EVABarrier - Is it really that great?

[tracer bullet]

I'll give observations, I won't make a statement on it either way. Imply, yes, but I could be wrong, misunderstanding, or missing facts. I'd love to know what other people think about this material.

I use EVA Barrier for my CO2 and serving lines. I notice that any beer left overnight in the serving line tastes different than the beer in the keg. I believe it to be oxidized, it's clearly sweeter or less hoppy flavored or both. It would imply that the EVABarrier tubing is not O2 proof?

I've also tried to research it, I find little or nothing about what it is. But looking up EVA, if that's the important material used in these tubes (it may not be), Ethylene Vinyl Acetate, it's not a very good O2 barrier.

Are these lines actually that great? flexible PVC seems like a better choice, which is exactly what I replaced with the EVA Barrier.

I do know that my beers are better and last longer, and that coincided with the swap to this tubing AND a change to closed transfers at the same time.

 

[DuncB]

Not sure but I'm very happy with them and they work well with the connections.

 

[doug293cz]

There is no polymer that is a true O2 diffusion barrier. For a perfect barrier you need to use metal or glass tubing. EVA just seems to be the best low cost, flexible tubing available for our application.

Brew on

 

[Bassman2003]

I think it would be easy to test and useful to others' to know. I would say that overnight is pretty short when it comes to flavor discernable oxidation. Especially with EVA having decent O2 barrier properties. Also, how long are your lines? If one has the 4mm variety there is not much beer in there anyway. Take a quick pull and down it while holding your nose or dump it. Still miles better than silicon or BevFlex.

On my system, it seems the beer in the lines tends to lose carbonation. So I have always poured a bit, downed it then poured the beer. Maybe your system has a similar flaw? Could it be different carbonation levels?

 

[camonick]

I've also tried to research it, I find little or nothing about what it is. But looking up EVA, if that's the important material used in these tubes (it may not be), Ethylene Vinyl Acetate, it's not a very good O2 barrier.

From a quick search on the interwebs…
“EVABarrier tubing is made with an EVA (Ethylene Vinyl Acetate) outer wall and also an inner proprietary polymer barrier. This tubing is BPA free and odorless.”
“The outer barrier is extruded to precise tolerances, and seals well when used with various John Guest, DuoTight or other push in fittings. The outer barrier gives the tubing excellent kink resistance so the line is able to bend around a tight radius without kinking. The inner barrier is made from a proprietary polymer that has excellent gas barrier, protecting your beer from oxidation. The EVABarrier inner lining is so smooth that it harder for bacteria and beer film to build up on the inner walls.”

I personally noticed a major difference when I switched both sides of my system to EVA from the Bevlex I was using.

 

[day_trippr]

I personally noticed a major difference when I switched both sides of my system to EVA from the Bevlex I was using.

Ditto.

I once stumbled upon what the inner layer is made from and somewhere on HBT there's a post of mine with that info. But it was long enough ago I've forgotten what it was called...

Cheers!

 

[tracer bullet]

Glad to see some replies and thoughts, thanks. I found a few other charts that also show EVA being near the bottom. I'm surprised it fares worse than PVC, even plasticized PVC (flexible version). Given that stuff tends to be thicker, it'd be even better for several reasons.

I actually just swapped out to stainless steel from my CO2 tank, through the frig bulkhead, and for the first bit of line inside the frig itself. EVA barrier is now only the last foot or so to the kegs, to give some flexibility to attach them.

For the dispensing side I still prefer the EVABarrier tubing, or I should simply say tubing, over other options. I'm tinkering with a "Picnic tap 2.1", and a flow controlled Nukatap, hoping to at least meet the tubing for pour performance, and ditch the lines that, I still believe, allow the beer to oxidize. I have to give the EVABarrier a bit of a pass if it's the best option, but I'm disappointed tasting the oxidation happening through it. Hopefully I can learn to love, or modify, one of the non-tube options.

I might be alone but I'm a bit disappointed in the tubing. Especially given that if O2 is indeed allowed in, the entire 6' length of CO2 supply I was running was a non-stop source of oxidation as well. So it's not just pouring the first couple ounces if the whole keg is being exposed.

 

[Bobby_M]

I noticed an extreme improvement in the "first running" of beer in the lines when I went from EJ Ultra Barrier to EVA. Beer that sat in Bevlex or generic PVC tubing always tasted bad prior to that also.

As was mentioned, you can't look at the permeability of plain EVA and make a judgement when there's the liner meant to be the actual barrier. I can't be sure but I THINK the proprietary blend they mention is probably PET.

 

[day_trippr]

That EJ Beverage proprietary plastic was a bit of a joke. It wasn't much better than PVC...

Cheers!

 

[day_trippr]

I knew I had traipsed through this particular tulip patch and the following post confirmed it.
The key to EVABarrier tubing is the EVOH liner...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/gas-line-recommendation.671151/#post-8697916
Cheers!

 

[Bassman2003]

Can't get much better than that!

 

[DuncB]

I knew I had traipsed through this particular tulip patch and the following post confirmed it.
The key to EVABarrier tubing is the EVOH liner...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/gas-line-recommendation.671151/#post-8697916
Cheers!

As you say clue is in the name EVA barrier tubing.
I think if the beer is below par in the tube drink faster or Ditch a bit then pour.

 

[Deadalus]

I knew I had traipsed through this particular tulip patch and the following post confirmed it.
The key to EVABarrier tubing is the EVOH liner...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/gas-line-recommendation.671151/#post-8697916
Cheers!

EVOH is used as an oxygen barrier in pex for radiant heating as well. Pretty sure I used it in my house actually but couldn't have told you what the barrier was beyond it wasn't the aluminum pex.

 

[tracer bullet]

Nice, yes, an EVOH liner goes a super long ways. I do feel better about the tubing, LOL.

I am still curious why I noticed such a flavor change in the beer sitting in the serving line. It wasn't my imagination, I swear. That's what sort of led me down this question about how good or not the tubing was. It certainly *should* be good. Hmm.

 

[wepeeler]

I love Evabarrier tubing, especially with all the easy QDs. My process is definitely better than it was before I switched ie closed transfers etc. That being said, beer in the lines always tastes worse than the beer in the keg, whatever the tubing. I also find it's also a touch warmer. I typically pour out what's in the line, especially if it's been a few days, then pour a fresh glass.

 

[day_trippr]

Since switching to EVABarrier in 2019 I have never felt the need to clear my beer lines, even after being away for a couple of weeks. That's markedly different from well over a decade of experience using Bevlex 200 (pretty much the industry standard solid PVC line) where after a couple of weeks on vacation I could actually see the first ounce or so of beer had darkened and was eminently dumpable.

btw, a 6 foot long run of 4mm ID EVABarrier tubing if totally filled will hold just .75 ounces of fluid...

Cheers!

 

[IDMaynard]

This is from MoreBeer's website

Outer Barrier
The outer barrier is made from EVA material and provides a decent stiffness to the tubing while still remaining pliable. This not only makes EVABarrier extremely kink resistant, it also makes it the best tubing to be used with Duotight, John Guest, and other push-in fittings.

Inner Barrier
The inner barrier is made from a proprietary polymer that acts as an excellent gas barrier. You can rest assured that your beer will be better protected from oxygen exposure, as well as CO2 loss. Your beer will stay fresher for longer and not loose carbonation like with other draft line. With other beverage line, you may notice that beer sitting in the line for an extended period will start to taste flat and/or oxidized. EVA Barrier tubing is unquestionably better in this regard and you will notice a significantly improved freshness of your beer, especially if it's been sitting in the lines for a while.

Due to the high density and smooth nature of the EVABarrier inner wall, the internal surface of the tubing is remarkably smooth and almost completely impermeable. This makes it difficult for bacteria and other microbes to attach to the inside surface of the tubing. Just another way EVABarrier is looking out for you and your beer!

*EVABarrier does not contain plasticizers, or phthalates, that are used to make PVC flexible. These plasticizers are known to leach out into the beer over time and have adverse health effects.

 

[AlexKay]

My experience is that beer that sits in EVA lines eventually goes flat and (noticeably for hoppy beers) gets oxidized. I haven't done a study, but my estimate is that it's multiple days to a week+ before it gets too bad.

I did not notice an improvement in gas-related behavior moving from BevSeal Ultra to EVA. But the EVA was cheaper, needed shorter lines, and was more flexible.

 

[rawlus]

have not seen any downsides in terms of beer quality with eva barrier as compared to other options where downsides were easily observable even for the non discriminating drinker. added plus is thst 6 feel of 4mm eva barrier isn’t really very much liquid volume to be affected in a pint even if there was some degradation effect. in my experiences anyway.

 

[Yesfan]

Pretty much echo what everyone else has said. I done a comparison of EVA and Bevlex 200 PVC and went a full day between pours and I could tell the difference. I had to flush the beer out of the Bevlex line to get to the fresh beer. The PTC connections and no need for worm gear clamps and oteiker clamps/tool are an added plus.

If I had to list a negative, then the ONLY negative I have is how stiff the line is but that is needed for the push to connect fittings. A trade off I can surely accept.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Very interesting read. There was a similar post a few months discussing close to the same topic.

Soon I'll be swapping out my beer lines. I have Bev ones now but the last of a bulk roll. EVA will be in my cart! Not entirely sold on which connectors yet but I could swap those anytime.

Thanks for the great info. This will go into my file.

 

[tracer bullet]

I appreciate the discussion as well. Glad to hear there's EVOH in the line as well.

Seems that the lines are probably the best you can get, short of something like stainless, so that's a good note on them. Also seems that they do still let some O2 in, as people have seen to varying degrees the beer in the line does change flavor more rapidly than what's in the keg (it's in the eye of the drinker to decide if they care).

I changed my CO2 lines to stainless already, so that I don't have the 24/7/365 O2 uptake through them - whatever amount that actually is (important enough or not to worry about is an opinion). All but the last foot or so, to make it easier to attach to the kegs. This takes me from about 10' of EVABarrier down to 2', so even with some still in the system it's far less than before.

On the serving side I'll keep poking at options that don't require tubing, but that's another subject.

 

[Bassman2003]

Can you post a photo of your stainless steel keg line setup? Do you have a skill at bending the lines? Also, what is the tubing diameter? Thanks!

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Since switching to EVABarrier in 2019 I have never felt the need to clear my beer lines

Say what? You don't clean your beer lines?

 

[tracer bullet]

Say what? You don't clean your beer lines?

Clear, not clean. As in push a few oz. into a glass and then dump it before filling with the good stuff.

Can you post a photo of your stainless steel keg line setup? Do you have a skill at bending the lines? Also, what is the tubing diameter? Thanks!

Here's the part under the sink, where the tank is obviously. It goes about 5' inside the back of a cabinet, and eventually through the other side and into a bulkhead I stuck into the side of the mini frig. The rest is kind of more of the same. I tried pictures but they were too dark to see much.

It's all 1/4", the flares, the tubing, the compression fittings, and so on. Made it easy to remember.

It's basically a number of fittings that are 1) Compression to flare and 2) Compression to barb. Plus a couple of the 90 degree flare-to-flare to navigate the sharper corners. I could have bent the tube to do it and saved a few fittings but wanted to conserve the space.

I have a cheap bender, they aren't fancy or expensive. It's easy to do, you just have to go slowly and be sure where you want to place the bends.

I left an inch of the EVA Barrier at the CO2 tank, to use fittings already on hand and save a couple bucks. The idea inside the frig after the bulkhead (which has a flare T) is very similar but with about a foot of tubing and terminating in a barb / flare at the keg posts.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks! If there was the desire for ultimate avoidance, one could always wrap the EVA tubing with some tape. But I think the specs on the EVA are good enough to not mess around with anything else. I have my CO2 tank mounted on my fridge door, so I need the flexibility of the EVA to move a bit.

 

[tracer bullet]

Agreed. I've been looking at EVOH tape, though. Actually more for my PET fermenters but if I actually buy any I could consider the remaining EVABarrier tubing as well.

I'm definitely less hot to do it knowing there's at least some EVOH in the lines already. It's no longer a mission, but more a side project I might get around to.

 

[Yesfan]

Very interesting read. There was a similar post a few months discussing close to the same topic.

Soon I'll be swapping out my beer lines. I have Bev ones now but the last of a bulk roll. EVA will be in my cart! Not entirely sold on which connectors yet but I could swap those anytime.

Thanks for the great info. This will go into my file.

You can get the adapters if you still want to use the CMB style disconnects instead of the Kegland versions. The Keglands are a bit tight connecting/disconnecting but (iirc) they are also universal and don't require dedicated gas/liquid posts. I swapped both gas and beer lines on mine. I also have the larger 9.5mm line I use for transfers.

The EVA Barrier/Duotight system is very flexible. When you figure in that along with Fermzilla, Intertap, Nukatap, etc., I've been very pleased and have become a big fan of Kegland as a company.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Clear, not clean.

Sorry, I misread that. Scared me.

 

[KegLand]

You can get the adapters if you still want to use the CMB style disconnects instead of the Kegland versions. The Keglands are a bit tight connecting/disconnecting but (iirc) they are also universal and don't require dedicated gas/liquid posts. I swapped both gas and beer lines on mine. I also have the larger 9.5mm line I use for transfers.

The EVA Barrier/Duotight system is very flexible. When you figure in that along with Fermzilla, Intertap, Nukatap, etc., I've been very pleased and have become a big fan of Kegland as a company.

Thanks for the support. Just saw this thread pop up.

In the past we have not often been part of the American forums but we really should be more involved as it's a good way to get feedback from our customers so we can better deliver products that you guys want.
For KegLand as a business the main reason we moved away from PVC tubing is that all flexible PVC contains plasticizers. If you tried to manufacture PVC tubing without plasticizers it would be rigid (and we have no issue with rigid PVC tubing). So quite a lot of plasticizers need to be added to make a beer line that you can coil up and that is flexible. Even though FDA has approved quite a long list of plasticizers we have found that quite a lot of the commonly used "approved" plasticizers" have in recent time become "not approved". This has happened as we slowly learn more about how plasticizers mess with human hormones and I assume as we learn more in this area more on the approved list will also become not-approved.

I should also say quite a lot of the FDA approved products are not approved and can't get approval in the EU which have more stringent requirements in this area. As KegLand also supplies stuff to Europe we had to make sure we were also making products that meet this high bar.

All PVC tubing contains plasticizers and all PVC tubing will have a certain amount of plasticizers leach into your beverage over time. They may leach such small amounts that they keep the FDA happy and be below a pre-defined threshold but it's not really enough to make me comfortable with PVC. I should also say in brewing we use a wide range of chemicals that are likely going to increase the speed that plasticizers are released into the beverage and these chemicals are not part of the FDA testing which makes me more uncomfortable on the whole issue.

So the main reason why EVABarrier tubing exists in the first place is really because of this issue with PVC. There is really no reason why we need PVC and the cost of the PVC tubing is similar to other alternatives so in our opinion we do not see the reason to need PVC tubing. If you are interested we did a video on this subject here 4 years ago.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Wait...other tubing lets O2 into CO2? Is this a real problem? I seem to have a vague memory of hearing about this earlier this year. I still have vinyl on my CO2 tank. My manifold has a big barb. My beer gas line is all Kegland.

I once kept a big beer for many months on a system with a vinyl gas hose, and it got better and better. Not sure how much impact a gas hose can have. Let's see. Seems like the only O2 you get is whatever makes it into the tube. It can't get into the tank or the keg from the tube unless you're pouring, I believe.

As for EVAbarrier and Duotight, all I can say is that these things have made a huge difference in the amount of aggravation I've dealt with. Taking things apart and putting them back together for cleaning and so on are way faster than they were with older systems, so I have no excuse not to keep things sanitary. The disconnects were a pain because they were so hard to unscrew when they came from the factory, but I decided to try a pair of Japanese faucet pliers with plastic-covered jaws, and they pop the tops right off.

The flow control disconnects are great. I have short tubing in the keezer, and I don't measure it. All the beers come out the way they're supposed to. I know some people don't think highly of them, but I have them on everything but stout, and they seem to be getting it done. They also disassemble more easily than the regular disconnects.

I had Perlick flow-control faucets, and they failed to impress. They're in a box now. The Kegland disconnects allowed me to get rid of them and install Nukataps while keeping flow control.

I wish the disconnects were not so tight. Sometimes they really don't want to move on and off the keg posts. I actually unscrewed a keg post by turning a disconnect. I've also found it a little difficult to attach Duotight stuff to gas valves. I followed the directions, but I found I had leaks unless I tightened them more than the literature said to, and if you overdo it just a little bit, you wreck the threads.

While I'm on the subject, the chrome hand faucet is a winner, too. It would benefit from a different shape to make it easier to grip, though. It likes to spin in the hand.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Thinking this over. There are check valves on my tank's regulator and the secondary regulator. I assume they would make it hard for a significant amount of O2 to go into the tank. The valve on the keg is open all the time, though, so I suppose the tube is like part of the keg as far as the gases can tell.

 

[day_trippr]

Unless you have hard-plumbed your manifold to your kegs, there will be tubing between them and that is where the O2 ingress becomes a potential problem.

fwiw, back in 2019 I replaced every bit of tubing in my shop with EVABarrier tubing and nearly 50 PTCs. Beer lines, CO2 lines for my keezer and the two fermentation fridges and the conditioning fridge, beer gas to the keezer, even the keezer's glass rinser water supply And I'd do it again in a heartbeat, because all of that helps keep my kegged beer in good condition - longer...well, except for that rinser

Cheers!

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Thanks to you brewing degenerates, I am replacing the line right now. Can't you ever just leave me in blissful ignorance?

Now I can't remember whether the fittings really need nylon washers.

 

[day_trippr]

lol!

PTCs do not need fisheye washers. They have a bevel inside that will deform easier than the nylon washers do and make a tight seal.

Cheers!

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Thanks for the help. But why didn't you remind me that check valves work? I thought the only fitting I had that would go into the manifold was a gas valve, and guess what happened when I tried to pump CO2 through it backward.

Thank God I overbuy fittings. Had a bunch of Duotight stuff lying around, so now I'm ready to go.

 

[Bassman2003]

I am just happy that EVA tubing is affordable or the pressure to spend up would be there. As for your question about O2 getting into the gas lines and how does it get around? Well, the O2 will get into the line. Once it gets into the line, it has an open path either direction. I am learning about gases myself but you have to separate the way gasses mix together from any kind of "flow" we associate with liquids. Gasses penetrate and go everywhere. Sort of like sound. The problem with the poor tubing is that there is a constant supply of new oxygen around. So it keeps on coming in...

Some styles seem to benefit from some oxidation flavor. I brew a version of Jamil's Scottish Ale from "Brewing Classic Styles" and I notice it tastes better as time goes by. Too clean and it is not as interesting.

It is not fun speaking out the realities of O2 ingress and how much it damages beer. Many folks have thrown up resistance and some quite rude. But it is there whether one want to deal with it or not. Might as well learn about your adversary so you can triumph. Or not if one desires.

 

[Yesfan]

EVA Barrier is like that Frank's Red Hot commercial....

"I put that sh!t on everything....."

 

[Broken Crow]

Thanks for the support. Just saw this thread pop up.

In the past we have not often been part of the American forums but we really should be more involved as it's a good way to get feedback from our customers so we can better deliver products that you guys want.
For KegLand as a business the main reason we moved away from PVC tubing is that all flexible PVC contains plasticizers. If you tried to manufacture PVC tubing without plasticizers it would be rigid (and we have no issue with rigid PVC tubing). So quite a lot of plasticizers need to be added to make a beer line that you can coil up and that is flexible. Even though FDA has approved quite a long list of plasticizers we have found that quite a lot of the commonly used "approved" plasticizers" have in recent time become "not approved". This has happened as we slowly learn more about how plasticizers mess with human hormones and I assume as we learn more in this area more on the approved list will also become not-approved.

I should also say quite a lot of the FDA approved products are not approved and can't get approval in the EU which have more stringent requirements in this area. As KegLand also supplies stuff to Europe we had to make sure we were also making products that meet this high bar.

All PVC tubing contains plasticizers and all PVC tubing will have a certain amount of plasticizers leach into your beverage over time. They may leach such small amounts that they keep the FDA happy and be below a pre-defined threshold but it's not really enough to make me comfortable with PVC. I should also say in brewing we use a wide range of chemicals that are likely going to increase the speed that plasticizers are released into the beverage and these chemicals are not part of the FDA testing which makes me more uncomfortable on the whole issue.

So the main reason why EVABarrier tubing exists in the first place is really because of this issue with PVC. There is really no reason why we need PVC and the cost of the PVC tubing is similar to other alternatives so in our opinion we do not see the reason to need PVC tubing. If you are interested we did a video on this subject here 4 years ago.

The thread seems to have run its course, so hopefully not hijaking, but I need to ask:
I love my EVABarrier and want to switch over to the 3mm ID lines but I'm not too sure how well my Duotight tower shanks (in my Series-X) will handle mono-tight fittings as these:
https://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/monotight-6.5mm-joiner.html..are the only ones I can find in Canada with the correct OD... same with your own website:
https://www.kegland.com.au/products/monotight-6-35mm-female-x-6-35mm-female-push-in-joinerJust looking for certainty.

 

[DuncB]

Won't you need a 6.35 mm to 8mm adapter ? Is it currently an 8mm onto the beer shank?
That's what I use to fit onto the duotight ball lock as I can't get the specific ones for the 6mm EVA barrier. Also I cant get the 5/8 female to 6mm eva that goes on the beer shank in my kegfridge. I don't have beer shanks with tails.