Draft line material help!

[rtstrider]

Hello everyone! I have been running into an issue with vinyl draft line in the ol kegerator. It seems no matter what I do the line lasts for right under a year then it has to be replaced. The lines are cleaned with an Oxiclean soak after every empty keg including disassembling and soaking the faucet, starsan is run through it, then beer. Every 2 months or so I'll give it a soak in BLC. The stuff that comes out with BLC is definitely NASTY! Welp I replaced the lines October last year and now they're (one really) is starting to get a bit....Funky....again. Is 1 year around the normal lifespan for el cheapo Amazon vinyl hose? Are there any benefits to swapping to EVA barrier outside of the shorter line runs? Does it last longer than vinyl? Is there any other type/material of draft line that would have more life/be far superior to el cheapo vinyl hose? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Bobby_M]

The liner is quite smooth so it does clean easier. It comes down to how the cleaning happens. Running a brush through it would go well above and beyond the chemical soak. Alternatively, using a pump to recirculate BLC solution in a continuous loop would also do a lot better.

EVA is remarkably better than vinyl for oxygen barrier so it would be reason enough to switch.

 

[rtstrider]

The liner is quite smooth so it does clean easier. It comes down to how the cleaning happens. Running a brush through it would go well above and beyond the chemical soak. Alternatively, using a pump to recirculate BLC solution in a continuous loop would also do a lot better.

EVA is remarkably better than vinyl for oxygen barrier so it would be reason enough to switch.

My hoses are around 12 feet or so. I have brushes but they won't go that far. Maybe 2 and a half to 3 feet or so. Pumping blc would be better than soaking in blc eh? Welp a recirculation pump is definitely on the to do list in that case!

 

[Bobby_M]

I use this pump for line cleaning Super Sucker Transfer Pump Self Priming. I have a 2 gallon bucket with a spigot that feeds the input of the pump. Then a short hose from the pump output to this fitting so I can snap my black QDs on.

Then I put the bucket under the faucet for the return... It cleans the faucets well at the same time.

 

[day_trippr]

I have to say I cannot relate to the notion of needing to change beer lines annually. Even when I was still using 10-12 feet per faucet of Bevlex 200 - pretty much the industry standard solid PVC beer line - a cleaning every six months or so by recirculating a standard BLC or LLC solution (whichever I had on hand) would leave the lines good to go for at least another 6 months.

I built my current keezer in the fall of 2020 using EVABarrier tubing throughout. Went a year - probably around 150 gallons - then did a cleaning cycle in the fall of 2021 and blew the lines dry prior to getting my back fixed. When I started brewing again this February the keezer was ready to go.

Using "sanitizer" right before putting beer in a line never seemed rational to me so I never do it. Beer isn't sanitary. Also, prolonged Star San contact will visually mess up PVC beer lines with a white slimy thing. May do the same thing to EVABarrier tubing, never tried it (and wouldn't)...

Cheers!

 

[rtstrider]

Think I may break down and order a pond pump. Figure there should be a male to male threaded fitting that can adapt the pond pump inlet to the current pin lock/adapter I have. Going to do that and order a tiny thing of BLC for giggles and just see what happens before ordering more hose. Figure the friction from recirculation might knock some more things lose/clean a bit better.

 

[Albionwood]

Is 1 year around the normal lifespan for el cheapo Amazon vinyl hose?

Yes, sounds about right. Might get a little longer by tweaking your cleaning method: Stop using Oxyclean (it can leave a residue) and StarSan (same). Instead, every time you change kegs, run hot BLC solution through it, letting it soak for about 30 minutes before flushing with hot water.

Are there any benefits to swapping to EVA barrier outside of the shorter line runs?

Yes! For one it is much less oxygen-permeable, so you don't get a shot of stale beer at the start of every pour. For another, stuff doesn't stick to the inside as well, so it cleans much easier and more thoroughly. And finally, the DuoTight fittings really are the bomb, worth the investment IMO.
Drawback: $ and heat sensitivity - dont use water hotter than about 170F or it can get soft and kink.

Does it last longer than vinyl?

Yes.

Is there any other type/material of draft line that would have more life/be far superior to el cheapo vinyl hose?

Bevlex is better than the cheapo stuff; thicker-walled and smoother interior. Still PVC, but I get more than a year out of it.

 

[VikeMan]

Think I may break down and order a pond pump.

"Pond" pumps come in a lot of sizes. For a keezer recirc, it doesn't take much power. This one is cheap and works great:

https://www.amazon.com/PULACO-Submersible-Fountain-Aquariums-Hydroponics/dp/B07VR1BGC5
Here's how I adapted mine:

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Are there any benefits to swapping to EVA barrier outside of the shorter line runs?

EVA barrier line is amazing. Switching to it will make a huge difference compared to vinyl and even other premium lines. From personal experience switching from Ultra Barrier line to EVA, I found the following...

1. EVA oxygen impermeability is much, much better. After even a single day, the beer in the non-EVA line would turn brown and taste off due to oxidation. The EVA line stays fresh even after a week
2. EVA lines clean very well due to their very slick interior - my lines are at least 2 years old
3. John Guest or Duotight fittings make assembly and maintenance easy
4. EVA is great on the gas side as well. No leaks ever using Duotight and no fiddling with otiker clamps and hose barbs that often lead to microleaks

If you can make the switch you will not regret it - better beer, easy installation, easy maintenance

 

[rtstrider]

You know EVA barrier is starting to sound good now. I could definitely use some help in picking the right size and line length. Right now I have 12 foot 3/8 draft line per tap and that seems to do the trick. Any shorter and it's foam city. What size in mm EVA barrier should I be looking at and would I need to use 12 feet per tap still?

 

[jddevinn]

I haven't liked the duotight fittings in gass lines, they always end up leaking. I ended up just using a swagging tool to stretch the ends and add normal barbed connectors for gas line.

Cleaning all the lines at once with some 3D printed QD to QD connectors.

 

[rtstrider]

Ended up ordering 100ft of the el cheapo line and will invest in better line come winter. It should be here tomorrow and should last till December easily so there's that. In the meantime I'll be saving up for the good stuff

 

[day_trippr]

When you get around to the EVABarrier upgrade, go with the 4mm ID tubing, and figure 1/2 foot per psi for the lengths...

Cheers!

 

[rtstrider]

Eva barrier is happening early next year for sure! That and Nukataps! In the meantime I'll invest in a pond pump and some extra BLC

 

[Graham H]

Eva barrier is happening early next year for sure! That and Nukataps! In the meantime I'll invest in a pond pump and some extra BLC

You can get screw-on ball lock adapters for Nukataps as well. If you modify your pump like @VikeMan did, you can connect to your first bev line very easily. Then connect the second line’s ball lock coupler to the adapter on the Nukatap, linking the two together. Repeat as needed for the number of taps you have. On the last tap, skip the ball lock adapter and just run tubing back to the bucket. If this tubing doesn’t stay put on the tap, there’s also a barbed growler attachment that Nukatap sells—this should hold the return line in place.

I recently modified my gas system and ended up replacing the existing lines with 8mm EVA and Duotight. I encountered one of the two gripes I’ve heard with regards to Duotight—they are more likely to leak if you apply a lateral strain on the connection (pulling “sideways”). Kegland’s solution is very simple—they sell female-female and female-male 90° fittings. Solved the problem right away.
The other gripe I’ve heard (not encountered myself) is that older versions of the DT fittings can be weakened by Starsan. Supposedly, Kegland has altered their production material to a more resistant plastic.

 

[mnbrewr]

I use a cheap pond pump from harbor freight and the pass through ball lock post that Bobby noted above. I found I get a better flow pumping through the tap and out the ball lock. The two gallon buckets usually fit nicely under a tap. Get a 2nd bucket and you can fill the 2nd bucket with your rinse water while the first is cleaning and then just pick up the pump and move it to the rinse bucket without even turning off the pump.

 

[wsmith1625]

I use a cheap pond pump from harbor freight and the pass through ball lock post that Bobby noted above. I found I get a better flow pumping through the tap and out the ball lock. The two gallon buckets usually fit nicely under a tap. Get a 2nd bucket and you can fill the 2nd bucket with your rinse water while the first is cleaning and then just pick up the pump and move it to the rinse bucket without even turning off the pump.

I have the same setup, but my water flow is in the opposite direction. I have a carb cap on the pump line feeding into my quick disconnect. Then I just open the tap and let the cleaning solution pour back into the bucket. Is there an advantage to running it through the faucet or is that just the way it came together for you?

 

[mnbrewr]

I have the same setup, but my water flow is in the opposite direction. I have a carb cap on the pump line feeding into my quick disconnect. Then I just open the tap and let the cleaning solution pour back into the bucket. Is there an advantage to running it through the faucet or is that just the way it came together for you?

I found that in my setup the flow was most restricted at the ball lock, such that when pumping through the ball lock and out of the tap I didn't seem to get a healthy flow out of the tap. I was worried that the inside of the tap wasn't getting fully submerged in the cleaning solution so I reversed it. A stronger pump would probably overcome this but that's why I have it setup that way.