English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Qhrumphf]

Thanks for posting that ESB recipe a few weeks ago. Its a good one.

What recipe? I don't remember posting one...

 

[Puddlethumper]

What recipe? I don't remember posting one...

Oops, my bad. That recipe was from Ihommedieu. Thought it was yours. Sorry about that.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Oops, my bad. That recipe was from Ihommedieu. Thought it was yours. Sorry about that.

No worries. I did post a Summer Ale recipe that's conditioning on polypins as we speak (probably going to tap one in a couple days).

 

[Puddlethumper]

No worries. I did post a Summer Ale recipe that's conditioning on polypins as we speak (probably going to tap one in a couple days).

I remember reading that recipe and making note that it looked very promising. (Probably what got my thinking derailed.) I'd be interested to hear how it turns out.

Cheers!

 

[JKaranka]

I read about invert vs candi for quite a while. The source of sugar does not make any difference, but what does is that (at least back in the day) the cane sugar of English invert was unrefined while the beet sugar of Belgian candi had been refined. At least I didn't find any evidence on the contrary of this and I'd be glad to be proven wrong. English brewers were quite proud of their cane sugar!

 

[Qhrumphf]

I read about invert vs candi for quite a while. The source of sugar does not make any difference, but what does is that (at least back in the day) the cane sugar of English invert was unrefined while the beet sugar of Belgian candi had been refined. At least I didn't find any evidence on the contrary of this and I'd be glad to be proven wrong. English brewers were quite proud of their cane sugar!

That's interesting, and it would certainly make sense (since the flavor difference between unrefined vs refined sugar is huge).

But end point is that regardless of the reason, Belgian candi syrup and English invert syrup are not interchangeable despite both being inverted. How big the difference is, I've never tried em side by side so I couldn't say.

 

[JKaranka]

English invert is just meant to have more random molassy crap in it to give flavour

 

[balrog]

English invert is just meant to have more random molassy crap in it to give flavour

So it would seem that invert dries out a beer a bit, while adding molasses flavor. If one were not after dryness, would one then presume one could add molasses to approach the English style better?

 

[balrog]

PuddleThumper, was this what you used?

... After some experimentation, my AG ESB recipe is as follows:

12 lbs Marris Otter (apx. 94%)
12 oz. Crystal 60 (apx. 6%)
.5 oz. Challenger or Northdown hops at 90 min.
1 oz. EKG at 60 minutes
1 oz. EKG at 10 minutes
.25 oz. EKG dry hop in secondary
Wyeast London Ale 1968 (Stir plate)
pinch of Irish Moss at 10 min.

Water/grain proportion in mash tun: 1 qt/pound
Boil for 90 minutes
Build yeast on stir plate for at least 24 hours
Aerate wort prior to adding yeast
Use a yeast nutrient
Put hops in a filter

I dough in with cold water and raise the temperature using direct heat to 154 before transferring the mash to the mash tun. I adjust the temperature to 152 and hold it for at least an hour, sometimes a little more. I mash out, and fly sparge at 168. For my last batch, my pre-boil gravity reading was 1.042.

Boil is 90 minutes or until I've hit my OG and volume. For my last batch, my OG was 1.053.

Generally I'll ferment at 67F for 7 - 10 days before taking SG readings. Then I transfer to the secondary.

I add .25 oz. EKG hops to the Secondary. Secondary is for about week and then I'll start taking SG readings. Once I've hit my number, I'll add a little gelatin and cold crash for 24 hours. Then I transfer to a keg.

I condition the beer for at least 3 weeks and carbonate at a low psi as per the style. I find the beer drinkable at this point but have noticed that it's at its optimum flavor a couple of weeks later - so I wait if I can.

The beer is nicely balanced with malt and caramel providing a background to the hops, at about 32 - 35 IBU. ABV is about 5.0. The color is a medium to dark copper. The result is an ESB with a slightly lower IBU but still within style guidelines.

And did you alter it with:

That recipe looks good, just replace some pale and reduce crystal to 2%, and chuck in the invert. The sources for Northdown and Challenger in White Shield are Michael Jackson and the WS ratebeer page. I'd still dry hop with Goldings. But yeah, remember that British beers constantly evolve, so recipes rarely stay 20 years the same without some changes in colour or hopping.

 

[Puddlethumper]

PuddleThumper, was this what you used?

And did you alter it with:

Yup. Simplified the process by going with a single infusion mash and batch sparge. Subbed 1 lb. MO for 1 lb. #2 invert.

The beer's OK but a little thin and the ABV was way higher than intended. Hence my comments a few days ago re: ratio of subbing malt for invert.

 

[lhommedieu]

I don't know if I mentioned it, but I served the beer at a party recently and it was a hit. I liked it a lot but I think in the future I'll use Target as the bittering hops, EKG for aroma.

Dryness was where I wanted it, so I don't think I'll use sugar the next time. Getting my bitter to where I want it has been a two year process. Basically I've run the gamut from making things complex to simplifying them. I've learned that with a simple recipe and a good process you can make a decent beer.

Round 2 for my decoction lager attempts. Partial conversion at the very end so I figured it should convert more during the sparge. My gravity readings are looking good so I figure this one might work out.

 

[lowtones84]

Yeah, I think bitters are supposed to be simple beers. Just meant to sip and enjoy, not to knock your socks off. Just my impression anyhow, so a simple beer calls for a simple recipe.

I just bottled my ordinary bitter. Came out much darker than expected, that Crisp Crystal 60 really does its work! It was also a 90 min boil though. Looked like a brown ale in the fermenter, and still darker than expected going through the siphon tube. We'll see how it looks in the glass. I'm sure it will be delicious either way

 

[Qhrumphf]

Tapped the first polypin of the Summer Ale I posted a number of pages back. Next time I'll cut the bittering (lower it 10 IBUs or so), but I dig it. It's very much the balance of an American Pale (on the low gravity side), but with English ingredients.

 

[Hackwood]

My favorite beer to drink has to be "Brian's Best Bitter" from BeerSmith. Tried it only because my name is also Brian and thought, "It has to be brewed"...... Love it!

 

[Puddlethumper]

I don't know if I mentioned it, but I served the beer at a party recently and it was a hit. I liked it a lot but I think in the future I'll use Target as the bittering hops, EKG for aroma.

I think you're on the right track with this recipe. The beer has been on tap for a week or so now and everyone who has tasted it likes it. But do you think a change to Target for bittering would make that much difference?

Dryness was where I wanted it, so I don't think I'll use sugar the next time.

If I'm understanding it correctly, wouldn't the use of sugar tend to dry it out more?

I enjoy this beer and will probably brew it again. I would like to see what happens when the IBU's are kicked up a notch so will increase the Challenger to a full ounce. That should yield something like 43 IBU. If I use invert I'll cut it back to a half pound or less and still reduce the MO by a full pound. It looks like I'm getting close to 80% efficiency so will need to get the base malt down to keep the OG and ABV in line.

 

[lhommedieu]

I think you're on the right track with this recipe. The beer has been on tap for a week or so now and everyone who has tasted it likes it. But do you think a change to Target for bittering would make that much difference?

If I'm understanding it correctly, wouldn't the use of sugar tend to dry it out more?

I enjoy this beer and will probably brew it again. I would like to see what happens when the IBU's are kicked up a notch so will increase the Challenger to a full ounce. That should yield something like 43 IBU. If I use invert I'll cut it back to a half pound or less and still reduce the MO by a full pound. It looks like I'm getting close to 80% efficiency so will need to get the base malt down to keep the OG and ABV in line.

My guests also enjoyed the beer and are still talking about it, lol. The funny thing is that I made a miscalculation on brew day, and it was slightly under-hopped.

Re. the substitution of Target for EKG: I'll admit that I haven't done the research necessary to figure out if it will make a difference. My take on EKG is that it's an excellent flavor and aroma hops - but it's subtle (in a good way). Perhaps a more assertive bittering hops is in order, and so I'm thinking that either Target or Challenger would fit the bill. Keep in mind, also that my personal preference is to keep the total IBU to about 32. That to me is a good balance of IBU to Malt for this style. A little higher isn't out of the range of the style, but I just like it a little lower.

Yes - adding sugar would dry it out more - but I'm happy with the level of dryness that I seem to be producing with my process.

See attached for the pilsner that I made last week - about 5 days into primary fermentation.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Re. the substitution of Target for EKG: I'll admit that I haven't done the research necessary to figure out if it will make a difference. My take on EKG is that it's an excellent flavor and aroma hops - but it's subtle (in a good way). Perhaps a more assertive bittering hops is in order, and so I'm thinking that either Target or Challenger would fit the bill.

I used the Challenger per your recipe and was very satisfied with the flavor profile of the beer. I think the malt bill is spot on. Perhaps our tastes don't differ all that much because it seems we are both looking for just a little more hop presence without a great increase in bitterness. I haven't had any personal experience with Target to compare it to Challenger, but all of Target's acids and oils are significantly higher than Challenger. At least on paper it seems it would bring more to the party than either Challenger or Northdown.

See attached for the pilsner that I made last week - about 5 days into primary fermentation.

Looking good!

 

[unionrdr]

I'm gonna have to get another Morebeer ESB E/SG kit. The color & flavor are spot on, & the flavor balance between malt & hops is just too good. At about two months past bottling, it's balance is still great & it has a bit of crispness on the back. Oh yeah...

 

[Puddlethumper]

I'm gonna have to get another Morebeer ESB E/SG kit. The color & flavor are spot on, & the flavor balance between malt & hops is just too good. At about two months past bottling, it's balance is still great & it has a bit of crispness on the back. Oh yeah...

Do you remember the recipe?

 

[unionrdr]

Here's what I got on the brew sheet Morebeer gives with the kit;
8oz crystal 40L
8oz honey malt
4oz special roast
7lbs ultra light LME
1oz northern brewer @ 60 minutes
1oz east kent golding @ 10 minutes
1oz east kent golding @ 5 minutes
1/2 Whirlfloc tablet last 5 minutes of boil
Re-hydrated Safale S-04
Steeped grains @ 160F for 30 minutes after crushing in my Barley Crusher grain mill @ .039". Dunk sparged in 2.5 gallons spring water @ 170F.Added 2.07 pounds of the LME to the boil. Hop addition times as stated. Re-hydrated S-04 in 400mL spring water @ 89.3F 30 minutes.OG 1.060 down to FG 1.012 in 10 days flat!Ferment temp got to 73.4 maximum.
Est OG- 1.045-1.049
Suggested ferment temperature-68F
Est SRM-11
Est IBU-39-42

Thought I had a better pic. Beer is clearer than pictured here. Would've had better head if I hadn't used a whole Whirlfloc tablet...

 

[Puddlethumper]

Just finished brewing another batch of the ordinary bitters that has been a hit around here. Added a little twist with 3/4 oz. Bramling Cross at flameout for a 30 minute steep. The recipe is pretty simple and goes as follows:

8.75 lb. Maris Otter (Crisp)
5 oz. Medium British Crystal (OK to sub Crystal 60/80)
1 oz. Black Patent

90 min. single infusion mash @ 151F
15 min. batch sparge @ 165F
7.0 gal. pre-boil volume

75 min. boil
1 oz. East Kent Goldings - 75 min.
1 oz. East Kent Goldings - 10 min.
3/4 oz. Bramling Cross @ flameout for 30 min. steep

S-04, Burton Ale or London Ale yeast (I used London Ale)

Ferment 2 wks @ 68-70F

This recipe has become a go-to for ordinary bitters around here. The only thing I did different with this batch was the addition of the Bramling Cross hops. I think the black currant note will fit very nicely with the flavors in this beer.

Cheers!

 

[lowtones84]

Sounds nice! I'm guessing the 1 oz. black patent is just for a little color?

Brewing my first English Brown Porter for the fall/winter months today. If anyone has any input, too bad because I'm starting to heat water very soon! Although, I do have an oz. of Bramling Cross around if anyone wants to convince me to use it instead of Fuggles...

*FOUR GALLON BATCH* Est OG: 1.056 (Just above BJCP range. Oh well.) Est IBU: 31

6 lb. Crisp Maris Otter
10 oz. UK Brown malt (Crisp)
10 oz. UK Crystal 60 (Crisp)
6 oz. UK Chocolate malt (Crisp)
8 oz. Flaked Barley

Single infusion Mash @ 154, Mash out @ 165-170

.35 oz. Target @ 60 (it's what I have left )
.25 oz. Fuggles @ 60 (to make up a bit)
.5 oz. Fuggles @ 10

WLP 002

I can't change too much at this point, but what do you guys think?

 

[JKaranka]

Porter looks good. I made something similar (including strength) but without crystal and with two types of sugar. Had half a pound each of brown and chocolate malt.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Sounds nice! I'm guessing the 1 oz. black patent is just for a little color?

Brewing my first English Brown Porter for the fall/winter months today. If anyone has any input, too bad because I'm starting to heat water very soon! Although, I do have an oz. of Bramling Cross around if anyone wants to convince me to use it instead of Fuggles...

Porter looks great!

Yes re: the black patent. Just gives it the color I think is right for this style.

And re: the Bramling Cross, I've only used it as a late addition at 1/2 ounce or so to bring some black currant notes to the party. I got started using it when I came across a recipe for a porter in a brewing book published in the UK. Hooked on it now for either porters or bitters. I can't think of another style that it would fit though.

Hope your porter turns out great!

Cheers!

 

[balrog]

So where does one get really good descriptions of the bittering, flavoring, aroma-ing descriptions for all these hops? You say currant for Bramling Cross while the online descriptions seem to include that and "spicey" which kinda turns me off.

 

[nutty_gnome]

My favorite beer to drink has to be "Brian's Best Bitter" from BeerSmith. Tried it only because my name is also Brian and thought, "It has to be brewed"...... Love it!

Question: Do you use the Ultra hops as listed in BeerSmith?

 

[JKaranka]

Bramling Cross has some blackcurrant similar to Brewers' Gold. Spice is good, like Saaz and Fuggles. So many people rate Bramling X highly that you can chuck some late without a worry.

 

[lowtones84]

Well, no Bramling Cross this time, but it just so happens that I picked up enough specialty grain to brew another porter soon

This was one of my smoothest brew days yet. Sitting at 60F right now with the yeast pitched, waiting for it to slowly rise in my swamp cooler before hitting it with some more ice bottles and a fan. Since I was drinking while brewing, 8 oz. of home made invert may or may not have made its way into the boil

 

[Puddlethumper]

So where does one get really good descriptions of the bittering, flavoring, aroma-ing descriptions for all these hops? You say currant for Bramling Cross while the online descriptions seem to include that and "spicey" which kinda turns me off.

I've run across a couple of charts that have been somewhat helpful. Although the essential acids and oils are scientifically based, the descriptions of the flavors/aromas are, as you have noticed, pretty subjective. And much depends on how much a person uses and when it is introduced to the boil. I suspect Bramling Cross is an example of this.

With alpha acids in the 5-7% range Bramling Cross is described in the charts as "dual purpose but mainly bittering". I'll wager that this is where it gets the description as "spicy". I know from experience that when used in lower amounts and at the end of the boil the bittering and spiciness doesn't come through. Instead it imparts a very pleasing black currant note. I find this flavor quite agreeable in porters and bitters.

This is part of what makes this hobby so challenging and interesting. After many batches brewed and with the help of books and charts and personal experience I think I'm getting a handle on a few varieties of hops. Only a hundred or so varieties left to go!

Cheers!

 

[lhommedieu]

Re. Black patent malt: Gordon Strong suggests that you can add it at the end of the mash (i.e. just before the sparge) if you want to add color without the flavor - but at your percentages I don't think it really makes a difference.

I've done some cursory research using the same kinds of hops lists and descriptions that you reference above, as well as dipping into "For the Love of Hops," that is available on Kindle.

Keeping in mind that there are other factors that contribute to flavor and the perception of bitterness, notably the kind of yeast used, I've decided to stick to Wyeast 1968 (London Ale) yeast for the time being as I like the kinds of fruity esters that it produces. So, with Marris Otter, Crystal 60, and Wyeast 1968 as the backbone for an English Bitter, I am going to propose for myself the following experiment with respect to some bittering/flavor/aroma characteristics: That is to say that the first hop mentioned will be added at first boil and at 60 minutes (I do 90 minute boils btw), and the second hop mentioned towards the end of the boil and at flame-out.

EKG/EKG
Fuggle/EKG
Challenger/EKG
Target/EKG

I believe that the changes in bittering hops represents a movement from relatively lower Alpha to higher Alpha, and I am interested in "testing" the results.