Keezer and now pouring slow

[mggray87]

Hello, I brewed beer maybe 15 years ago. It's been a long time. I always wanted to make a keezer to have beer on draft. Getting some sixtel kegs from local breweries to start. This keezer build is giving me the itch to buy some spike equipment to brew beer again and now have the ability to keg it instead of bottling.

That being said. I'm picking up some sixtels this week but as of now the keezer is done. 3 taps. The gas lines and beer lines have been cleaned and sanitized. It's just sitting in the keezer now. My only variable is exact length of my 8mm evabarrier tubing. I cut them at 8' to play it safe. I know I've read 5-6'. But I was scared to cut to short. Should I? From what I'm reading I was going to set my serving pressure for all taps at 10-12psi. More than likely 10. Gas lines are way long at 3 feet each. I'll cut them down to length that just allows them to get on the keg. So probably cut them in half to 1.5' for gas lines which is the same evabarrier. My fan isn't mounted yet.

630ss taps, added self closing springs.quick connects on beer and gas lines. D coupler with ball lock. Beer lines have duotight with flow control on the fitting just to be safe.

Any idea about the eva barrier length for me at 10psi?

 

[mggray87]

I finished my keezer. 3 tapes. All duotight 8mm tubing gas and bev. Komos tank/reg set at 12 and 14 I see no change in my 20 second pour which seems way slow for 14psi. Lines 5.5-6ft. Not sure why it would be so slow. Even 12psi was 20. Put it to 14. Seems to not change at all. Duotight bev out quick connects with the flow control but those aren't messed with. They are still fully open. I hooked the kegs up last night and I turned off the CO2 tank but left the serving pressure at 12psi to just see when I wake up if it had a leak with the komos D couplers and quick connects that I screwed on. Waking up, it has a little more pressure than I set so I figured it wasn't leaking but now when serving. 20 seconds is best I can get at 12-14psi. Any ideas???

 

[VikeMan]

Do all three lines, with different kegs, behave the same way?

Do you have another gauge that you can use to verify the low pressure gauge on your regulator?

 

[pvpeacock]

8 mm is OD (outer diameter) which is irrelevant. The ID (inner diameter) is the key. Is it 4mm or 5mm? I have 4mm evabarrier lines in my keezer. While I could probably get away with something shorter, my lines are 8' long. I use Kegland flow control ball lock disconnects so I have a little more control if I need to slow the flow down even with 8' hoses. I have my CO2 regulator set at 12 psi by the way. Better to start too long than too short.

P.S. Congrats on getting back into the hobby. I took 20 years off and glad I got back into it. The equipment, hops and yeast available now are way better than when I started and you will notice a difference as well.

P.S.S. I now see that you have flow control disconnects in your photo. Good job. This should help you balance your beer lines. But again, better to start too long at first and shorten if needed or possible.

 

[AlexKay]

Liquid lines a few feet "too long" just mean a slightly slower pour. Much better that way than the alternative! Carry on.

 

[mggray87]

Do all three lines, with different kegs, behave the same way?

Do you have another gauge that you can use to verify the low pressure gauge on your regulator?

both the mango cart and IPA bought not homebrew pour same 18 seconds or so..... no idea what would cause it... im getting new duotight flow control quick connect ball locks maybe they dont press down far enough on pin? but even 18psi i get 17 seconds.

 

[mggray87]

i

Liquid lines a few feet "too long" just mean a slightly slower pour. Much better that way than the alternative! Carry on.

just hooked up a sixtel of mango cart and Epidemic ales juicenado im getting slow pours, cut lines to 5.5ft at 12psi 20 second pours.. at 18psi 17 seconds.. i have no idea what is wrong.. im wasting all the beer pouring and testing.. what a waste of money this all is.

 

[mggray87]

Do all three lines, with different kegs, behave the same way?

Do you have another gauge that you can use to verify the low pressure gauge on your regulator?

i dont have one. i can order one.. do you recommend one? i can rip off the komos one....

willl this one work???

SENCTRL 0-30 PSI Glycerin Liquid Filled Low Pressure Gauge, 2.5" Dial Size, 1/4 NPT, Stainless Steel Case, Lower Mount, for Water Oil Air Pressure Test​

 

[doug293cz]

i

just hooked up a sixtel of mango cart and Epidemic ales juicenado im getting slow pours, cut lines to 5.5ft at 12psi 20 second pours.. at 18psi 17 seconds.. i have no idea what is wrong.. im wasting all the beer pouring and testing.. what a waste of money this all is.

Are your flow control QDs wide open? If not, you should try that. It's generally accepted that a pour should take about 10 seconds. It should be safe to shorten your lines, but I would only do one at first - less you have to replace if you find out what "too short" is.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Moderator note:

Thread may seem a little disjointed as two threads on the same topic by the same OP have been merged to make things easier for members to follow.

doug293cz

 

[mggray87]

Are your flow control QDs wide open? If not, you should try that. It's generally accepted that a pour should take about 10 seconds. It should be safe to shorten your lines, but I would only do one at first - less you have to replace if you find out what "too short" is.

both are all the way open.... as far as I can go... i double checked by closing them all the way and reopening them.. maybe the gauge is wrong with the new komos regulator. reason i say that is because even at 18psi with 5ft line, id think id get all foam it actually poured good.. still 17seconds.. instead of 20. BUT it was all foam. it might even poured better possibly.


also wonder if having the regulator sideways (if you scroll up and see my photo) i wonder if that gives it a false reading? do they need to be upright?

 

[IslandLizard]

im wasting all the beer pouring and testing..

You can at least drink it...

im getting new duotight flow control quick connect ball locks maybe they dont press down far enough on pin?

That's a very valid observation!

[EDITS] If the poppet in the post (or QD) doesn't get depressed far enough, it will hamper the flow. Both poppets, in the post and in the QD need to be in balance so they're both fully open when engaged. There is some leeway, but if one of the springs is too long or too stiff, the other won't open fully, or enough.

[EDITS] You could remove the poppets in one keg / tap line combo to test that theory:

1. Not sure, but I don't think Flow Control QDs can be opened, or serviced at all. So this is only for regular QDs
2. Disengage the Sanke coupler from the keg
3. Remove both the poppets and springs from the liquid post on the Sanke coupler (the top one) and from the corresponding (regular) ball-lock QD connected to that tap line.
4. Reconnect the ball-lock QD to the post, there are no springs and poppets involved anymore
5. Make sure the faucet is closed!
6. Re-engage the Sanke coupler

If it pours fine with those poppets (obstructions) removed, you've found the problem. You can then shorten the stiffest spring, or both, by cutting/snipping a turn off the bottom (wide end). Then straighten the bottom turn out a little with needle nose pliers.

 

[mggray87]

You can at least drink it...


That's a very valid observation!
If the poppet in the post (or QD) doesn't get depressed far enough, it will hamper the flow. Both poppets, in the post and in the QD need to be in balance so they're both fully open when engaged. There is some leeway, but if one of the springs is too long or too stiff, the other won't open fully or enough.

You could remove the poppets in one keg / tap line combo to test that theory:

1. Disengage the Sanke coupler from the keg
2. Remove poppets from the liquid post (the top one) and from the corresponding ball-lock QD on the tap line
3. Reconnect the ball-lock QD to the post
4. Make sure the tap is closed!
5. Re-engage the Sanke coupler

If it pours fine with those poppets (obstructions) removed, you found the problem. You can shorten the stiffest spring, or both, by cutting/snipping a turn off the bottom (wide end).

yea i can drink it i know. but im not off until sunday and between shifts im toying with it just draining it LOL. plus 2 sixtel kegs 41 pints each. is plenty for myself lol even if i burn through half LOL now i need to find a video on how to remove the poppets. I have a 3rd D coupler here i can fix for this and put it on and test it. Im going to take apart the Duotight quick connect flow control when i get off to see whats inside and such. But what im understanding is your saying remove the insides so its a straight shot. and if it flows like hell then i figured it out. hmm let me look at video of how to remove the insides from my stainless ball lock

EDIT: i just read you said they need to be similar. so thats going to be a cutting game and testing to make sure they have the same resistence. this might be a long game LOL IFFFFFFF this is the problem

 

[mggray87]

also

You can at least drink it...


That's a very valid observation!

[EDITS] If the poppet in the post (or QD) doesn't get depressed far enough, it will hamper the flow. Both poppets, in the post and in the QD need to be in balance so they're both fully open when engaged. There is some leeway, but if one of the springs is too long or too stiff, the other won't open fully, or enough.

[EDITS] You could remove the poppets in one keg / tap line combo to test that theory:

1. Not sure, but I don't think Flow Control QDs can be opened, or serviced at all. So this is only for regular QDs
2. Disengage the Sanke coupler from the keg
3. Remove both the poppets and springs from the liquid post on the Sanke coupler (the top one) and from the corresponding (regular) ball-lock QD connected to that tap line.
4. Reconnect the ball-lock QD to the post, there are no springs and poppets involved anymore
5. Make sure the faucet is closed!
6. Re-engage the Sanke coupler

If it pours fine with those poppets (obstructions) removed, you've found the problem. You can then shorten the stiffest spring, or both, by cutting/snipping a turn off the bottom (wide end). Then straighten the bottom turn out a little with needle nose pliers.,

i have the ones if i look into the threaded side it looks like it has some round spring/clip thing holding everything together. how do i get that little spring clip.

SANKEY TO BALL LOCK KEG COUPLER.​

 

[VikeMan]

i dont have one. i can order one.. do you recommend one? i can rip off the komos one....

willl this one work???

SENCTRL 0-30 PSI Glycerin Liquid Filled Low Pressure Gauge, 2.5" Dial Size, 1/4 NPT, Stainless Steel Case, Lower Mount, for Water Oil Air Pressure Test​

That would work. It's a cheapo, but it should be good enough (close enough) to verify your pressure.

 

[doug293cz]

also wonder if having the regulator sideways (if you scroll up and see my photo) i wonder if that gives it a false reading? do they need to be upright?

The regulator orientation makes no difference.

Brew on

 

[mggray87]

You can at least drink it...


That's a very valid observation!

[EDITS] If the poppet in the post (or QD) doesn't get depressed far enough, it will hamper the flow. Both poppets, in the post and in the QD need to be in balance so they're both fully open when engaged. There is some leeway, but if one of the springs is too long or too stiff, the other won't open fully, or enough.

[EDITS] You could remove the poppets in one keg / tap line combo to test that theory:

1. Not sure, but I don't think Flow Control QDs can be opened, or serviced at all. So this is only for regular QDs
2. Disengage the Sanke coupler from the keg
3. Remove both the poppets and springs from the liquid post on the Sanke coupler (the top one) and from the corresponding (regular) ball-lock QD connected to that tap line.
4. Reconnect the ball-lock QD to the post, there are no springs and poppets involved anymore
5. Make sure the faucet is closed!
6. Re-engage the Sanke coupler

If it pours fine with those poppets (obstructions) removed, you've found the problem. You can then shorten the stiffest spring, or both, by cutting/snipping a turn off the bottom (wide end). Then straighten the bottom turn out a little with needle nose pliers.

Ok so I removed poppets and springs on both sides Put it together. Poured and it poured the same. I cut my 8mm evabarrier lines to 3ft. Hooked them up. I have my regulator reading 12-13psi ish and my pours for 16oz is about 13 seconds. I can live with that. But curious how 10psi is what everyone uses and I have to use higher. And my lines are 3 feet now. Not 6 in my keezer

 

[doug293cz]

Ok so I removed poppets and springs on both sides Put it together. Poured and it poured the same. I cut my 8mm evabarrier lines to 3ft. Hooked them up. I have my regulator reading 12-13psi ish and my pours for 16oz is about 13 seconds. I can live with that. But curious how 10psi is what everyone uses and I have to use higher. And my lines are 3 feet now. Not 6 in my keezer

Your system with Sankey couplers, ball lock adapters, and Duotight flow control QDs, may have greater flow resistance than a straight ball lock corny plus ordinary QDs system. That would mean you need less line length to get the total flow resistance you need for good pours at any given pressure.

Brew on

 

[IslandLizard]

Your system with Sankey couplers [...] and Duotight flow control QDs, may have greater flow resistance than a straight ball lock corny plus ordinary QDs system.

Now you mentioned it, the Duotight flow control QDs may very well be the cause of the restriction.

Sankeys themselves don't have much restriction. You can pour 5 second pints, no sweat, and not much foam.

 

[mggray87]

Your system with Sankey couplers, ball lock adapters, and Duotight flow control QDs, may have greater flow resistance than a straight ball lock corny plus ordinary QDs system. That would mean you need less line length to get the total flow resistance you need for good pours at any given pressure.

Brew on

Now you mentioned it, the Duotight flow control QDs may very well be the cause of the restriction.

Sankeys themselves don't have much restriction. You can pour 5 second pints, no sweat, and not much foam.

Thanks guys. Yea right now I have 3ft of line and about 13 seconds. I can live with it. Not going to mess with it. I'll just drink these two kegs and then off to find 3 sixtels to replace them now that it's good enough for me. Not going to stress over it.

Local home brew is sending me the duotight non flow control quick connects. Maybe they might run different but in the meantime I still have the ability to cut another foot off and run 2 feet instead of the 3. I may even try that.

I was just confused and bummed because I been reading 6 feet with This evabarrier and 12psi. And when u had that 23seconds pour. It wasn't running like everybody else so I was tripping out. But at 12psi 3ft. I'm pretty satisfied.

 

[day_trippr]

I was just confused and bummed because I been reading 6 feet with This evabarrier and 12psi.

fwiw, I run 6.5' EVABarrier 4mm ID at 11 psi (for 2.5 volumes) and 9' EVABarrier 4mm ID at 15 psi (for 3 volumes) and get very high quality pours on both. But, I use simple CMB QDs (and non-FC faucets)...

Cheers!

 

[KegLand]

Your system with Sankey couplers, ball lock adapters, and Duotight flow control QDs, may have greater flow resistance than a straight ball lock corny plus ordinary QDs system. That would mean you need less line length to get the total flow resistance you need for good pours at any given pressure.

Brew on

Yes that is correct. If you are using the Duotight Flow Control Ball Lock Disconnect you need to use larger ID Beer line or just shorten the beer line a bit otherwise you are going to have double resistance from the beer line and the QD fitting.

Also The flow control QD fitting even in it's fully open position will still have some inherent flow resistance so less beer line length is required as well.

 

[wepeeler]

Yes that is correct. If you are using the Duotight Flow Control Ball Lock Disconnect you need to use larger ID Beer line or just shorten the beer line a bit otherwise you are going to have double resistance from the beer line and the QD fitting.

Also The flow control QD fitting even in it's fully open position will still have some inherent flow resistance so less beer line length is required as well.

I was under the impression that the Duotight Flow Control Disconnects are to be used with 5mm ID x 8mm OD Evabarrier tubing. Evabarrier doesn't have larger than a 5mm ID with 8mm OD.

I'd love to switch my setup to all Duotight fittings, but I'm a little concerned with the reviews. "Hard to connect/disconnect to keg posts." "Hard to turn Flow Control knob." I've had great luck with the push-in fittings on the liquid side so far, using regular Ball Lock QDs, Evabarrier tubing, and plastic Pluto Beverage Guns. Would be great to switch over the air side of my setup as well!

 

[mggray87]

Yes that is correct. If you are using the Duotight Flow Control Ball Lock Disconnect you need to use larger ID Beer line or just shorten the beer line a bit otherwise you are going to have double resistance from the beer line and the QD fitting.

Also The flow control QD fitting even in it's fully open position will still have some inherent flow resistance so less beer line length is required as well.so

i literally cut my lines to about 2 ft. its not foaming. its as short as I can from D coupler to Spout. Its not super slow. I mean its not a Race right? LOL

 

[KegLand]

I was under the impression that the Duotight Flow Control Disconnects are to be used with 5mm ID x 8mm OD Evabarrier tubing. Evabarrier doesn't have larger than a 5mm ID with 8mm OD.

I'd love to switch my setup to all Duotight fittings, but I'm a little concerned with the reviews. "Hard to connect/disconnect to keg posts." "Hard to turn Flow Control knob." I've had great luck with the push-in fittings on the liquid side so far, using regular Ball Lock QDs, Evabarrier tubing, and plastic Pluto Beverage Guns. Would be great to switch over the air side of my setup as well!

Yes absolytely you can use the 5mm x 8mm OD beer line but if you use that beer line you just can't use the same length that you would normally use with a standard disconnect. Typically with the 5mm x 8mm we would recommend 3-4meters but if you use the FC ball lock disconnect then we would recommend that you use between 1-2.5meters.

 

[mggray87]

Yes absolytely you can use the 5mm x 8mm OD beer line but if you use that beer line you just can't use the same length that you would normally use with a standard disconnect. Typically with the 5mm x 8mm we would recommend 3-4meters but if you use the FC ball lock disconnect then we would recommend that you use between 1-2.5meters.

Confirming before buying. Replacing my duotight flow control ball locks to duotight ones without flow control will solve this? Making sure because I'm gonna order new 8mm tubing that's 4mm inside. Since I already cut them 3ft.