English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Derp]

I have made some light yellow invert sugar, but find or determine how to make clear invert sugar.

The stuff I made from white/cane sugar was clear until it got to about the 235F-240F mark. Maybe try making a batch and stopping before the color starts to change? That'd probably work, since I think most of the water had evaporated by that point.

 

[okiedog]

Apparently, 236F is conversion temp for invert sugar. If I had such finite control over the temp., I would try to bring it up to 236F, and keep it there for a few minutes. I guess it's something to try anyway.

 

[z-bob]

Is this the right sugar to use to make invert syrup? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Zulka-Pure-Cane-Sugar-8-Lb/28892639 I think Aldi sells their own brands too; one is "organic". It looks a little lighter then demerara sugar; not sure if it's the same as turbinado.

I'm adding this to my todo list, but might not get to it for a while. I assume phosphoric acid will work just as good as lactic acid? (I have a quart of food-grade concentrated phosphoric acid.) The Brits probably use sulfuric, or sulfuric mixed with hydrochloric.

 

[Miraculix]

Why do other recipes add phosphate to it and this one doesn't?

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Is this the right sugar to use to make invert syrup? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Zulka-Pure-Cane-Sugar-8-Lb/28892639

I use that with great success!

 

[cyberbackpacker]

Why do other recipes add phosphate to it and this one doesn't?

For making invert, this is what I have always referenced: http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert/comment-page-1

Using this method produces invert like is sold in the UK to breweries, and is stupid simple to make: Sugar, water, and a touch of lactic acid. If you want to speed up the process for darker inverts, the site has a great calculator for mixing clear invert with molasses.

Oh, and with regard to molasses, I use the Plantation brand and agree it gives some of the licorice-esque flavors and helps make tasty darker inverts.

 

[z-bob]

Here's an interesting page that I found for making baker's and confectioner's invert: http://www.chefeddy.com/2009/11/invert-sugar/

I'd like to try is kind of a hybrid of that technique and unholymess's, plus using a pressure canner. A little excess water should not be a problem as long as you can get the temperature to at least 236°. What about putting a pound of turbinado sugar in a caning jar (I have some nice 3 cup jars that they don't make anymore), a cup of water, and a touch of acid, then pressure can it at 10 or 11 pounds for an hour? (10 lbs is 240° at sea level, I'm 1000 feet higher than that so a little lower) If it's not dark enough after an hour, fire up the pressure canner again and process at 15 pounds for another half hour.

It might take a lot of trial and error to dial-in specific colors, but the times should be repeatable once you do it. And I don't care about getting the color right. Yet.

My wife will be going out of town in a couple of weeks and I can play with it without having to explain what I'm doing and hearing things like "what's that smell??"

 

[Derp]

Speaking of pressure canners, is there any risk of botulism or other nasties when storing invert sugar that is cooked on the stovetop or oven? Does the small amount of acid lower the pH enough that we don't have to worry about botulism if we don't use a pressure canner?

 

[z-bob]

Speaking of pressure canners, is there any risk of botulism or other nasties when storing invert sugar that is cooked on the stovetop or oven? Does the small amount of acid lower the pH enough that we don't have to worry about botulism if we don't use a pressure canner?

The low available water protects it. Plus, you heated it hot enough when you made it to kill anything that was in there to start with. Natural honey is full of botulism spores but it is shelf-stable unless you add a little water to loosen it up.

 

[ba-brewer]

Speaking of pressure canners, is there any risk of botulism or other nasties when storing invert sugar that is cooked on the stovetop or oven? Does the small amount of acid lower the pH enough that we don't have to worry about botulism if we don't use a pressure canner?

The one site recently linked said 6 months in the fridge. If you have clean jars and make it in clean conditions the chances seem slim.

I have some that was left at room temp for a couple months I plan to use in a week or so, if it doesn't kill me I will let you know.

 

[deere322]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/english-ales-whats-your-favorite-recipe.472464/page-36

Post #1429 is a pic of a 1954 Tennant's Barley Wine with all pale colored malts, flaked maize and around 2.75 lbs of invert 1.

This gives you an idea of the color it adds

 

[Miraculix]

View attachment 390558
Gold Label
2 months after kegging yields a clear brew.
Aroma of citrusy fruit, jammy orange marmalade, thick malt backbone melded with booze.
Taste has mellowed, smooth malt, bitter throughout,
Thick orange marmalade, nice carb on the tongue and finishes dry with no sweetness.
Still lip smacking fruity bitterness.

2.5 gal Keg is almost gone.

Would you mind ellaborating a bit on the recipe? Espacially the yeast, OG, FG and actually also everything else is of interest to me. I was thinking about brewing something big and not dark. I think it might be a barley wine. A simple one, maybe a hint of crystal.

 

[deere322]

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2016/11/lets-brew-1954-tennants-gold-label.html
It was an awesome beer!

I'm Skypilot in the comments below

I used a massive slurry s04.

 

[Miraculix]

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2016/11/lets-brew-1954-tennants-gold-label.html
It was an awesome beer!

I'm Skypilot in the comments below

I used a massive slurry s04.

Nice, thanks! I was also wondering if lyle's would be a good substitute for the invert syrup. Rons comment on the brett got me thinking.... maybe extended aging, some oak and brett? I got some wild brett in my fridge which should work well, cought it here with one of my raw ale experiments. It is mixed with Nottingham, but that shouldn't be a problem. Speaking of marmelade, I though about using the fullers strain for flavour in combination with something with a higher attenuation, like Nottingham. This surely will be a long term project, if I start it.

 

[deere322]

Nice, thanks! I was also wondering if lyle's would be a good substitute for the invert syrup. Rons comment on the brett got me thinking.... maybe extended aging, some oak and brett? I got some wild brett in my fridge which should work well, cought it here with one of my raw ale experiments. It is mixed with Nottingham, but that shouldn't be a problem. Speaking of marmelade, I though about using the fullers strain for flavour in combination with something with a higher attenuation, like Nottingham. This surely will be a long term project, if I start it.

Lyle's would work and I've used it many times with the dilution method and Golden Barrel Molasses. See the Unholymess site.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/attachments/imageuploadedbyhome-brew1479335784-827649-jpg.377258/
But for me, Lyle's adds a bit too much toffee flavor for my liking. I highly suggest homemade invert #1 using turbinado sugar(sugar in the raw) in this recipe.

 

[Miraculix]

Lyle's would work and I've used it many times with the dilution method and Golden Barrel Molasses. See the Unholymess site.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/attachments/imageuploadedbyhome-brew1479335784-827649-jpg.377258/
But for me, Lyle's adds a bit too much toffee flavor for my liking. I highly suggest homemade invert #1 using turbinado sugar(sugar in the raw) in this recipe.

Ok, wanted to try out this invert sugar selfmade thing anyway. This will end up with quite a big abv. Doesn't brett die at medium to high abv meaning isn't it more alcohol intolerant than the "normal" ale yeast? I guess, as mine is a wild one anyway, theres only one way to find out....

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It never ceases to amaze me that Gold Label still exists, Sainsbury's still have it as do Morrisons and ASDA. People have had some fun reviewing it. I assume that both it and Mackeson will disappear as and when InBev get their act together. I feel I ought to try some before it disappears.

The Whitbread version of the 1970s went rather heavier on sugar syrup rather than maize, and used lager malt rather than pale. Ron's posted extensively on the history.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have a handpump, its an Angram clip on. It has the long swan neck, which I understand is the kind used in the north. It has a green sparkler, I think that is 1 mm holes?

Unfortunately you can't always rely on the colour to match to the hole size, but yes usually the green ones are the biggest holes - "southern sparklers". It's quite an art matching sparklers to the style and condition of a beer.

Anybody know a way to hook up a 5L mini keg to a handpump? Even 5L is (14) 12oz beers or 10.5 pints. This is the problem you run into with real ale. You have to be able to finish it fairly quickly.

Do you mean a variation on the commercial minikegs, or the more "homebrewy" ones? Either way, I'm sure if you poke around the UK homebrew sites you'll find someone who's adapted them somehow, it's fairly rudimentary from a plumbing point of view but not something I've done myself.

There's a good reason why even in the UK it's fairly rare for homebrewers to do the full cask-conditioning thing! And even when we do, it tends to be on gravity rather than through a handpull. But bottling is probably more common than in the US.

There is a business not far from me here who sells handpumps and casks and supplies. I just bought a pump clip you can make and insert your own label into.

One option that works quite well is to paint a clip with blackboard paint, and then you just write on the "blackboard".

 

[Fredrik Lerigon]

I have been going through most of the posts but I might have missed it, I tried a Fullers IPA (not esb) when I was traveling and at the time I found it fantastic. I could sens a lot of EKG in it and fairly heavy malty flavor (for those cold days in front of the fire). Has anybody heard of a recipe for it or tried it and could give some hints on how to get close?
Fredrik

 

[Miraculix]

I have been going through most of the posts but I might have missed it, I tried a Fullers IPA (not esb) when I was traveling and at the time I found it fantastic. I could sens a lot of EKG in it and fairly heavy malty flavor (for those cold days in front of the fire). Has anybody heard of a recipe for it or tried it and could give some hints on how to get close?
Fredrik

Never had it, was it as sweet as London pride?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Never had it, was it as sweet as London pride?

AIUI Fulller's IPA is just the export name for (or at least a close cousin of) the beer that the UK knows as Bengal Lancer. I've not had it for some time, but from memory it's a pretty typical English IPA - the website lists the grist as crystal and pale, and the hops as 47IBU of Fuggles and Goldings, ABV is 5% in cask and 5.3% in bottle.

I suspect if you poke around you'll find something for Bengal Lancer on British homebrew forums.

Ah - here we go, an explanation of how IPA relates to Lancer : http://thebeerboy.blogspot.com/2010/03/fullers-ipa-and-bengal-lancer-facts.html

TLDR - IPA was created by Reg Drury at 4.8% on cask using just Goldings, Lancer is a similar beer created by John Keeling and Derek Prentice tinkering, using Goldings and Fuggles in the copper and then dry-hopping with Goldings and Target (see also the main Fuller partigyle) in the FV. They were offered a small contract to do it for a UK supermarket which fell through in the end, but then it won a blind tasting for the Swedish alcohol monopoly and so it went into production. One of the comments suggests that the Swedes are now labelling Lancer as a 5.3% IPA.

 

[Fredrik Lerigon]

Thank you Nothern Brewer, Your a star!

Will start from there and c what I come up with. I guess that my palet has changed since then but will give it a go.

Fredrik

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Thank you Nothern Brewer, Your a star!

Will start from there and c what I come up with.

No worries. I'd have a look through that main Fuller's thread to get a feel for how they do things direct from their brewbook, and then throw in more Fuggles & Goldings to get up to 47 IBU.... Zak's first article on Lancer gives some nice tasting notes, with other people giving their takes as well.

The beer is a copper-gold colour, and pin-bright in the manner that Fuller's beers tend to be, despite being bottle conditioned. The aroma is classic Fuller's - so classic that having visited the brewery, I can say that it smells like a cross between their brewhouse and hop store. If you haven't visited Fuller's, that's not very descriptive, so I'll try a bit harder. Bengal Lancer smells of spicy whole leaf hops (although they use pellets), toffee, ginger cake and ozone. On the tongue, there's an initial burst of medium-bodied malty toffee, which is slowly reeled in by a dry, spicy bitterness, finishing with bitter flourish and a faint puff of geraniums.

I like this beer a lot - it's got a lot of understated hop character which might fool people into thinking that it's lacking in hops, but when you actually pay attention to what is going on, there's a huge wallop of spicy dryness in the finish.

 

[ESBrewer]

Never had it, was it as sweet as London pride?

Compared to LP there is more hops in the IPA so it won't feel as sweet/round. But the malt, esters & residual sweetness (=their yeast) are still there making it quite balanced. Definitely an English IPA with earthy/flowery British hops and rather malty body vs American IPAs which tend have higher IBUs and more fruity aroma.

 

[Miraculix]

Compared to LP there is more hops in the IPA so it won't feel as sweet/round. But the malt, esters & residual sweetness (=their yeast) are still there making it quite balanced. Definitely an English IPA with earthy/flowery British hops and rather malty body vs American IPAs which tend have higher IBUs and more fruity aroma.

Ok, I'll try to get it somewhere and to try it myself. I love their yeast, but not the residual sweetness.... I take measures to up the attenuation when using it, but then it is just my clear favorite.
Balanced with more hops might do the trick as well for me.

 

[ESBrewer]

I think the certain sweetness in their standard gravity beers is more about the combination of [orange marmalade esters / small amounts of maltotriose / small amounts of caramelized & maillard compounds from crystal malt / only moderate hops] than a high final gravity. FG in, say, London Pride is below 1.010 (1.008-9 if I remember correctly). Of course, if this yeast for some reason stalls at 1.020 the resulting beer may feel cloyingly sweet (this has happened to some brewers who tried to imitate this type of brews). It is also quite common to use too much crystal malt. Because people often think that the certain sweetness means that FG and % of crystal must be high, which is not the case.

 

[Miraculix]

I think the certain sweetness in their standard gravity beers is more about the combination of [orange marmalade esters / small amounts of maltotriose / small amounts of caramelized & maillard compounds from crystal malt / only moderate hops] than a high final gravity. FG in, say, London Pride is below 1.010 (1.008-9 if I remember correctly). Of course, if this yeast for some reason stalls at 1.020 the resulting beer may feel cloyingly sweet (this has happened to some brewers who tried to imitate this type of brews). It is also quite common to use too much crystal malt. Because people often think that the certain sweetness means that FG and % of crystal must be high, which is not the case.

That is certainly interesting. I would have guestimated London pride at above 1.02 fg for sure. Even with 10% simple sugars, low mash and only 5% Crystal the yeast gives me only 75% attenuation. The last try was even more around 70% with all chevallier malt and 10% simple sugars.

 

[ba-brewer]

Anyone know of a vendor that sell fresh UK hops in the US or a UK vendor that sells fresh hops and will mail to the US?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Brewuk.co.uk and themaltmiller.co.uk probably have the best selection and aiui are pretty well geared up to international orders; stocksfarm.net are expensive in comparison but you are buying from the former head of the BHA and they have some experimental varieties.

 

[ba-brewer]

Thanks @Northern_Brewer. I did try themaltmiller but they said no shipping to the US, they did seem to have a good selection of 2018 hops. I will try the others.