

Hey, this is #2 on my next to brew list! Thanks for your guys work on putting this together and gathering info! I'll post my results as I made a few tweaks to the recipe after reading all the comments.

 

[esarkipato]

I did brew this but closer to tamoore's recipe. I did 2 oz dry hop with 1oz in the bottling bucket for a few hours...the hop aroma and rye spice balance perfectly. I'm not a pro beer taster but I do want to do a side-by-side. My recipe and notes are here: http://hopville.com/recipe/463546/american-ipa-recipes/rye-pale-ale

 

[two_hearted]

Just dry hopped this. Hydro sample tasted great and very close to the original. OG was 1.062, finished at about 1.008. Could only get Amarillo in whole leaf.

 

[decktard]

I brewed this recipe 4-5 weeks ago and feel this is pretty close.

I intentionally mashed a little high... at 154. I think next time I would shoot for the 152-153 area. The mouthfeel is a little on the thick side... almost like Oskar Blues Gordon if you've had that.

I dry hopped the secondary with 2 ounces and the keg with 2 ounces.

I will definitely brew this again. I'd probably add a touch more rye... maybe a quarter pound and see how that is.

Well, I'll stop talking about it and I'll just make it. I've bumped this up to my next brew, which will hopefully be this weekend. I've made the suggested changes (and a couple other small ones). I'll probably going to go with the recipe below and will report back after brewday...

Calculated for 5.25g @ 75% efficiency.

I'm probably going to mash around 152-153*F…
looking to hit 1.013 FG to match the 6.6% ABV.

GRIST - OG = 1.063, Color = 13 SRM
====================================
8.30# 2-Row (67%)
1.25# Rye Malt (10%)
1.00# carapils (8%)
0.75# Simpsons Dark Crystal (6%)
0.75# Simpsons Medium Crystal (6%)
0.40# Aromatic Malt (3%)

HOPS - 70 IBU total
================================
1.0 oz Perle (8.0% AA) @ 60 min (24 IBU)
1.5 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ 30 min (32 IBU)
1.0 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ 15 min (14 IBU)
2.0 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ flameout
3.0 oz Amarillo (9.4% AA) @ dry-hop for 5-7 days

YEAST
================================
WY1056 American Ale, ferment @ ~63*F

 

[BA_from_GA]

For medium and dark crystal how bout 40L and 120L. This may be my next brew. Thanks for posting the recipe.