Fermentation out of control

[PeteNice]

I brewed a wit yesterday and, didn't have an airlock so I used a blowoff tube. I woke up to find the blowoff tube had overflowed with foam, I bought an airlock, tried it, and it exploded off the carboy in under an hour. I went back to a blowtube setup and within minutes foam was rushing through the tube into the container. I placed the carboy in a big pot, and filled the pot with 65 degree water, thinking the fermentation temp was too high - my home had gotten up to 70. It's been about 40 mins and nothing has changed. I'm sitting here watching it rise up out of the carboy with the plug removed. HELP!

 

[flars]

Temperature control is important to not get off flavors from a run away hot fermentation. Some yeasts are just very aggressive though and even with temperature control a blow off tube is required. It looks like you are also short on head space volume. At least 1.5 to 2 gallons of head space is a good safety factor for standard ale yeasts.

It will take some time for the water bath to absorb some of the heat from the volume of beer in the fermentor.

 

[PeteNice]

Ohhhh shoot...headspace, dang amateur mistake! haha - the blowoff container seems to have enough space to get me thru the night - in case foam comes thru the tube, there should be enough room to hold it without overflowing. I had the rubber stopper out for a bit because it was foaming up so crazy, do you think it'll be OK? As I know you know so much time goes into brewing, it'd break my heart if the batch got infected or something. Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it!

 

[day_trippr]

I'm confused - but I've been drinking. One of the whole reasons for using a blow-off instead of an S-lock or 3-piece is to avoid turning locks into ceiling darts.

If you're shipping foam through the tube, that's A Good Thing. If your beer is running warm, find a way to cool it back down...

Cheers!

 

[universalfrost]

great learning method. primary should always be at least a gallon or 1.5 gallon more than the size of the batch you are brewing if 5 gallon or under. double that as your batch doubles.

i learned the same way as you are now... i had a geyser coming from my 6 gallon bucket (where the airlock had been before it was blown off) one morning after i filled it to the 5.5 gal mark with wort the day before.

Also, keep ice bottles floating in the wort until the activity slows down... I use the wyeast belgian white strains for my whit's and they are active (maybe not as much as yours) even in the low 60's...

Here's my last batch of Belgian Whit I brewed ...notice the head space on my fermenter.... (thats after only a few hours ... it ended up having almost 10 inches of krausen before it quit being crazy and all at 64 degrees)

 

[PeteNice]

Wow that's a lot of foam! Nice fermenter BTW, never seen one like that. Coulda used one of those. Well I gotta say, lesson learned, dang rookie mistake. Thanks so much for the feedback. She's still bubbling pretty rapidly, but the blowoff is working, added ice to the water bath it's in. Fingers crossed it didn't get infected when the rubber stopper was out.

 

[stodds]

That's a pretty hostile environment with that active yeast with stuff flowing out, not in. Infection is unlikely. A blowoff tube carrying foam out is the idea of a blowoff tube. I would get a blowoff back in when you can to minimize infection chances when activity subsides.

 

[Jako]

i had a beer blow the lid off my fermenter you should be fine as infection goes.

 

[kh54s10]

Lot of action because the fermentation temperature was too high. More heat = more aggressive fermentation but not necessarily for the better. Most ale yeasts do best in the mid sixties.
Look into setting up a swamp cooler. It's a container of water about 6-8 inches deep with the fermenter in it. Use ice bottles to control the temperature.

Airlocks plug easily then blow out violently - results = cleaning the ceiling.

So start with the blow off tube.

Your fermenter is a little too full. IMO the conical pictured is not full enough, at least if the beer stays in there much after fermentation is done.

It was stated to brew 1 to 1.5 gallons more than batch size. This is only advisable if you have the space in your fermenter and you allow for that in your recipe. If you do that with a recipe or kit designed for 5 gallons and end up with 6 - 6.5 gallons your beer will not be as designed. (diluted).

 

[PeteNice]

Man, I've brewed a few times before but WOW I've never seen yeast do this haha. I've also never tried to brew a belgian, guess that's why? I've definitely learned a valuable lesson here to leave ample space in my fermenter. I like the swamp cooler idea, I'm definitely going to try that, thanks! Happy Brewing, Pete

 

[kh54s10]

Look up the yeast and get the optimum temperature range. Shoot for the middle. Belgian yeasts like warmer temperatures than most.

 

[JKenshi]

Man, I've brewed a few times before but WOW I've never seen yeast do this haha. I've also never tried to brew a belgian, guess that's why? I've definitely learned a valuable lesson here to leave ample space in my fermenter. I like the swamp cooler idea, I'm definitely going to try that, thanks! Happy Brewing, Pete

I did the exact same thing the first time I fermented in a carboy... 5 gallons of wort in a 5 gallon carboy just doesn't cut it. I had the same results.

 

[Eric_S]

Looks like you need more headspace but a bigger blow off tube helps too. You can use a large enough diameter hose that you don't need a stopper.

 

[universalfrost]

IMO the conical pictured is not full enough, at least if the beer stays in there much after fermentation is done.

5.5 gallons in a 7.9 gallon conical... plus yeast that is known to be aggressive.. this was a pic of the krausen just starting... at end of fermentation the krausen was over 10 inches tall.. if i had used even a 6.5 gal carboy or bucket the krausen would have come out the top... YMMV but i would rather not have krausen all over the place...

I'm drinking the Belgian Whit in the pic of the conical right now and has been kegged for a few weeks.. no problem at all with the headspace that was in the conical and the CO2 filled up all of the headspace and didn't allow O2 to get at the beer and oxidize it...


If you were to brew a 5.5 gal batch in a 12 gallon conical then yes thats way too much headspace and the CO2 would not be able to overtake the entire headspace

 

[kh54s10]

5.5 gallons in a 7.9 gallon conical... plus yeast that is known to be aggressive.. this was a pic of the krausen just starting... at end of fermentation the krausen was over 10 inches tall.. if i had used even a 6.5 gal carboy or bucket the krausen would have come out the top... YMMV but i would rather not have krausen all over the place...

I'm drinking the Belgian Whit in the pic of the conical right now and has been kegged for a few weeks.. no problem at all with the headspace that was in the conical and the CO2 filled up all of the headspace and didn't allow O2 to get at the beer and oxidize it...


If you were to brew a 5.5 gal batch in a 12 gallon conical then yes thats way too much headspace and the CO2 would not be able to overtake the entire headspace

What did you make that had 10 inches of krausen. I have gotten a fairly big blow off once or twice with 5.25 gallons in a 6 gallon Better Bottle. But usually it comes just into the neck, maybe 3-4 inches and that includes the narrowing of the bottle.

If you are relying on the co2 "blanket", it is true that co2 is heavier than air and it will protect the beer for a while, but eventually it will mix with the oxygen in the air. So, if you are going to leave a beer in there for an extended period it would be wise to seal it tight after fermentation has finished. Or transfer to a smaller vessel.

 

[universalfrost]

What did you make that had 10 inches of krausen. I have gotten a fairly big blow off once or twice with 5.25 gallons in a 6 gallon Better Bottle. But usually it comes just into the neck, maybe 3-4 inches and that includes the narrowing of the bottle.

If you are relying on the co2 "blanket", it is true that co2 is heavier than air and it will protect the beer for a while, but eventually it will mix with the oxygen in the air. So, if you are going to leave a beer in there for an extended period it would be wise to seal it tight after fermentation has finished. Or transfer to a smaller vessel.

Belgian Whit with Wyeat 3944 http://www.wyeastlab.com/yeast-strain/belgian-witbier

STRAIN:3944 BELGIAN WITBIER™
This versatile witbier yeast strain can be used in a variety of Belgian style ales. This strain produces a complex flavor profile dominated by spicy phenolics with low to moderate ester production. It is a great strain choice when you want a delicate clove profile not to be overshadowed by esters. It will ferment fairly dry with a slightly tart finish that compliments the use of oats, malted and unmalted wheat. This strain is a true top cropping yeast requiring full fermenter headspace of 33%.

 

[ncbrewer]

I don't think it's been mentioned, but you should get a fermometer for your carboy. Then you won't have to guess at the temperature.

 

[bleme]

It's a little too late now, but you should probably keep some FermCap-S on hand for situations like this. It also stops boil-overs.

 

[kh54s10]

I've found that attention to the start of the boil, fermentation temperature control and a blow off assembly make it so that I don't need to put silicone solution into my beer. I used FermCap for a while and still had a boil over or two and several blow offs even with it's use. I gave up on it.

I do realize that it sinks to the bottom and may not end up in what you are drinking and it is the same thing as anti-gas medicine but I don't use that either. The FDA recommends filtering it out.

 

[day_trippr]

I've found that attention to the start of the boil, fermentation temperature control and a blow off assembly make it so that I don't need to put silicone solution into my beer.[...]

Exactly. When folks ask why a thermometer on a boil kettle makes any sense this is what I point to - boil-over avoidance.
Same thing with preparing starters, a modicum of care and appropriately sized vessels can supplant the need for silicones.

Cheers! (I don't use cow hooves in my beer, either )

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

I ferment in two 1 gallon carboys. To maximize my output, I have very little head space. I prevent an unreasonable amount of foam from escaping my fermentors during extremely active high krausens two ways. First I push my blow off tube through my stopper so that it extends about an inch beyond the bottom. If the tube doesn’t extend through the rubber stopper every bit of foam is pushed into the blow off tube. When the tube extends through, the outside of the tube directs the foam into a sort of vortex. Then my tube is long enough to make one loop before the end goes in my airlock solution. The loop gets a little beer in it keeping a small amount of pressure to give the foam a chance to dissipate before entering the blow off tube. The most I ever lose even with extremely active fermentation and very little head space is about 4 oz.

 

[JKenshi]

I ferment in two 1 gallon carboys. To maximize my output, I have very little head space. I prevent an unreasonable amount of foam from escaping my fermentors during extremely active high krausens two ways. First I push my blow off tube through my stopper so that it extends about an inch beyond the bottom. If the tube doesn’t extend through the rubber stopper every bit of foam is pushed into the blow off tube. When the tube extends through, the outside of the tube directs the foam into a sort of vortex. Then my tube is long enough to make one loop before the end goes in my airlock solution. The loop gets a little beer in it keeping a small amount of pressure to give the foam a chance to dissipate before entering the blow off tube. The most I ever lose even with extremely active fermentation and very little head space is about 4 oz.

Thank you for this! I'm going to be doing some small (1gallon) batches and I was worried about the headspace... I blew half a gallon on my last 5 gallon batch. Hopefully this will help!

 

[kh54s10]

How did you get so much blow off? I ferment 5.25 gallons in 6 gallon better bottles. The worst I have ever blown off was about 12 ounces.

 

[JKenshi]

How did you get so much blow off? I ferment 5.25 gallons in 6 gallon better bottles. The worst I have ever blown off was about 12 ounces.

I should think the answer is obvious... slightly more than 5 gallons to start. All in a 5 gallon carboy with some wonderfully aggressive White Labs Irish Ale yeast.

Prior to brewing beers I had been brewing cider and headspace was never really an issue, with the exception of limiting it as much as possible in secondary.

 

[kh54s10]

Thank you for this! I'm going to be doing some small (1gallon) batches and I was worried about the headspace... I blew half a gallon on my last 5 gallon batch. Hopefully this will help!

I should think the answer is obvious... slightly more than 5 gallons to start. All in a 5 gallon carboy with some wonderfully aggressive White Labs Irish Ale yeast.

Prior to brewing beers I had been brewing cider and headspace was never really an issue, with the exception of limiting it as much as possible in secondary.

So the problem wasn't the blow off itself. The blow off was excessive due to not a big enough fermenter.

 

[JKenshi]

So the problem wasn't the blow off itself. The blow off was excessive due to not a big enough fermenter.

Hey, don't you victim shame me! And yes, it was all my fault. First time fermenting in glass. I did have a terrible suspicion of it though and had a blow off tube ready.

 

[kh54s10]

Hey, don't you victim shame me! And yes, it was all my fault. First time fermenting in glass. I did have a terrible suspicion of it though and had a blow off tube ready.

Oops. Sorry, I mixed you up with the OP who didn't know how to deal with or even know that there could be blow off.

 

[Cape Brewing]

... just use fermcap... all headaches eliminated

 

[kh54s10]

... just use fermcap... all headaches eliminated

Not always. I have had both boil overs and blow off even when using Fermcap S. I decided I did not want silicone in my beer so I stopped using it. Pay attention during the boil. Ferment cool with a blow off tube and you don't need it.

 

[Cape Brewing]

I have had both boil overs and blow off even when using Fermcap S. I decided I did not want silicone in my beer so I stopped using it.

What made you make that decision? I have used Fermcap for a long time in both the boil kettle to avoid brutal clean up headaches as well in the fermenter and have never noticed any downside. If there is one, I’m all for learning about it and maybe I’ll stop.

 

[kh54s10]

It is recommended by the FDA (I think) that it is filtered out. It would require a very fine filter to remove it causing other headaches.

It should drop to the bottom and not get transferred to the bottle or keg but I still don't want silicone in my beer. I know that it is the same as gas medicines, but still.

And as I said, even when I used it, it didn't always work.

 

[Cape Brewing]

It is recommended by the FDA (I think) that it is filtered out.

I don’t think that’s accurate. The FDA limits the ppm on it but doesn’t require or recommend it be filtered out.

Either or... I was just curious why someone would be opposed to it. It’s standard for me and I use it in every batch and it works beautifully every time. I’ve never had a problem with it and, personally, would rather avoid the mess and potential contamination that comes with massive blow off.

 

[kh54s10]

I don’t think that’s accurate. The FDA limits the ppm on it but doesn’t require or recommend it be filtered out.

Either or... I was just curious why someone would be opposed to it. It’s standard for me and I use it in every batch and it works beautifully every time. I’ve never had a problem with it and, personally, would rather avoid the mess and potential contamination that comes with massive blow off.

Again, as I said, it did not "work beautifully every time" for me. I don't know where I read it but the article that I read definitely said to filter it.

I control temperatures and rarely get a "massive" blow of and I have never had any problems with contamination.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Eh, different experiences I guess