floating diptube issues: problems, causes, fixes, solutions, etc...

[cmac62]

Brew hardware sells SS tubing cut offs Stainless Tube Cut-off Grab Bag READ FULL DESCRIPTION you can add a couple of these along the length of the silicon tubing and try that. I haven't yet tried using the floater except with my fermentasaurus, but it might work.

 

[DuncB]

well with the silicone tubing that most of these kits come with, The silicone has no "memory" and is very "rubbery". Once unpackaged it will straighten back out and naturally seek a very smooth lay...silicone does not like to be twisted and bent and will always try to flex back to a straight and smooth path.

The lack of compliance in the silicone tube is actually memory, if it had no " memory "it would stay in any position that you put it in. The fact it wants to go straight is " memory " and why the float gets pushed to the side of the keg. Also if it didn't have " memory " the tube would collapse as it couldn't " remember" and would always kink closed as soon as it bent.

@EDF713 Thanks for confirming not good / safe for copper in fermenter, need to find a bit of bent stainless or maybe some lab glass, which would be easy to bend and also put a little loop for the ring on it. I'll see if I can get a bit.
Short but thick glass would be pretty strong so unlikely to be broken in a keg.

 

[odie]

my memory is not what it used to be...

 

[DuncB]

@odie
Forget about it!

 

[JAReeves]

I'm running the ones with the round SS float, about the size of a ping pong ball. Has a short 1" SS pickup tube to attach the tubing, silicone in my case. The pickup is attached the float with a small SS split ring. As you can see in the photo, the pickup tube is about 1-1/2" to 2" below the surface. This "should" be ideal. Not so.
View attachment 757223
I opened a couple kegs that suddenly stopped flowing beer. What I found was that the float was on it's "side". Yes it's a round float but there is a horizontal seam that somehow rotated vertical and thus pulled/lifted the pickup to the surface, allowing air into the tubing and floating everything to the surface. Why this happened I'm not sure but I have some theory...

I supposed if you are pouring too much beer too fast, like a growler fill, it's possible the headspace pressure will drop and CO2 break out of the beer and fill that headspace with foam. I guess the beer is flowing out faster than the regulator can replace CO2? The problem seems to occur mostly with Hefes and other higher carbed beers. But it recently happened with a lower carbed English style beer too. I theorize that this foam lifts the float, thus lifting the pickup above the beer and the whole thing sucks air and then the entire tubing floats to the top. You don't realize it's happening until the tap stops flowing beer and all you get is CO2 and some foam coming out. By this time the entire silicone hose inside the keg has filled with CO2 and is now floating, pushing the pickup even higher. As you can see in the picture, bubbles easily stick to SS float and pickup tube.

Sometimes I've been able to wait it out and I guess the foam dissipates and the pickup/tubing drop below the surface and fill with beer again. Sometimes I've had to pull the keg, flip it upside down so the float can "rise to the bottom" so to speak, extending the silicone tubing and expel the CO2 and fill with beer again. Sometimes nothing, not filling the keg, not laying it on it's side, rocking it, rolling it, not shaking the keg, nothing will get the tubing and pickup to drop below the surface to expel the gas and let beer back in.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but ditto. Glad it's not just me. Now to go back to the top and learn something.

EDIT: OK, I use several of these, and I have used the plastic wine filters mentioned above by @EDF713 also (not always successfully). When it comes to pouring a pint or two, no mods, I usually get good pours. If I am filling a growler for a friend/neighbor, then I have to shake the keg to avoid a nothing-but-foam experience. I am going to dig through my parts drawer and find some SS nuts as recommended by the OP in order to try to solve this issue for the kegs that have them. Thank you all for contributing to our collective knowledge!

 

[k-daddy]

I have a couple of the (stock) floating dip tubes from Moorbeer that I use in smaller, 2.5 gallon kegs. The only time I had an issue was when I attached the tubing in such a way where the natural bend of the silicone did not curve towards the kegs center. Now I always make sure the float ball sits naturally in the kegs center dimple before racking. Problem solved.

 

[odie]

Well, after some more testing with assorted weights and tubing...some surprises...the fender washer is heavier than the nut. I did not grab a regular washer to try yet. I placed some dip tubes in a bucket of water to observe how they hang...for the most part in the test pictures above, using a weight on both the float end and another weight sliding up/down the tubing is too much weight total.

In this picture you see 3 dip tubes. 3/8 nut on the float end, 1/2 nut sliding on the tubing/hose, 1/2 fender washer sliding on the tubing.

The 3/8 nut does keep the float up-right and keeps the pickup below the surface. However, note the tubing...it's not weighted and just kinda does it's thing as it's neutrally buoyant I can see the possibility of it "clinging" to the sides of the keg and possibly causing the pickup to get pushed above the surface.

The 1/2 nut freely sliding on the tubing keeps the tubing down in the proper dip/bend/loop. Blowing air into the tubing and the tubing still stays down low like it's supposed to.

The 1/2 fender washer performed the same as the 1/2 nut. However, the 1/2 fender washer heavier and was able to sink some of my SS floats.

Using a single weight, the 1/2 SS nut sliding freely performed best IMO.

 

[GoodTruble]

Thanks for the experiment and observations!

I also suspect the washer poses less scratching risk than the nut.

 

[odie]

Tubing....I bought floating dip tubes from 2 different sellers. Although practically identical...the floats are slightly different, one being a tad bit more bouyant.

A bigger difference I think is the silicone tubing...One is notably thicker and more stiffer. See the pictures...obviously the thinner/lighter tubing is preferred IMO.

I think the issue here is going to be others noted above, that the thicker silicone hose will always want to straighten out. Since it's inside a narrow keg and is bent 180', it's going to want to force itself up against the side of the keg. There will be friction resisting the float and tubing dropping down as the keg level drops...Thus the importance of an extra weight on the hose, especially with the thicker hose that some vendor/seller provide.

 

[odie]

As you can see in this picture...there are some variations of floats offered...these look the same but I note that the one without the "side ridge" is slightly less buoyant. It will sink with a 1/2 fender washer but the "side ridge" float will barely break the surface.

 

[marc1]

I have a couple of the (stock) floating dip tubes from Moorbeer that I use in smaller, 2.5 gallon kegs. The only time I had an issue was when I attached the tubing in such a way where the natural bend of the silicone did not curve towards the kegs center. Now I always make sure the float ball sits naturally in the kegs center dimple before racking. Problem solved.

The CBDS directions specify to have the tube curve in.

I have both the CBDS and Torpedo Buoys, so I'll get some comparison pictures sometime. The CBDS is much larger, and has a bracket on the bottom of the float to make sure the pickup stays under. Overall the CBDS is much sturdier and better designed, but at a much higher price point.

 

[Broothru]

This has been an interesting thread. I've got a variety of different floating dip tubes, no two of which are the same. After studying @odie's testing and others' suggestions, it seems like the best one I've found is from Ball and Keg, which is also the most expensive. The ball is a bit larger than the others and is expanded foam rather than stainless steel. It's also quite a bit more buoyant. The silicon tubing is also quite 'rubbery' and appears to resist the kinking problem that others found to be a recurring issue, without having a tube wall collapsing problem.

The most unique feature however is the design of the steel dip tube end inlet that bends about 45 degrees. When suspended below the floating ball, the dip tube bends down towards horizontal rather than hang vertically. This helps to keep the intake below the level of the beer as well as any foam that might be present after a long pour and pressure drop inside the keg.

I've been tied up with other projects and haven't yet been able to test these different combinations of weights. I finally chased down a variety if ⅜" and ½" stainless steel nuts and washers but could only find 7/16" in zinc plated. No bueno. Hopefully soon.

 

[belgabrewing]

I am going to try using the original long stainless tube and cut the silicone feed to a length where the float ball would almost touch the lid. Then a SS nut attached with friction to the metal feed linked to the ball will give it the stability it needs. This way there seems there is a lot less tubing to "float" around and kink up.

 

[odie]

I also suspect the washer poses less scratching risk than the nut.

I was thinking the washer might slide easier because it was thinner, less tubing in contact.

But playing with both, I really see no difference. I doubt there is any more risk one over the other.

It's going to slide very slowly anyway....unless it's a frat house kegger

 

[Broothru]

I am going to try using the original long stainless tube and cut the silicone feed to a length where the float ball would almost touch the lid. Then a SS nut attached with friction to the metal feed linked to the ball will give it the stability it needs. This way there seems there is a lot less tubing to "float" around and kink up.

Maybe just shorten the beer out dip tube by a couple of inches instead of near the top of the keg, then shorten the silicon line length so that it doesn't loop. You would probably need some type of "U"-bend where the silicon and dip tube ends meet to prevent kinking at that juncture, but the silicon would have less length to kink or get fouled. Maybe some reinforced food safe tubing would work.

 

[lablover]

This has been an interesting thread. I've got a variety of different floating dip tubes, no two of which are the same. After studying @odie's testing and others' suggestions, it seems like the best one I've found is from Ball and Keg, which is also the most expensive. The ball is a bit larger than the others and is expanded foam rather than stainless steel. It's also quite a bit more buoyant. The silicon tubing is also quite 'rubbery' and appears to resist the kinking problem that others found to be a recurring issue, without having a tube wall collapsing problem.

The most unique feature however is the design of the steel dip tube end inlet that bends about 45 degrees. When suspended below the floating ball, the dip tube bends down towards horizontal rather than hang vertically. This helps to keep the intake below the level of the beer as well as any foam that might be present after a long pour and pressure drop inside the keg.

I've been tied up with other projects and haven't yet been able to test these different combinations of weights. I finally chased down a variety if ⅜" and ½" stainless steel nuts and washers but could only find 7/16" in zinc plated. No bueno. Hopefully soon.

I can concur that of the less expensive (non-CBDS) units in the $20 range, the Ballandkeg units work the best for the reasons mentioned above. Ballandkeg Their SS tubing in the end of the hose is quite a bit heavier than the SS tubing piece at the end of the other Torpedo Keg units so it stays submerged without additional weight. Their Silicon tubing is thicker and I have never had one kink during use. I would like to point out that they sell their silicone tubing on their website so you can pick up a thicker piece of replacement tubing if you would like to replace a thinner piece that comes with the Torpedo style. Tubing. That may be useful for some of those that are experiencing kinking with the Torpedo style units sold by Morebeer and others.

 

[marc1]

The CBDS directions specify to have the tube curve in.

I have both the CBDS and Torpedo Buoys, so I'll get some comparison pictures sometime. The CBDS is much larger, and has a bracket on the bottom of the float to make sure the pickup stays under. Overall the CBDS is much sturdier and better designed, but at a much higher price point.

Here's the Torpedo Buoy on the left, the old version CBDS with the hop screen installed in the middle, and the new version CBDS without the hop screen on the right.

For the CBDS, the bracket and stainless L tube keep the intake under the beer line. I'm not sure why they changed to a ball float instead of a cylinder. The packaging said made in the USA, so maybe it was easier to source here. I haven't used the new version CBDS yet, it'll get installed in a new keg here shortly.

 

[odie]

OK...I had an issue last night while trying to do a transfer to a mini keg. I had a floating tube issue and getting air in the pickup again.

Going back to post #39 where I detail the two different sizes of silicone tubing...apparently the thicker silicone tubing can cause issues.

specifically, a key part of making these floating dip tubes trouble free is to ensure the length of tubing maintains a "dip", meaning it hangs down from the out post into the keg and then bends back up to the float. What this does is keeps the tubing fully submerged, any air pockets will bleed out so that the tube does not float and push the pickup end above the beer. Yes, a floating silicone hose will raise the pickup end out of the beer.

The key to maintaining that "dip" is a weight that will freely slide up the tubing as the keg is initially filled and then slide down the tubing as the keg is emptied. FREELY SLIDE. the 1/2 SS nut will freely slide but the clearance is not very big. So...

To the point...the thicker tubing has a thicker wall. thus a bigger "lip". The 1/2 SS nut that is used as the tube weight slides all the way to the end of the pickup when the keg is emptied. It can actually slide off the tubing and sit on the short SS pick up tube, only being retained by the ring at the end that holds the float.

So as the keg is filled, the float and pickup rises. Sometimes, that SS nut will catch on the lip of the thicker silicone tubing and just hang up and not free fall down the length of silicone hose. So the 1/2 SS nut does not slide down the tubing. The tubing"dip" is not maintained and any air in the hose is not bleed out. So the tubing floats and can push the pickup above the beer.

The thinner silicone tubing that came from another dip tube supplier has not had a thick enough lip to catch that nut...yet.

the 1/2 SS fender washer is a possible alternative to the 1/2 SS nut. It is less likely to catch. The gap between tubing the nut is minimal, the washer is slightly bigger gap.

Anyway, no amount of shaking the keg, inverting it, rocking it, etc could get that nut to drop of that lip and slide back down the tubing. When I finally opened the keg to see what was going on is when I found the nut has gotten hung up on the lip of the tubing. As soon as I moved the nut down the tubing all was good again.

So, either use a SS fender washer or make sure the tubing is thin walled.

 

[beersk]

I had these same issues with the Top Draw and Torpedo one. Good idea but it's rubbish. Get the Clear Beer Draft System. You'll never have this issue again. They are spendy, but really damn good.