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English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

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What's your efficiency? My guess is this is for fairly high efficiency. Almost 7 lbs of grain plus a lb of sugar, I'd be about where he is. Without running numbers I'd say a little under but not much.

Edit: I just ran the numbers. My system puts me at 1.051, and my brewhouse efficiency is about 80%.
 
I had White Shield last month. Hoppy and caramelly at the same time. The #2 invert might give it some colour and honey. Fairly refreshing but a tad heavy somehow. Lovely aroma.
 
What's your efficiency? My guess is this is for fairly high efficiency. Almost 7 lbs of grain plus a lb of sugar, I'd be about where he is. Without running numbers I'd say a little under but not much.

Edit: I just ran the numbers. My system puts me at 1.051, and my brewhouse efficiency is about 80%.

Interesting outcome here. Unfortunately I haven't taken the time or effort to calculate my efficiency. I've just run it at 75% (nominal) and have turned out good beer. Probably should get around to addressing that.

But with Brewtarget set at 80% efficiency this recipe still yields an OG of only 1.039. Perhaps the problem lies in Brewtarget. What are you using? Here are the rest of the numbers Brewtarget came up with and I'd be interested to know what differences you found:

OG 1.039
FG 1.011
ABV 3.6%
IBU 54.0
SRM 5.5
 
I had White Shield last month. Hoppy and caramelly at the same time. The #2 invert might give it some colour and honey. Fairly refreshing but a tad heavy somehow. Lovely aroma.

This White Shield recipe is coming up with a level of IBU's similar to American IPA's and a bit hoppy for my tastes. So, since you are there and I am here, if you were to brew a classic ESB that you felt typified the best of English beers what recipe would you follow?
 
Interesting outcome here. Unfortunately I haven't taken the time or effort to calculate my efficiency. I've just run it at 75% (nominal) and have turned out good beer. Probably should get around to addressing that.

But with Brewtarget set at 80% efficiency this recipe still yields an OG of only 1.039. Perhaps the problem lies in Brewtarget. What are you using? Here are the rest of the numbers Brewtarget came up with and I'd be interested to know what differences you found:

OG 1.039
FG 1.011
ABV 3.6%
IBU 54.0
SRM 5.5

I use BeerSmith. I tried using BrewTarget a while ago and kept getting results like that, figuring it was a configuration error and then not wanting to work it out.

Est Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.006 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.8 %
Bitterness: 75.0 IBUs
Est Color: 9.2 SRM

That's assuming 32 SRM for your #2 invert. That's also a default mash of 150. In reality I'd mash this higher.
 
I use BeerSmith. I tried using BrewTarget a while ago and kept getting results like that, figuring it was a configuration error and then not wanting to work it out.

Est Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.006 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.8 %
Bitterness: 75.0 IBUs
Est Color: 9.2 SRM

That's assuming 32 SRM for your #2 invert. That's also a default mash of 150. In reality I'd mash this higher.

Thanks for the numbers. The recipe calls for a mash in of 3.75 gal. @ 140F then gradual increase to 151F and hold for 1.5 hrs. Then top off with cold water to 5.5 gal. finished.

I haven't used this technique before (sans sparge) but must assume it works. It does tie a knot in my usual ideas of how to figure the finished product. Your numbers reveal an IBU level that would require a fresh box of Kleenex for me so I'm thinking this may not be the best choice for my taste-buds.

And I believe my #2 invert came in closer to 50-60 SRM. (Bifocals notwithstanding.) :)

Looks like I may need to change to Beersmith.

Thanks again.
 
I guess IBU for this one has dropped over the centuries. From the bottle I had I'd expect 45-50 IBU with very little late additions relative to the early ones. Don't they mention Challenger and Northdown? That gives away a recipe change in the 70s / 80s. If I was recreating a 1880s version I'd just use pale malt, invert and Goldings.
 
I guess IBU for this one has dropped over the centuries. From the bottle I had I'd expect 45-50 IBU with very little late additions relative to the early ones. Don't they mention Challenger and Northdown? That gives away a recipe change in the 70s / 80s. If I was recreating a 1880s version I'd just use pale malt, invert and Goldings.

This recipe calls for 2 oz. Fuggles and 1 oz. EKG for 90 min. Then a half ounce of EKG at flameout and steep for 15 min. Another 1/4 oz. dryhopped. The IBU's Beersmith is coming up with are up there with the latest American iterations of an IPA. My understanding was that English IPA's weren't anywhere near that bitter. Am I mistaken in this?
 
I'll rephrase my question to those who are following this thread.....If you were to create what you considered the quintessential English beer (IPA, ESB, Mild, Brown, etc.) what would you make?

I am especially interested in recipes that call for invert sugar since I understand it is an integral part of true British beers and I did go to the trouble of making some. :)

Thanks in advance for your ideas and suggestions!

Cheers! :mug:
 
This recipe calls for 2 oz. Fuggles and 1 oz. EKG for 90 min. Then a half ounce of EKG at flameout and steep for 15 min. Another 1/4 oz. dryhopped. The IBU's Beersmith is coming up with are up there with the latest American iterations of an IPA. My understanding was that English IPA's weren't anywhere near that bitter. Am I mistaken in this?

I'd thought the same, but reading some of Patinson's historical recipes has completely blown that idea out of my head. He admits the hopping isn't always available in historical versions so he's had to guess a lot of the time, but that based on traditional practice at the time, the IBUs could have been very very high historically.

As for White Shield, I've never had it so I can't offer an opinion on what it actually tastes like.
 
I don't know about quintessential-it's a big country-but at least in London & surrounding areas, they drink a lot of bitter in the pubs. So some variation of bitter-ordinary, special or strong (esb). Depends on what you like. Most pub bitters are pretty low alcohol (~3.5abv).
 
I'm also weary of hop-forward IPA's. Lately I've been drinking German lagers with a nice balance of malt and hops, and will brew my first Pilsner in a couple of weeks. After some experimentation, my AG ESB recipe is as follows:

12 lbs Marris Otter (apx. 94%)
12 oz. Crystal 60 (apx. 6%)
.5 oz. Challenger or Northdown hops at 90 min.
1 oz. EKG at 60 minutes
1 oz. EKG at 10 minutes
.25 oz. EKG dry hop in secondary
Wyeast London Ale 1968 (Stir plate)
pinch of Irish Moss at 10 min.

I've taken several suggestions over the past couple of years from members of the board, and have found that they work for me:

Water/grain proportion in mash tun: 1 qt/pound
Boil for 90 minutes
Build yeast on stir plate for at least 24 hours
Aerate wort prior to adding yeast
Use a yeast nutrient
Put hops in a filter

I dough in with cold water and raise the temperature using direct heat to 154 before transferring the mash to the mash tun. I adjust the temperature to 152 and hold it for at least an hour, sometimes a little more. I mash out, and fly sparge at 168. For my last batch, my pre-boil gravity reading was 1.042.

Boil is 90 minutes or until I've hit my OG and volume. For my last batch, my OG was 1.053.

Generally I'll ferment at 67F for 7 - 10 days before taking SG readings. Then I transfer to the secondary.

I add .25 oz. EKG hops to the Secondary. Secondary is for about week and then I'll start taking SG readings. Once I've hit my number, I'll add a little gelatin and cold crash for 24 hours. Then I transfer to a keg.

I condition the beer for at least 3 weeks and carbonate at a low psi as per the style. I find the beer drinkable at this point but have noticed that it's at its optimum flavor a couple of weeks later - so I wait if I can.

The beer is nicely balanced with malt and caramel providing a background to the hops, at about 32 - 35 IBU. ABV is about 5.0. The color is a medium to dark copper. The result is an ESB with a slightly lower IBU but still within style guidelines.
 
The beer is nicely balanced with malt and caramel providing a background to the hops, at about 32 - 35 IBU. ABV is about 5.0. The color is a medium to dark copper. The result is an ESB with a slightly lower IBU but still within style guidelines.

Thank you for that recipe and the great instructions. It looks very do-able with supplies I have on hand right now. Do you have any thoughts on incorporating invert sugar into this recipe?
 
That recipe looks good, just replace some pale and reduce crystal to 2%, and chuck in the invert. The sources for Northdown and Challenger in White Shield are Michael Jackson and the WS ratebeer page. I'd still dry hop with Goldings. But yeah, remember that British beers constantly evolve, so recipes rarely stay 20 years the same without some changes in colour or hopping.
 
That recipe looks good, just replace some pale and reduce crystal to 2%, and chuck in the invert. The sources for Northdown and Challenger in White Shield are Michael Jackson and the WS ratebeer page. I'd still dry hop with Goldings. But yeah, remember that British beers constantly evolve, so recipes rarely stay 20 years the same without some changes in colour or hopping.

Thanks. This recipe may be exactly what I've been looking for. Will put it in the rotation and brew up a batch within the next week or so and report back here on the outcome.

Cheers!
:mug:
 
I love me some UK brews! Pale ales, browns, reds, porters, stouts, etc. don't know why but I do. Bitters, ESB's, Milds... I could drink them all day. I have a Pale ale and an Irish red fermenting now and recently finished 5 gal of the best British Brown ale that came out great.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
I dough in with cold water and raise the temperature using direct heat to 154 before transferring the mash to the mash tun. I adjust the temperature to 152 and hold it for at least an hour, sometimes a little more. I mash out, and fly sparge at 168. For my last batch, my pre-boil gravity reading was 1.042.

I haven't used this technique and may try it with this batch. What impact would you expect if a person were to go with a single infusion mash at 152 and then batch sparge? Would it make a significant difference in the finished product?
 
Now that I have a pound or so of #2 Invert sugar I'm getting ready to make my first foray into traditional English brewing. I'm thinking a batch of Worthington's White Shield IPA (clone) might make a good choice because of our dry and hot weather here. I ran across the following recipe posted on HBT back in 2006 (not much else out there right now):

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/worthington-white-shield-copy-5416/

I understand that WLP013 and White Labs London Ale yeasts are very close to the original Worthington's strains. My remaining concern with this recipe is that I don't trust the OG values he is suggesting. I ran this through BrewTarget and got a very low 1.033 OG which is far below guidelines for the style. Boosting the pale malt to 9.5 lbs brings it up to 1.047 which is much closer to style but still short. Any ideas or suggestions on this issue?

I'm also looking to emulate the White Shield, so you might want to have a look at this thread I started last month:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/worthington-white-shield-clone-479109/

The ingredient list seems pretty accurate, based on the large research I have made but proportions, temp and technique might be adjusted. This beer is 13 SRM and 40 IBU, so it might help if you want to precisly clone it.
 
The ingredient list seems pretty accurate, based on the large research I have made but proportions, temp and technique might be adjusted. This beer is 13 SRM and 40 IBU, so it might help if you want to precisly clone it.

Great link and I appreciate the work you've done with this. I assume you've brewed up a batch according to this recipe? Were you happy with it?
 
Thank you for that recipe and the great instructions. It looks very do-able with supplies I have on hand right now. Do you have any thoughts on incorporating invert sugar into this recipe?

No problem. There are plenty of brewers on the forum with more knowledge and experience making ales than me, and my directions are merely a compendium of what I learned from them. Look at posts by ajf, for example. He always has something valuable to say. Terry Foster's Pale Ale is a nice book about the history of the style. It also has some recipes in the back.

When I started to make ales I worried excessively about complexity and my first attempts at making English bitter often featured at least three different malts and hops. I've since learned that a simple recipe and clean technique will take me where I want to go.

Many agree that a malt bill that contains a British 2-row pale malt and one of British Crystal Malts makes a good bitter. You can play with the amount of grain to make a milder or stronger beer, but I've been advised not to let the percentage of Crystal Malt go above 7.5%. I use 94% Marris Otter because I think it creates a rich flavor, and 6% Crystal 60 because it gives my beer a lovely copper color, but others might like a paler beer. In that case, drop down to Crystal 40 or use less Crystal 60. As long as your malt and hops are balanced according to the style, you're golden. A SMaSH using just British 2-row pale malt and EKG would be a great summer beer, imho. To each his own.

If you're producing beers that seem to produce a heavier, sweeter flavor profile than you like, adding about 8 oz. of sugar will produce a drier beer. You can also used flaked corn for the same purpose. I don't do either, because I'm still learning the basics at this point and want to keep my additions to the minimum.

You can also play with lowering the mash time and extending it. I'll sometimes mash in at 152F and mash for 90 minutes if I have the time. If my mash temperature drops down to 150F. I don't worry about it.

I mash out by adding enough hot water to the mash and stirring until I hit 168F. I fly sparge but haven't invested in the equipment that I would like. I simply use a gravity system with a long piece of high-temperature silicon tube attached to the lauter tun above and coiled once abound the top of the grain bed, leaving about a inch of hot liquid above the grain bed throughout the sparge. I try to sparge for up to an hour, heating the sparge water as needed. I'll quit when my last runnings hit 1.010.

You can do something similar using a batch sparge and you'll produce great beer. I don't really think it makes much of a difference. Some may say that fly sparging produces more efficiency, but I don't worry about efficiency past a certain point - that's my wife's job.

With respect to doughing in with cold water and raising the temperature using direct heat: this is something that I learned from someone on the forum. He uses a tri-decoction method for German pilsners and bocks, and uses direct heat for both the mash tun and decoction pot. It's a great method that I plan to start using when I'm done travelling this month. Since I'm brand-new to the method, I thought I'd start by practicing the mash-tun skill set (i.e., bringing my mash to a certain temperature by direct heat and stirring - and without scorching it, lol). It worked great. I put a digital thermometer through a silicon stopper and attached it to a stainless steel rod, and stirred using a stainless steel spackle stirrer attached to a 1/2" drill. The next step was to pour the mash into the mash tun and adjust the final temperature with hot water (I didn't need to add hot water) - no problem. Hold the rod with one other hand while your stirring, and stir around it without hitting it (like I did) or you'll send your rod flying out of the tun like a missile. Now that I'm somewhat competent at this I'm going to try it using a mash tun and decoction pot as per the tri-decoction method for German beers.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/p403x403/10500463_609776609119494_685217336398662868_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/p403x403/10464228_609777692452719_2843150153800973145_n.jpg

I used a Blichmann tun with a bottom plate for sparging - but only because, after drilling a hole for a thermometer in a 10 gallon Rubbermaid water cooler, and attaching a ball valve on the bottom, I forgot get an adapter for the bazooka screen. A water cooler will work will for the simple infusion mashes that a bitter requires.

Search for Foster's water profile for pale ales; I have pretty soft water here in Long Island, so a Tbsp. of Gypsum is all that I need to bring my numbers in line.
 
Great link and I appreciate the work you've done with this. I assume you've brewed up a batch according to this recipe? Were you happy with it?

Not Yet. It's planned to be brewed in a couple of batches (with minor adjustments). One thing I know about this beer is that it uses specifically Halcyon malt and equal amounts of Fuggles and Challenger for bittering. I've had this beer a few times when travelling but it's not available where I live. If I could get my hands on a bottle and check the final gravity with my hydrometer I think I could get closer to the real thing.
 
I think my next brew will be a Summer Lightning clone recipe I found online. It's pale for an English bitter, but it's a pretty popular beer in the UK. It's also about as simple a recipe as you are likely to find - practically a SMaSH brew. The original beer is a pale, fairly light tasting but strong and hoppy summer ale.

Hopback Summer Lightning Clone
5.5 gallon batch
OG: 1.055
FG: 1.016
IBU: 44.0
SRM: 4.8

11 lb Maris Otter : mash at 152F for 60 minutes
1.6 oz Challenger : 60 minutes
0.5 oz Goldings : 10 minutes
0.5 oz Goldings : Steep/Whirlpool/Hopback
1.0 oz Goldings : Dry Hop

English ale yeast of your choice. Higher attenuating might be better. Adjust flavor and aroma hop additions to your taste - this is meant to be hop forward. Carb and serve as for cask ales, although it can stand to be a little colder than usual, as it's meant as a summer beer.

I guess this is also a good base for starting substitute in some US hop character, which some UK breweries are now doing to change things up - I had a Cascade pale ESB on cask last time I was in the UK!
 
Yeah summer lightning is considered to be the granddaddy of the current mass of golden ales we have in the uk, I think it dates from the mid to late 1980s.

It's quite reserved for golden ales now, although it's still better than quite a few of the ones that are marketed to entice lager drinkers - by lager drinkers I mean our carling/tennents/fosters etc drinkers who wouldn't touch anything dark. These tend to be rather bland

Most now use new world hops and I think are our equivalents of IPAs in the US - almost all breweries make them, often a number of them and they tend to be very hop forward

For the ones I make I tend to start around 1.042-1.044 or so and about 40IBUs, almost always use some wheat too and a clean yeast.
 
Yeah summer lightning is considered to be the granddaddy of the current mass of golden ales we have in the uk, I think it dates from the mid to late 1980s.

For the ones I make I tend to start around 1.042-1.044 or so and about 40IBUs, almost always use some wheat too and a clean yeast.

I make an APA that has about the same color, IBU's and wheat addition but based on American 2 row and strictly American hops (Horizon, Cascade, Mt. Hood & Willamette). This recipe looks interesting because, although the numbers are very similar, I would think the finished beer would showcase the difference between the UK ingredients vs the American. I may put a batch of this in the rotation here just to see how it turns out.
 
I think my next brew will be a Summer Lightning clone recipe I found online. It's pale for an English bitter, but it's a pretty popular beer in the UK. It's also about as simple a recipe as you are likely to find - practically a SMaSH brew. The original beer is a pale, fairly light tasting but strong and hoppy summer ale.

Hopback Summer Lightning Clone
5.5 gallon batch
OG: 1.055
FG: 1.016
IBU: 44.0
SRM: 4.8

11 lb Maris Otter : mash at 152F for 60 minutes
1.6 oz Challenger : 60 minutes
0.5 oz Goldings : 10 minutes
0.5 oz Goldings : Steep/Whirlpool/Hopback
1.0 oz Goldings : Dry Hop

English ale yeast of your choice. Higher attenuating might be better. Adjust flavor and aroma hop additions to your taste - this is meant to be hop forward. Carb and serve as for cask ales, although it can stand to be a little colder than usual, as it's meant as a summer beer.

I guess this is also a good base for starting substitute in some US hop character, which some UK breweries are now doing to change things up - I had a Cascade pale ESB on cask last time I was in the UK!

Yeah summer lightning is considered to be the granddaddy of the current mass of golden ales we have in the uk, I think it dates from the mid to late 1980s.

It's quite reserved for golden ales now, although it's still better than quite a few of the ones that are marketed to entice lager drinkers - by lager drinkers I mean our carling/tennents/fosters etc drinkers who wouldn't touch anything dark. These tend to be rather bland

Most now use new world hops and I think are our equivalents of IPAs in the US - almost all breweries make them, often a number of them and they tend to be very hop forward

For the ones I make I tend to start around 1.042-1.044 or so and about 40IBUs, almost always use some wheat too and a clean yeast.

I'd planned on doing a "Summer Ale" or "Golden Ale" or whatever you want to call it in a week or two. I'm going a little smaller and a little bigger on the late hops. Also tossing in some wheat. So it's good to know I'm on the right track.


6 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 80.0 %
1 lbs Wheat - White Malt (Briess) (2.3 SRM) Grain 2 13.3 %
8.0 oz Biscuit (Dingemans) (22.5 SRM) Grain 3 6.7 %
0.50 oz Challenger [8.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 19.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [7.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 9.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [7.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 3.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Challenger [8.90 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [7.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg West Yorkshire Ale (Wyeast Labs #1469) Yeast 9 -

Est Original Gravity: 1.045 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.4 %
Bitterness: 31.9 IBUs
Est Color: 5.3 SRM

I'll be using my house English yeast (1469), repitched. So it's not a clean yeast, nor a high attenuator. So I'll be mashing on the fairly low side and fermenting on the cool side (maybe 64). At 149, BeerSmith gives me 1.011, but it'll probably more like 1.009. I might up the IBUs by 10 or so, then.

Never done one before, so glad to know I'm in the right general vicinity. The Biscuit may not be traditional, but I love the character of that malt, and it goes oh so well with the MO in my opinion. I use it in most of my beers. Hah.
 
Golden ales are definitively modern (although they just bring the pale back into pale ales). As modern beers, most British golden ales also use American hops in good measure (I've had plenty of commercial ones with Cluster, Cascade, Willamette, Citra, Chinook, Columbus, etc.), although they often end up using some of the more exciting European hops instead (Styrian Goldings, Saaz, Brewer's Gold, etc.). When I've made them I've ended up with combinations of Pale Malt, Lager Malt, Wheat Malt, Munich Malt, Flaked Maize and Crystal. Some of the ones have been 40/40/20 Pale, Lager & Flaked Maize, 80/15/5 Pale, Wheat & Munich.

One of the nicest ones that I get around here often is Otley O2 Croeso. Straw in colour, very floral and citrusy. If I had to guess I'd say it has late additions and dry hopping with Cluster, Cascade and Styrian Goldings. Not very bitter for 4.2% abv, probably just around 30-35 IBU.
 
Btw, Puddlethumper, don't get distracted and aim at that White Shield-ish clone! :D

LOL, thanks! And I've already decided against it because of the high IBU. Some of the discussions about ESB recipes and this latest discussion about golden ales are more to my taste.

In fact that recipe for an ESB that Ihommedieu has worked on will probably be #2 in my plan for next beers. Will reduce the MO and crystal and add 1 lb. of invert #2 and still hit almost identical numbers. Will also go with a single infusion mash at 152F (90 min) and batch sparge for the sake of simplicity of execution. I'm looking forward to that brewday. :D

I appreciate your continued interest and support! Good luck with your next brew.

Cheers! :mug:
 
Just wanted to take a minute and post an update to this thread.

I brewed a batch of ESB following the recipe Ihommedieu suggested with a couple of minor changes to make it more authentic to recipes I suspect we would find in England/Wales. I dropped the MO to 10.5 lbs. and cut the medium crystal to 4 oz. In their place I added a pound of invert sugar #2 with 10 minutes left in the boil. The OG went through the roof at 1.068! Next time I'll cut way back on the MO. (I really do need to take the time to figure my brewhouse efficiency. :( )

Today I racked it over to secondary and SG was at 1.013 and the beer in the sample jar was delicious. I plan to let this one condition for a couple of weeks before kegging. But it's going to try my patience to wait on this one.

:D
 
I love English hops & malts,but only dabbled in bitters. I liked the beer I made with the Cooper's English bitter the North American distributor gave me once. Trying to read my old notes;
1 can Cooper's English biter, International series
500g plain light Munton's DME
(I used .5oz Hallertauer hops @ 20 & 10 mins),but EKG would've been better
I was told by the same fella that 500g more DME & another ounce of the EKG @ 10 or so is supposed to make it similar to Fuller's if I remember the old E-Mail right. the recipe is dated 7/30/11. The ESB E/SG kit from Morebeer has a very nice balance between hop bitterness/flavor & malt flavors. Couldn't find a PM kit for ESB's to try more of'em. So I tried the Morebeer ESB kit first.
7 lbs ultra light malt extract
8 ozs crystal 40L
8 ozs honey malt
4 ozs special roast
1 oz northern brewer @ 60 mins
1 oz EKG @ 10 minutes
1 oz EKG @ 5 minutes
I rehydrated S-04 in 400mL warm water @ 89.3F for 30 minutes. Fermented & clearing in 10 days flat! Since i prefer PM, I was thinking of replacing about half the extract with some British base malt. Haven't decided on it yet. But this is an easy drinking, well balanced beer for a kit. Converting it to pb/pm biab will be great if I get it right. Here's a pic of it;

And the Cooper's EB;

I really need a better spot for beer porn...
 
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