FIB War Room

[danbanana]

Taylor Swift sells more albums than anyone sells NEIPA

Taylor Swift is significantly more ******* awesome than any NEIPA I've ever had.

Owning the beer conversation on CCBE, trade groups and other sites as well as shaping the industry to one of haze and unfermented chocolate. I mean when looking for money to open brewpub, majority of questions...will you make more stouts, will you make more IPA’s. It ****** sucks, I wish I could make dry hopped Brett and other weird **** but then I look at a dumb IPA that sold 15 barrels in one week. Industry weird, just tryin to stay slightly weird while selling out...like a major label debut from Ween.

RIP, Penrose.

... who still do good things and their citra pale they released a while back was honestly the best citra-based beer I've ever had. But the difference between what they are and what they advertised at start is a little disappointing. And from a business sense, they're obviously doing the "right" thing.

Also, the best story about a weird major label debut from the 90's is this: Rocket From The Crypt was only signed because John Reis insisted they get a contract along with his other band, Drive Like Jehu, who Interscope was in the process of signing. This makes zero ******* sense since RFTC did pretty standard punk/rock songs and were far more commercially viable than Jehu, who immediately put out a record full of 7 minute long angular noise-punk songs that no radio station was ever going to play. RFTC ended up with some minor hits. Whoever was doing the A&R there was nuts.

 

[middlebrow]

Taylor Swift is significantly more ******* awesome than any NEIPA I've ever had.



RIP, Penrose.

... who still do good things and their citra pale they released a while back was honestly the best citra-based beer I've ever had. But the difference between what they are and what they advertised at start is a little disappointing. And from a business sense, they're obviously doing the "right" thing.

Also, the best story about a weird major label debut from the 90's is this: Rocket From The Crypt was only signed because John Reis insisted they get a contract along with his other band, Drive Like Jehu, who Interscope was in the process of signing. This makes zero ******* sense since RFTC did pretty standard punk/rock songs and were far more commercially viable than Jehu, who immediately put out a record full of 7 minute long angular noise-punk songs that no radio station was ever going to play. RFTC ended up with some minor hits. Whoever was doing the A&R there was nuts.

those 90's major label signings are some of the best and weirdest stories. the money going to insane artists in the wake of nirvana is sorta similar to the current NEIPA phenomena. Like lets call HF/treehouse/trill the nirvana/pearl jam/soundgarden... we got a whole lot of STP/candlebox/bush/3 doors down making beer in the midbest. hoping penrose is like modest mouse or spoon, and not like illinois own Hum.

 

[kodt]

those 90's major label signings are some of the best and weirdest stories. the money going to insane artists in the wake of nirvana is sorta similar to the current NEIPA phenomena. Like lets call HF/treehouse/trill the nirvana/pearl jam/soundgarden... we got a whole lot of STP/candlebox/bush/3 doors down making beer in the midbest.

So we got a few years before Nickleback and Lifehouse breweries start popping up?

 

[mdomask]

So we got a few years before Nickleback and Lifehouse breweries start popping up?

You mean like More Brewing?

 

[kodt]

You mean like More Brewing?

 

[vav1]

those 90's major label signings are some of the best and weirdest stories. the money going to insane artists in the wake of nirvana is sorta similar to the current NEIPA phenomena. Like lets call HF/treehouse/trill the nirvana/pearl jam/soundgarden... we got a whole lot of STP/candlebox/bush/3 doors down making beer in the midbest. hoping penrose is like modest mouse or spoon, and not like illinois own Hum.

Somethingsomething missed the train to Marz

 

[middlebrow]

Somethingsomething missed the train to Marz

I can already see the label art for the mikerphone/marz collab.

 

[duckyboycantfly]

When yeast labs that were focused on specialty yeast are coming up with a "specialty" NEIPA blend, that shows what really pays the bills.

Also, went to a beer bar in the burbs, couldn't order their Jai Alai because I wasn't a member of some club (I could order it after 5), so I guess that's the future of beer bars.

 

[RedCoffee]

Also, went to a beer bar in the burbs, couldn't order their Jai Alai because I wasn't a member of some club (I could order it after 5), so I guess that's the future of beer bars.

"Tastes better if you've had to wait for it or join their club."

 

[duckyboycantfly]

They do have Middle Brow Sells Out Den listed as a Belgian IPA, so they have that going for them.

 

[trickytunadicky]

When yeast labs that were focused on specialty yeast are coming up with a "specialty" NEIPA blend, that shows what really pays the bills.

Also, went to a beer bar in the burbs, couldn't order their Jai Alai because I wasn't a member of some club (I could order it after 5), so I guess that's the future of beer bars.

Hard pass. I already do most of my drinking at home.

 

[DiscountMegaMall4ever]

Like lets call HF/treehouse/trill the nirvana/pearl jam/soundgarden... we got a whole lot of STP/candlebox/bush/3 doors down making beer in the midbest.

We also got Spin Doctors and Gin Blossoms to supplement the BoDeans at food fests.

 

[RedCoffee]

beeraficionado please make 1 million cases. I'll take a pallet. Thanks in advance

 

[trickytunadicky]

beeraficionado please make 1 million cases. I'll take a pallet. Thanks in advance

If I take the Deths Tar I have now and blend it with black agnes.... brb gonna black out for the weekend.

 

[vav1]

When yeast labs that were focused on specialty yeast are coming up with a "specialty" NEIPA blend, that shows what really pays the bills.

Also, went to a beer bar in the burbs, couldn't order their Jai Alai because I wasn't a member of some club (I could order it after 5), so I guess that's the future of beer bars.

I don’t believe that’s legal.

Also what the ****

Who is it?

 

[Unbreakabolt]

I don’t believe that’s legal.

Also what the ****

Who is it?

Serious question, as a consumer why should I be excited about CCB coming to Chicago?

 

[Gonzoillini1]

I don’t believe that’s legal.

Also what the ****

Who is it?

Looks like Brass Tap Oak Park

https://www.brasstapbeerbar.com/beer/OrlandPark/bottle

 

[trickytunadicky]

Serious question, as a consumer why should I be excited about CCB coming to Chicago?

If they send kegs of skittle beer and oatmeal cookie porter, I am cool with it.

 

[Tooch4321]

Looks like Brass Tap Oak Park

https://www.brasstapbeerbar.com/beer/OrlandPark/bottle

Orland Park, please don’t ever mix that awful place up with Oak Park...

 

[lb304854]

Orland Park, please don’t ever mix that awful place up with Oak Park...

Oak Park will never have as many Mattress Firms. Deal with it.

 

[SecretSquirrel]

bold claim for what google tells me is a week old beer, is it in cans and avail yet? i'd brag about this new lovely pils I made with a neipa water profile that is an easy drinkin light lager/pils crusher hybrid but i dont wanna sound like steven seagal talking about the best screenplay he's ever read.

on draft only for this first batch, side by side with highlife which I drink a **** ton of was good enough for me. I liked Chuglife but Hotel life is closer to the teal thing imho

 

[vav1]

Serious question, as a consumer why should I be excited about CCB coming to Chicago?

If you're not excited, then you're either not their target consumer. Which could go either way for them. I'm really excited to drink some fresh Jai Alai, but i'm going to be watching date codes like a hawk. If, however, they're coming to the market with tempered expectations for how many CEs they'll actually sell, they'll do fine here.

If they send kegs of skittle beer and oatmeal cookie porter, I am cool with it.

Skittlebrau.

 

[SecretSquirrel]

If you're not excited, then you're either not their target consumer. Which could go either way for them. I'm really excited to drink some fresh Jai Alai, but i'm going to be watching date codes like a hawk. If, however, they're coming to the market with tempered expectations for how many CEs they'll actually sell, they'll do fine here.



Skittlebrau.

I could care less they are coming but you’re right I’m not their target market. but what’s the over/under before we see dusty CCB on the shelves?

 

[vav1]

I could care less they are coming but you’re right I’m not their target market. but what’s the over/under before we see dusty CCB on the shelves?

Couldn't care less. Could Care means you care a little.

And it depends. I'd say we're good for about 7 months of solidly fresh beer, and then it'll start to dwindle as the honeymoon wears off. They're coming in through Windy City, which is generally quite a bit better with inventory control and not overselling...they learned their lesson with Oskar Blues.

I would love to be wrong, fwiw.

 

[Unbreakabolt]

Couldn't care less. Could Care means you care a little.

And it depends. I'd say we're good for about 7 months of solidly fresh beer, and then it'll start to dwindle as the honeymoon wears off. They're coming in through Windy City, which is generally quite a bit better with inventory control and not overselling...they learned their lesson with Oskar Blues.

I would love to be wrong, fwiw.

Thanks for the serious response.

Can you shed any light on how a large brand like ccb coming into the market impacts shelf space and tap handles for other brands? I.e what brands will I be less likely to see a tap handle for, what breweries face increased competition, etc.?

Also, who do you perceive to be their target customer?

 

[vav1]

Thanks for the serious response.

Can you shed any light on how a large brand like ccb coming into the market impacts shelf space and tap handles for other brands? I.e what brands will I be less likely to see a tap handle for, what breweries face increased competition, etc.?

Also, who do you perceive to be their target customer?

Always, i love talking about the industry and will always answer questions. The more informed the consumer, the better choices they make. In theory anyway.

First, let's talk about the perception of "Big" here. All the data i can find suggest CCB is producing northwards of 60,000-70k barrels (bbls) per year (as of 2015...interestingly the BA data i have from 2014 says 44k, so the Brewhub expansion probably accounts for that massive jump)....that's on par with Allagash (70k bbls in 2014) Breckenridge (pre buyout, 64k bbls in 2014), Elysian, etc. Also for reference, Rev did just under 55k bbls in 2014, and by comparison Middle Brow did 180 bbls in 2014, those loveable lil scamps

CCB is still regional in size, so i'm guessing their goal is probably 100kbbls by 2020 if they're "reasonable," which adds 20k bbls per year....a fuckload of beer, but attainable when put in the right places and sold through the sales channels appropriately. Again using Rev as a comparable, they have the capacity to push out 150k bbls/yr, which if i had to guess, would put that at 97k this year. Which brings us to the Chicago market.

Right now, most business that would be in the market to carry CCB's products are having a tough enough time caring about more than half of what's available now, and speaking as a buyer, i'm finding it harder and harder to sift through everything to find something i like that works with the programs i run. I've been racking my brain to figure out what in this market makes CCB relevant to consumers here, and here's what ive got:

1: Everyone here knows Jai Alai like everyone there knows Anti Hero. You traded for it at one point, you sought out the brewerie's other releases, etc. I think they're banking on that name recognition. And i mean it'll work for awhile, i plan to put Jai Alai on tap at some point for sure.

To directly answer your questions: Handles that will go to CCB are the same anyone else, 'cuz it's the world of Rotation. There isn't a ton of consistency right now. Local guys both bigger and smaller, out of towners will all equally gain and lose...Assuming their quality and freshness stay up, they can easily fill the void that Green Flash is leaving...which still isn't a ton of beer, but satisfies the "oh good you want an ipa, here's a new one" scenario. So that's a plus in their column, honestly. The only ones that truly stand to lose, and this is applicable in most situations not just CCB, are the breweries that have any or all of the following issues:

A: Subpar quality
B: Poor packaging (e.g. still on the $9.99 Bomber train)
C: Little to no marketing presence (no reps in the market, no community engagement)
D: "**** it, let's try there" mentality (Sub-35k bbl breweries that send a little beer and don't care what happens)
E: Inattentive or Smaller/Unknown/Poor/Oddball wholesaler choice

Shelfwise, **** man, i don't know. It's a shitshow. There's too many options. I don't know what i'd be doing at Binny's if i were still there at this po...well actually i do, and it wouldn't be pretty.

As for their target consumer, i think they're banking on people like me, honestly. Someone that's been around for 10 years and done the rare **** and done the sour **** and done the barrel aged **** and just wants to relax with a can of beer without thinking too hard about it, and knowing about Jai Alai that whole time but not able to drink it *finally* being able to on the regular.

TLDR Soundbite if you were the press: CCB coming to Chicago isn't any more or less disruptive to the market than any other brewery of equal size, at the end of the day. Simply put, the impact their distribution has here is, i think, slightly more interesting than the average regional, but overall our market has grown exceptionally weary of new brands in the consumer's mind, and so i don't think they're going to get the velocity they're probably looking for, no matter how good their brands are.

 

[vav1]

Actually, you know, with further thought, big out of state Regionals (Founders, Bell's, Brooklyn, etc) all stand to face competition for stacks at places like Mariano's and Whole Foods. That's the tier they're in.

 

[trickytunadicky]

Always, i love talking about the industry and will always answer questions. The more informed the consumer, the better choices they make. In theory anyway.

First, let's talk about the perception of "Big" here. All the data i can find suggest CCB is producing northwards of 60,000-70k barrels (bbls) per year (as of 2015...interestingly the BA data i have from 2014 says 44k, so the Brewhub expansion probably accounts for that massive jump)....that's on par with Allagash (70k bbls in 2014) Breckenridge (pre buyout, 64k bbls in 2014), Elysian, etc. Also for reference, Rev did just under 55k bbls in 2014, and by comparison Middle Brow did 180 bbls in 2014, those loveable lil scamps

CCB is still regional in size, so i'm guessing their goal is probably 100kbbls by 2020 if they're "reasonable," which adds 20k bbls per year....a fuckload of beer, but attainable when put in the right places and sold through the sales channels appropriately. Again using Rev as a comparable, they have the capacity to push out 150k bbls/yr, which if i had to guess, would put that at 97k this year. Which brings us to the Chicago market.

Right now, most business that would be in the market to carry CCB's products are having a tough enough time caring about more than half of what's available now, and speaking as a buyer, i'm finding it harder and harder to sift through everything to find something i like that works with the programs i run. I've been racking my brain to figure out what in this market makes CCB relevant to consumers here, and here's what ive got:

1: Everyone here knows Jai Alai like everyone there knows Anti Hero. You traded for it at one point, you sought out the brewerie's other releases, etc. I think they're banking on that name recognition. And i mean it'll work for awhile, i plan to put Jai Alai on tap at some point for sure.

To directly answer your questions: Handles that will go to CCB are the same anyone else, 'cuz it's the world of Rotation. There isn't a ton of consistency right now. Local guys both bigger and smaller, out of towners will all equally gain and lose...Assuming their quality and freshness stay up, they can easily fill the void that Green Flash is leaving...which still isn't a ton of beer, but satisfies the "oh good you want an ipa, here's a new one" scenario. So that's a plus in their column, honestly. The only ones that truly stand to lose, and this is applicable in most situations not just CCB, are the breweries that have any or all of the following issues:

A: Subpar quality
B: Poor packaging (e.g. still on the $9.99 Bomber train)
C: Little to no marketing presence (no reps in the market, no community engagement)
D: "**** it, let's try there" mentality (Sub-35k bbl breweries that send a little beer and don't care what happens)
E: Inattentive or Smaller/Unknown/Poor/Oddball wholesaler choice

Shelfwise, **** man, i don't know. It's a shitshow. There's too many options. I don't know what i'd be doing at Binny's if i were still there at this po...well actually i do, and it wouldn't be pretty.

As for their target consumer, i think they're banking on people like me, honestly. Someone that's been around for 10 years and done the rare **** and done the sour **** and done the barrel aged **** and just wants to relax with a can of beer without thinking too hard about it, and knowing about Jai Alai that whole time but not able to drink it *finally* being able to on the regular.

TLDR Soundbite if you were the press: CCB coming to Chicago isn't any more or less disruptive to the market than any other brewery of equal size, at the end of the day. Simply put, the impact their distribution has here is, i think, slightly more interesting than the average regional, but overall our market has grown exceptionally weary of new brands in the consumer's mind, and so i don't think they're going to get the velocity they're probably looking for, no matter how good their brands are.

What's funny, is I called out 2.... essentially pastry beers...a Skittles Berlinner that has been on tap at Hunahpu Day the last 2 years, and their Oatmeal Cookie Porter, which is almost bland compared to something like what Mikerphone or More puts out, but still in the pastry category. I'll drink an occasional Marshall Zhukov, but frankly, I still have them in the cellar from when I did 5 rounds of El Catador, so I may or may not be the target audience. Now would I grab any of those on tap if they struck my fancy as the best choice at say Publican or Burger Antics? **** yes. CCB still makes some killer beer.

 

[user 306237]

A lot of wise, thoughtful words

I’m more curious what’s on the other other side of this “either”:

If you're not excited, then you're either not their target consumer. Which could go either way for them. I'm really excited to drink some fresh Jai Alai, but i'm going to be watching date codes like a hawk. If, however, they're coming to the market with tempered expectations for how many CEs they'll actually sell, they'll do fine here.



Skittlebrau.

LYMI

Also, if you were still at Binnys, I have some thoughts on how the tap room’s beer list would be different (different can of worms and no disrespect to current management - but there may be fewer tap takeovers where Binnys is on the hook for all the half-empty kegs, among other things).

 

[trickytunadicky]

Actually, you know, with further thought, big out of state Regionals (Founders, Bell's, Brooklyn, etc) all stand to face competition for stacks at places like Mariano's and Whole Foods. That's the tier they're in.

I have some thoughts here, but what I think as a customer isn't always the reality from the top down, as I am not out there buying bricks of All Day IPA, which is the kind of beer that pays the bills.

I haven't thought of Brooklyn as a brewery in ages, and I think while Founders puts out some solid staples, some of their special releases have been some big missteps, and the launch of their mug club in Detroit was a **** show of under- and mis-communication. If I signed up this year, I would not be renewing next year. Not Chicago, but just another sign of mismanagement. My perception has been that Bell's has gotten smarter about their programming over time and will far better.