Fermentis Safbrew LA-01 Recipe Testing - Low Alcohol

[kcpup]

@Cool_Hand_Luke did you send me the yeast? If so i didn't get it. I have been brewing a number of ULA beers with good success. I have a NA NEIPA recipe ready to brew when I get the NA-01. Cheers

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

@Cool_Hand_Luke
Yes it's in my imminent plans, had to catch up with some other beers first as I was unable to brew for 6 weeks and I wanted to coordinate a LA brew with another so that I could use the spent LA grains as an adjunct in that brew.

Cool! I actually just did the same here today with the spent grains from a saison.

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

@Cool_Hand_Luke did you send me the yeast? If so i didn't get it. I have been brewing a number of ULA beers with good success. I have a NA NEIPA recipe ready to brew when I get the NA-01. Cheers

I have not yet. I’ve been a bit anal about the repackaging process to avoid any cross contamination so it takes a fair bit of set up to do a repackaging run. I’ve been waiting to see if there were any other requests.

I’ll get it packaged and sent in the next two weeks though. Haven’t forgotten you!

 

[DuncB]

Cool! I actually just did the same here today with the spent grains from a saison.

Do you mean for a saison? I'm not sure there's enough sugar left in my normal beer mash with a 88 % mash efficiency and 87% brewhouse on my last saison.

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

I only run about 80-83% mash efficiency or so depending on how fast I lauter. Combine that with doing a 12 gallon batch and then only running 5ish gallons of additional sparge water over the grains for the NA batch, I wound up with 1.024 wort for the NA bonus brew.

 

[DuncB]

That sounds like a good way to do it. I'm going the other way and will add the grains to another set of fresh grains to remash them whilst the others mash.

 

[jj_nash]

OK, so it seems that there has been some interest in this yeast, but without the availability of smaller quantities, a limited number of folks that have been able to try and test it. I was also having trouble even finding it in 500g quantities here in the United States. In any case, I've ordered a 500g block from Belgium, and given the quantity, I'll never get through that on my own.

Enter this thread.

Concept:

1. If you are interested in trying the yeast, respond here and then PM me. If you are "in", I'll send you some for the price of postage free (due to the weight it will be less than 0.80 USD to mail). I'm not looking to re-coup cost on the yeast, mainly interested to see what people here can do with it. We've got a creative bunch here!
2. I'll be packaging up 12.5g vacuum sealed packages for innoculating 5-6 gallons of wort. The recommended pitching rate from Fermentis is 0.5 - 0.8 g/L. It is not recommended to make a starter due to the higher potential for contamination. I'll leave more info on the repackaging procedure further down.
3. Expectation will be that those receiving some of the yeast will post back recipes, procedures, results, tasting notes, and any mishaps to this thread to explore the options for this new yeast.
4. I've got enough to send out 25-30 12.5g packets to people. We'll see how much interest there is, but feel free to let me know if you want more than one packet to do additional testing.
5. Lastly, housekeeping item on the thread. This is intended for those wanting to experiment with this yeast, brainstorm on how to use it, discuss procedures, share recipes and notes, etc. It isn't intended to be a debate thread on the merits of low/no alcohol beer.

Resources/Info:

From Fermentis:
SafBrew™ LA-01, is a Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. chevalieri that has been specifically selected for the production of low and/or non-alcoholic beverages (<0.5ABV). This yeast does not assimilate maltose and maltotriose but assimilates simple sugars (glucose, fructose and sucrose) and is characterized by a subtle aroma profile. Yeast with a medium sedimentation: forms no clumps but a powdery haze when resuspended in the beer.

As the beer at the end of fermentation will contain a lot of residual fermentable sugars, it is mandatory to pasteurize the beer after packaging (between 80 and 120 PU). This yeast is not suitable for cropping and repitching. As a note, in webinar link below they dicuss that 50 PU is sufficient.

Product Info Sheet
Webinar: Technical Characteristics of SafSour™ LP 652 and SafBrew™ LA-01

General Info (much of this is in the webinar):

1. LA-01 is POF+, so capable of producing 4VG
2. Fermentis recommends an original gravity of 1.028 or lower for a 0.5% ABV or less beer
3. Repitching or propogation is not recommended
4. Pasteurization needs to happen after packaging

Yeast Re-packaging procedure:
Feel free to comment if you can think of a better way on this front, I want to make sure it gets to those interested un-contaminated.

Draft procedure:

1. Create empty vacuum sealed bags
2. Pasteurize empty bags in 63C (145F) water bath for 30 minutes
3. PPE: Gloves, mask, hat, sanitizer
4. Sanitize cutting implement for opening vacuum seal bags
5. Heat sanitize measuring spoon
6. Open bulk bag
7. Open empty vacuum sealed bag
8. Fill bag with 12.5g yeast (on scale)
9. Vacuum seal individual bag
10. Vacuum seal bulk bag (as needed)
11. Refrigerate
12. Mail

Let me know if you are interested. I'm excited to see what comes out of this!

Are you still offering to share this yeast with someone in west MN who would like to experiment with it? Thanks.

 

[staffordj]

@Cool_Hand_Luke are you still providing this yeast?
what is the consensus on using this yeast versus other low alcohol methods? I would like to make a batch, but don't have time to explore all the different techniques, so I am looking for a solid option to start. I am interested in a happy pale ale to start.

 

[DuncB]

@staffordj
Welcome, have a look at ultralowbrewing.com for some LA recipe / brew advice.
And read this thread.

 

[kcpup]

@staffordj

A good recipe to start out with is this one:


It's David Heath's Low Alcohol IPA. The vid description includes a link to his recipe. It will introduce you to ULA brewing with good details on how do a ~1% beer that tastes good. The ULA website is fantastic as well, with even MORE information.

 

[staffordj]

@staffordj
Welcome, have a look at ultralowbrewing.com for some LA recipe / brew advice.
And read this thread.

Thanks, and I have. I was hoping to get some opinions on how this yeast compares to other techniques. What are the pros and cons?

 

[DuncB]

@Cool_Hand_Luke are you still providing this yeast?
I would like to make a batch, but don't have time to explore all the different techniques, so I am looking for a solid option to start. I am interested in a happy pale ale to start.

This aspect of your request made me think you just wanted a recipe and to try it as you are time poor.

Information about this style of brewing is in short supply, I have been short of time and will be away for a while so haven't brewed with it yet.

 

[kcpup]

Thanks, and I have. I was hoping to get some opinions on how this yeast compares to other techniques. What are the pros and cons?

I have been brewing for 14 years and brewing ULA beers for 8 months. Yes the yeast method works really well with high temp mash. You WILL want either lactose or maltodextrin added for body. I've used the three maltotriose negative dry yeast strains: Windsor, London and S-33. I've also used standard dry yeast like Verdant, WB06, and others. That takes the alcohol above 1%. Try the process in David's vid. I think you'll find it tasty and a good springboard for crafting your own recipes for ULA beer.

 

[Protos]

Today I ordered a sachet of LA-01 (found a brewstore that repacks it from the 500 g bricks). I hope the yeast will help me to recreate some traditional Scandinavian recipes like Hvidtøl and Skibsøl which require 20 to 40% attenuation. I've tried those recipes with Windsor, London and S-33 and even employed a successful mash at 80С/ 176F and still never went lower than 65% attenuation, even with the super hot mash! I'll need a bit more than the 15% attenuation stated by Fermentis so I think I'll mash low.

My question regards the subsequent Pasteurisation.
I have no way to force carb and keg my beers, so bottling is the only option avaiable to me. I think I'll need to pasteurise bottled and slightly carbed beer (the carbonation is low in those recipes anyway). I found a thread where guys do this successfully on bottled and partially carbed Cider, putting bottles for 10 minutes into 88C/190F water. What do you think, is it a feasible method to pasteurise the low-alcohol beers as well?

 

[DuncB]

I think it should work, 88c is above pasteurisation temperature. Best to ask on that thread about pasteurisation.
Of interest how do they manage those traditional low attenuated Scandi drinks?

 

[Protos]

Traditionally, they drank them up very fresh. Longer-stored varieties of the same beers were still low-attenuated but stronger (up to 5 ABV) and hoppier. Some were also made of Smoked Malt, which somewhat inhibited the spoilage as well.
With the weak beers, infection wasn't a concern because it just had no time to manifest.

 

[DuncB]

Thank you @Protos
keep us updated on your efforts.

 

[bigboy147]

I have been looking for good N/A beer and a dark beer recipes in 1 1/2-2 gal at a time,years back i was looking with below 1% you see a have a problem I am allergic to alcohol...safbrew LA-01 sound good...Years back i was looking at N/A but did not like the idea of boiling the

 

[Northern_Brewer]

This from Escarpment is a good overview of things to consider for no/low alcohol beer in general, seems in general there's a fear that encouraging homebrewers to make LA beer without access to pasteurisation is a health risk. They have a new yeast NAY for such beers, which is a wild Hanseniaspora uvarum they've isolated that is maltose-negative yeast, non-phenolic and non-diastatic

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0323/8825/1780/files/Non-Alc_Guide.pdf

• Use ALDC enzyme to reduce the risk of diacetyl formation
• Make a low-gravity wort with a high mash temperature to reduce fermentability
• Use yeast nutrients in the whirlpool to make up for the low-nutrient wort
• Pasteurize the finished beer (and read our other notes on the safety of NA beer)

In order to make safe low and no alcohol products at home, we suggest the following two
categories:
Non-Alcoholic Sours using heterofermentative lactic acid bacteria (L. brevis)
Acidity (pH less than 3.5) ensures the product is safe as long as it is kept cold

Low Alcohol IPAs using regular yeast (ABV >1%)
Slightly higher ABV will reduce risk of contamination
High IBU or hop content will reduce risk of contamination
Ensure you acidify the final beer to below 4.2 pH
Ensure product is kept cold

Two of the recipes in this guide are compatible with homebrewing.
And they need a lot more pasteurisation than beer with alcohol to be safe.

 

[Wayek]

Hmmm... perhaps this could finally be an answer to making a good low ABV mead?
if you can send some to the mysterious land of canada I'll give it a shot!

 

[DuncB]

Hmmm... perhaps this could finally be an answer to making a good low ABV mead?
if you can send some to the mysterious land of canada I'll give it a shot!

I'm not sure that the LA-01 would be good for a low alcohol mead.
THe yeasts can't metabolise long chain sugars and honey is made from glucose and fructose. Both of which the LA-01 and the NAY yeast would cope with fine.
You would need to find a way to stop fermentation ie by pasteurising the mead early in fermentation. It would remain sweet and vulnerable to reinfection and secondary fermentation.

 

[Wayek]

I'm not sure that the LA-01 would be good for a low alcohol mead.
THe yeasts can't metabolise long chain sugars and honey is made from glucose and fructose. Both of which the LA-01 and the NAY yeast would cope with fine.
You would need to find a way to stop fermentation ie by pasteurising the mead early in fermentation. It would remain sweet and vulnerable to reinfection and secondary fermentation.

Yeah, it would be a very small batch so that wouldn't really be a problem if I kept it chilled after the stop ... I wonder if you used corn syrup cut honey as opposed to raw unprocessed I suppose that would determine it a little differently on how it would ferment?
I think at most it would go to around maybe 2%? and even then that's OK for me ..

I've done this before with wild yeast from spruce tips but it can get too unpredictable

 

[DuncB]

Corn syrup and honey are simple sugars so would be fully metabolised by the yeast.
I think all of the sugar in your mead regardless of batch size would be metabolised.

If you were just using very dilute honey to get a low potential alcohol you might as well use an ordinary yeast.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I'm not sure that the LA-01 would be good for a low alcohol mead.

I agree with the comment from @DuncB. A beer wort is something like 50% maltose and 15% more simple sugars. With different mashing techniques, you could push the simple sugars down to 10% or less. Unlike typical beer yeasts, LA-01 does not ferment maltose, so you can end up with less than 15% attenuation in a beer wort. Mead is likely near 100% simple sugars, which LA-01 can ferment.

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

I also agree with @CascadesBrewer and @DuncB. Better to do a low gravity mead and then pasteurize and backsweeten if targeting a semi-sweet mead. While I have not tried a simple sugar fermentation with this yeast, according to its properties it would fully ferment a honey/water must.

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

Has anyone who received yeast tried another batch recently? I haven’t done one in a while myself. My brother who had non-alcoholic fatty liver disease that I had been trying to find a good way to brew something non-alcoholic for, ended up getting cancer in 2022 and fought hard for 15 months. He died this past summer. F*ck cancer.

I do plan to keep trying out new methods, just haven’t had the energy to try out some other strategies. Also if I missed getting yeast out to anyone, sorry about that. If you requested some last year and still want some and didn’t get any shoot me a PM. I do have lots left, but it also sounds like a few folks have been able to find home brew level quantities now.

Anyway, I hope those that did get some that it works out for you if/when you try it out!

 

[Wayek]

Has anyone who received yeast tried another batch recently? I haven’t done one in a while myself. My brother who had non-alcoholic fatty liver disease that I had been trying to find a good way to brew something non-alcoholic for, ended up getting cancer in 2022 and fought hard for 15 months. He died this past summer. F*ck cancer.

I do plan to keep trying out new methods, just haven’t had the energy to try out some other strategies. Also if I missed getting yeast out to anyone, sorry about that. If you requested some last year and still want some and didn’t get any shoot me a PM. I do have lots left, but it also sounds like a few folks have been able to find home brew level quantities now.

Anyway, I hope those that did get some that it works out for you if/when you try it out!

Oh wow.. so it would fully ferment a mead then? hmmm maybe the wild spruce tip yeast might be the better option then?

Terribly sorry to hear that! and holy crap...I really hope that the low-brewing didn't attribute to it - 2 years ago I had cholangitis and ended up in the hospital which pretty much put a hard end to me drinking anything remotely alcoholic.. my liver is returning to normal size and getting better now but my gallbladder is full of stones which my specialist seems to be more concerned about

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

Oh wow.. so it would fully ferment a mead then? hmmm maybe the wild spruce tip yeast might be the better option then?

Terribly sorry to hear that! and holy crap...I really hope that the low-brewing didn't attribute to it - 2 years ago I had cholangitis and ended up in the hospital which pretty much put a hard end to me drinking anything remotely alcoholic.. my liver is returning to normal size and getting better now but my gallbladder is full of stones which my specialist seems to be more concerned about

No, it was a condition he was born with. He didn’t drink really at all. But liver disease is nothing to mess around with. Our livers do so much for the rest of our body. I’m glad you are looking for options for non-alcoholic beverages!

 

[kmarkstevens]

@Cool_Hand_Luke Condolences on your brother.

Dang, I missed this thread the first time around. Any conclusion on the yeast? I'm fine with a higher 1-2% ABV outcome.

I bet an oat stout could be fine-tuned for something decent.

 

[Wayek]

No, it was a condition he was born with. He didn’t drink really at all. But liver disease is nothing to mess around with. Our livers do so much for the rest of our body. I’m glad you are looking for options for non-alcoholic beverages!

Thanks! and you're absolutely right... unfortunately I had to dispose of a brew that got too high in the ABV once

 

[Cool_Hand_Luke]

@Cool_Hand_Luke Condolences on your brother.

Dang, I missed this thread the first time around. Any conclusion on the yeast? I'm fine with a higher 1-2% ABV outcome.

I bet an oat stout could be fine-tuned for something decent.

I was somewhat happy with all three [of my experiments so far], but my favorite was the rye brown ale. Recipe is in this thread. An oat stout I think would also be quite good. Did you want some yeast to try it out?